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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19718560 - 03/19/14 01:08 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They went above those limits.  I am 12 for 12.



Your imagination doesn't make you right.  You're 0 for 12 because I am always able to support my position.  The CIA agrees with me:

Quote:

CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves

CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.









Let me highlight something for you.  Where does that say how many Russian troops are in the Crimea?
Quote:





The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said



  That quote is two weeks old.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If you don't care about Chechnya why do you care about Crimea?  Or are you just a troll?



I don't care about Crimea.  I care about the US wasting $billions on something we have no reason to get involved in.




Who said anything about spending US money?  I just said Putin is a scumbag and we should actt accordingly.  Sanction the fuck out of him and stop betraying our Polish and other Eastern European friends by denying them a missile shield we had promised.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
How do you know?  That sham election?



It was well known before the vote ever happened what the outcome would be.  Every paper predicted it.  That's why the US Government was quick to denounce it.



Every paper predicted it because every paper has seen how elections go in the Soviet.  The option to remain in the Ukraine wasn't even on the ballot.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-ukraine-crisis-referendum-idUSBREA2A1GR20140311

Quote:

(Reuters) - Sunday's vote in Ukraine's Crimea is being officially billed as a chance for the peninsula's peoples to decide fairly and freely their future - but in fact there is no room on the ballot paper for voting "Nyet" to control by Russia.

The Crimean voter will have the right to choose only one of two options in the March 16 referendum which the region's pro-Russian leadership, protected by Russian forces, announced earlier this month.

According to a format of the ballot paper, published on the parliament's website, the first question will ask: "Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?"

The second asks: "Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?"

At first glance, the second option seems to offer the prospects of the peninsula remaining within Ukraine.

But the 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from doing that.

This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia.

With the pro-Russian assembly already saying it wants to return Crimea to Russia, this second option only offers a slightly longer route to shifting the peninsula back under Russian control, analysts say.

The option of asking people if they wish to stick with the status quo - in which Crimea enjoys autonomy but remains part of Ukraine - is not on offer.

Any mark in one of the boxes is regarded as a "Da" vote. Ballot papers will be regarded as spoiled if a voter fills in both boxes or indeed does not fill in either.

Those who stay away will also not influence the outcome, since the result will simply be based on the option preferred by a majority of those voting.




It was a sham election and only the most craven fool would even begin to argue otherwise.


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19718647 - 03/19/14 01:26 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Where does that say how many Russian troops are in the Crimea?
Quote:


The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said






Looks like you answered your own question - well below 25,000.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That quote is two weeks old.



You said I was lying.  I showed I wasn't.  Where's your evidence that the number is above 25,000?  :popcorn:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
stop betraying our Polish and other Eastern European friends by denying them a missile shield we had promised.



Ah, now the truth comes out as to why you are support the illegal coup.  Keep sucking that Obama cock.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Every paper predicted it because every paper has seen how elections go in the Soviet.  The option to remain in the Ukraine wasn't even on the ballot.



Already discussed above.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19718720 - 03/19/14 01:42 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Where does that say how many Russian troops are in the Crimea?
Quote:


The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said






Looks like you answered your own question - well below 25,000.




That is your two week old link.  They also already had troops there. 
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That quote is two weeks old.



You said I was lying.  I showed I wasn't.  Where's your evidence that the number is above 25,000?  :popcorn:




Yo didn't show anything of the kind.  Do you think 25,000 soldiers could overwhelm the Ukrainian army? 
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
stop betraying our Polish and other Eastern European friends by denying them a missile shield we had promised.



Ah, now the truth comes out as to why you are support the illegal coup.  Keep sucking that Obama cock.




:facepalm:

Obama is the one who cancelled them.  because Putin was his goomba and he and Hillary wanted a reset.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Every paper predicted it because every paper has seen how elections go in the Soviet.  The option to remain in the Ukraine wasn't even on the ballot.



Already discussed above.




Sham election.  Own it.


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19718977 - 03/19/14 02:40 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That is your two week old link.  They also already had troops there. 



I showed you CIA evidence that troop numbers are under 25,000.  You claimed I was lying. Burden of Proof falls on you, my friend.  Let's see it. :popcorn:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Sham election.  Own it.



Call it what you want.  The Crimean people overwhelmingly support joining Russia, the referendum backs this up, and you can't find evidence to show otherwise.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/19/14 02:48 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19719337 - 03/19/14 03:44 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/17/221514/questions-surround-crimea-referendum.html

Quote:

the Ukrainian capital Monday was all about Sunday’s referendum in Crimea, which saw a close to unanimous vote in favor of the Black Sea peninsula seceding from Ukraine and becoming part of Russia.

Officially, the joining-Russia option on the ballot attracted a healthy 97 percent support from the 83 percent of registered voters in Crimea who made it to the polls. The most repeated tidbit was the voter turnout in Sevastopol, long a pro-Russian bastion, where a reported 123 percent of registered voters are said to have cast ballots.

Ukrainian news reports said that all one needed to vote was a passport, and it didn’t have to be a Ukrainian one. One reporter from Kiev showed his Russian passport and was handed a ballot and allowed to vote. This raised questions in Kiev if perhaps the Russian soldiers and Russian paramilitary occupying the area since late February had been allowed to cast votes.

It also raised eyebrows, because while an estimated 58 percent of the Crimean population is known to be ethnic Russian and very pro-Russia, the remaining 42 percent are not thought to be similarly smitten. Ukrainian opinion polls over the last decade have consistently shown Crimea to be more pro-Russian and in favor of secession than any other region of Ukraine, but previous polls had shown consistently that those favoring splitting from Ukraine and joining Russia numbered about 40 percent.

And while there were differences between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian sides on how extensively Crimean Tatars, the region’s traditional ethnic group, boycotted the vote, it was clear that many did. The low estimate said that 60 percent of Tatars, who make up about 12 percent of the total Crimean population, refused to vote. Pro-Ukraine advocates insisted 99 percent of Tatars boycotted. In either case, the admitted absence of such a large voting bloc raised further questions about the turnout numbers.

And many were asking the questions. Monday, even ears unfamiliar with the Ukrainian language couldn’t help but overhear the phrase “referendum” being muttered by pedestrians, in eye-rolling tones of voice. And, of course, the talk wasn’t limited to the underground shopping malls or the Maidan square protest crowds of Kiev.

Vitali Klitschko, a prominent Ukrainian member of Parliament and the former world heavyweight boxing champion, charged that those who favored secession had “sold out” Ukraine. He added that history shows that Crimea under Russian control puts Crimean Tatars in grave danger.

“We are afraid of ethnic cleansing,” he said at a news conference near the Maidan, or Kiev’s Independence Square.

Crimean Tatars have repeatedly pointed out their 200 years of repression under Russian rule and call former Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s forced relocation in 1944 of Tatars to other parts of the Soviet Union a “genocide.”

Ukrainian Minister of Defense Ihor Tenyukh said at an earlier press conference that Ukraine would never accept the results of referendum.

“Crimea was, is and will always be our territory,” he said.





Sham election


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19719385 - 03/19/14 03:55 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That is your two week old link.  They also already had troops there. 



I showed you CIA evidence that troop numbers are under 25,000.  You claimed I was lying. Burden of Proof falls on you, my friend.  Let's see it. :popcorn:




You didn't how any evidence of the kind.  You said that Brennan said the Russians could have up to 25,00 troops there and that Putin may think that is justification.  Do you really think that a force of 25,00 scared off an army 5 times that size? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine

Quote:

The Ukrainian armed forces were made up of 40% conscripts and 60% contract soldiers.[21] Conscription was ended in October 2013.[21] The total personnel (including 41,000 civilian workers) at the end of 2010 will be 200,000.[22] The branch structure is as follows:

    Ukrainian Ground Forces: 73,300 personnel[23]
    Ukrainian Air Force: 46,000 personnel[23]
    Ukrainian Navy: 15,000 personnel[24]






--------------------


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19719510 - 03/19/14 04:14 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/17/221514/questions-surround-crimea-referendum.html



Previous polls showed 60% of Crimea to be "very pro Russia" before a US backed coup.  How many were just "pro Russia", or "slightly pro Russia"?  And how do you think a Western backed coup of a democratically elected leader would effect people's opinions?  Hint - it's not going to make Russia friendly citizens more friendly to the West.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19719543 - 03/19/14 04:18 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/17/221514/questions-surround-crimea-referendum.html



Previous polls showed 60% of Crimea to be "very pro Russia" before a US backed coup.  How many were just "pro Russia", or "slightly pro Russia"?  And how do you think a Western backed coup of a democratically elected leader would effect people's opinions?  Hint - it's not going to make Russia friendly citizens more friendly to the West.




What US backing and what coup?  Not a shot was fired.  Did you know that the Ukraine Parliament was also duly elected? 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26302572

Quote:

Ukraine's parliament votes to oust President Viktor Yanukovych as opposition takes effective control of the capital, Kiev





I repeat, not a shot was fired in this so called coup and the US didn't have a fucking thing to do with it.


--------------------


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19719566 - 03/19/14 04:22 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I knew you couldn't find evidence that there were more than 25,000 troops, because it doesn't exist.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Do you really think that a force of 25,00 scared off an army 5 times that size?



If the Ukrainians chose to fight, then those 25,000 would get the support of the Rest of Russian military, wouldn't they?  Grow a brain and find evidence there are more than 25,000 troops.

Edit:  By the way how many shots were fired to 'scare' the Ukrainian army out of Crimea?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/19/14 04:36 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19719632 - 03/19/14 04:35 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I knew you couldn't find evidence that there were more than 25,000 troops, because it doesn't exist.




http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-ukraine-russia-crimea-attacks-20140319,0,800215.story#axzz2wS05uEk3

Quote:

MOSCOW -- Ukrainian forces at two naval facilities in Crimea reported Wednesday that they were attacked by gunmen linked to Russia in violation of an earlier agreement to give them until Friday to leave the breakaway region.

“So-called pro-Russian self-defense forces of Crimea aided by Russian gunmen in unmarked uniforms stormed and gained control of our navy chief’s headquarters in Sevastopol,” Alexei Mazepa, regional spokesman for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, said in a phone interview. The headquarters building was under Russian control by midday, he said.




Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Do you really think that a force of 25,00 scared off an army 5 times that size?



If the Ukrainians chose to fight, then those 25,000 would get the support of the Rest of Russian military, wouldn't they?  Grow a brain and find evidence there are more than 25,000 troops.




Oh so they were invaded by the entire military might of the Soviet Union.


--------------------


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19719716 - 03/19/14 04:48 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

You presented no evidence there are more than 25,000 troops in Crimea, after calling me a liar.  You lose yet again.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19719769 - 03/19/14 04:56 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You presented no evidence there are more than 25,000 troops in Crimea, after calling me a liar.  You lose yet again.




I haven't seen you present any evidence that there wasn't.  I find your argument absurd.  Why would you take Putin's word for it?  That's all Brennan cited.


--------------------


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19722038 - 03/20/14 01:11 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You presented no evidence there are more than 25,000 troops in Crimea, after calling me a liar.  You lose yet again.




I haven't seen you present any evidence that there wasn't.  I find your argument absurd.  Why would you take Putin's word for it?  That's all Brennan cited.



The largest claim of troop numbers I could find anywhere is 16,000; that's the claim from Ukraine to the United Nations.  Now, if you don't even trust Ukraine, then it's not worth arguing since it means you only trust your imagination, and I don't.

I'll ask one last time - show me a number greater than 25,000.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19723541 - 03/20/14 11:53 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You presented no evidence there are more than 25,000 troops in Crimea, after calling me a liar.  You lose yet again.




I haven't seen you present any evidence that there wasn't.  I find your argument absurd.  Why would you take Putin's word for it?  That's all Brennan cited.



The largest claim of troop numbers I could find anywhere is 16,000; that's the claim from Ukraine to the United Nations.  Now, if you don't even trust Ukraine, then it's not worth arguing since it means you only trust your imagination, and I don't.

I'll ask one last time - show me a number greater than 25,000.  :popcorn:




Link?  What is with you and your linkage disability?

By the way, I can't find ay numbers at all.


--------------------


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19723643 - 03/20/14 12:16 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Link?  What is with you and your linkage disability?

By the way, I can't find ay numbers at all.



Sorry zappa, I didn't realize you were Google challenged.  Here's one.  And here's a lot more.

Since I already your next post is going to be "but those aren't current", my next reply will be "show me what's changed".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19723819 - 03/20/14 12:53 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Link?  What is with you and your linkage disability?

By the way, I can't find ay numbers at all.



Sorry zappa, I didn't realize you were Google challenged.  Here's one.  And here's a lot more.

Since I already your next post is going to be "but those aren't current", my next reply will be "show me what's changed".



Right.  That's what I thought.  That was in addition to the Russian troops already there.  It also does not seem to account for all of the gunmen without uniforms attacking various Ukrainian installations.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19724684 - 03/20/14 03:55 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Some of those ununidormed are Ukrainian militas


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: Shins]
    #19724687 - 03/20/14 03:56 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Some of those ununidormed are Ukrainian militas



In Crimea?  I don't think so.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19724767 - 03/20/14 04:14 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Of course they are.  Dhows how out of touch you are.


--------------------
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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Bama gonna Crimea river [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19725773 - 03/20/14 08:59 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Since I already know your next post is going to be "but those aren't current", my next reply will be "show me what's changed".



Right.  That's what I thought.



That nothing has changed?  Ok, agreed.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That was in addition to the Russian troops already there.



No, that's TOTAL.  Ukraine tells UN that 16,000 Russian troops there

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It also does not seem to account for all of the gunmen without uniforms attacking various Ukrainian installations.



Crimean (Ukrainian) militia aren't part of the 25,000 troop agreement.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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Dogomush 3,110 53 10/06/05 08:11 PM
by Ekstaza
* The War's not gonna happen Anonymous 902 14 03/03/03 11:35 PM
by rhizo
* Is it REALLY gonna happen? jakes 481 6 01/21/05 09:45 AM
by deafpanda
* What's it gonna take? zetek 887 2 09/17/01 06:12 AM
by Innvertigo
* I'm gonna cry, this money could be used for so much RedNucleus 330 4 11/02/03 02:51 PM
by Kid_Orgo

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