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Offlinewhole9
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Registered: 04/28/03
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Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
We are definatly slaves to money.
    #1970331 - 10/01/03 08:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Its the perfect system. We work for the rich who have almost unlimited ammounts of paper money. We buy their products, in return we get them richer. They stay in controll. They keep us buying with subliminal messages in tv, the internet, and radio (songs most importantly). We are all slaves to money. Untill we get away from the system of having paper define our worth, then we will never truely be free. A man should be able to live off the earth like he has done for thousands of years without one cent to his name. The global economy is upon us, and we must do our best to resist. I just hope we can all stay strong. So I guess what im trying to say is stop buying, and start trading. Break free from the chains of money.


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
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Loc: New Jersey U.S.
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970385 - 10/01/03 08:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Very true but paper money is an illusion, its what they want you to think the system is about, its the true meaning of that paper that matters, GOLD. Humans need gold because they think it will save them when the Anunaki return! Foolish Humans! HAHAHA!!!


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Offlinewhole9
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Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1970393 - 10/01/03 08:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Religons just keep our thoughts in line, and give us guidlines on how to think, and what to think about. Its just one step closer to complete controll of our thoughts, which will be reached sooner or later.


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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970397 - 10/01/03 08:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I couldn't agree more. It's amazing everything is still holding
(although not for long, since the so-called republican president (what a farse this politcal system is, i mean even if you don't buy the freemason/nwo/global elite conspiracy theories, at least pay attention to the way the politicians of the world, your governments and intelligence agencies constantly make blind dumb decisions that always lead to further disasters or revoking of rights) is bleeding the country dry and probably will cause the final collapse of the world financial structure. After you read about the federal reserve, the imf, world bank etc. it's even more appalling.

And soon it will be nearly impossible (it's damn hard now) for anyone to revoke their us citizenship and live independently of the money/slave system the global elite created.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970399 - 10/01/03 08:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You've got it right and wrong.

There is no "they", there are no subliminal messages. There's not a secret group of people laughing maniacally as we sell a piece of our souls

Buying IS trading, actually. Money is just like an "IOU" note.

In a system based on any kind of trade, you can make money with whatever skills you have. Be it in producing food, tools, or providing a service, you will become necessary.

...and then there are people who's best skill is trading. They suddenly have an advantage, before you know it, the traders have an abundance of resources, and tons of control. Rich people aren't all evil. Some of them are nice people who got lucky. Sure, there are plenty of rich assholes, but there are lots of poor assholes as well.

People have been trying for ages to figure out ways to make the system more fair. Nothing has really worked, and decent new ideas are difficult to come by.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineTavarua
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Registered: 07/02/03
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Loc: Califuckinfornia
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970403 - 10/01/03 08:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know about yours but they won't have a hold of mine... you've got to speak for yourself 'cause money aint shit.


--------------------
Gotta love life cuz life be lovin me


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Offlinewhole9
LOVE ME BITCH

Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: start25]
    #1970410 - 10/01/03 08:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yup were fucked. Thats why im trying to convince my parents to live far away from civilization, and aquire a nice parcel of land that they can sustain life on then grow from the earth, and live free. Becuase seriously if you notice in large metropolitan areas people are crazy. The car exhaust, and airplane fuel all comes from the oil companies, which the rich elite controll. They put certain chemicals in the oil that eventually get into our system when we breath small ammounts of the exhaust. These chemicals do somthing to our thoughts, and somehow controll us into thinking less, but acting more. We are definatly not at our full potential in the cities. I gaurentee you, that you would feel smarter if you were closer to nature, and cleaner air. If you can die from standing in your garage while your car is running for a few minutes then why the fuck are we putting that shit in our atmosphere. God its so obvious is sickens me.


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Offlinewhole9
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Phluck]
    #1970416 - 10/01/03 08:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
You've got it right and wrong.

There is no "they", there are no subliminal messages. There's not a secret group of people laughing maniacally as we sell a piece of our souls

Buying IS trading, actually. Money is just like an "IOU" note.

In a system based on any kind of trade, you can make money with whatever skills you have. Be it in producing food, tools, or providing a service, you will become necessary.

...and then there are people who's best skill is trading. They suddenly have an advantage, before you know it, the traders have an abundance of resources, and tons of control. Rich people aren't all evil. Some of them are nice people who got lucky. Sure, there are plenty of rich assholes, but there are lots of poor assholes as well.

People have been trying for ages to figure out ways to make the system more fair. Nothing has really worked, and decent new ideas are difficult to come by.




perhaps, but it is definatly possible that the richest, and evilist people of the world do form groups/clubs to give them an even greater advtaage over people, and return gain more power over the world. You are a fool if you think most of the richest 500 people in the world dont get together and think of ways to use what they have created to their advantage..


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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970424 - 10/01/03 09:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't read anything about the conspirator's trying to add chemicals to gas, but I think it's possible, and true that living in small enclosed places with poulltion changes your brain activity. I also think that television is a complteley controlled mode of media designed specifically to dumb us down, and I mean both the tv set itself and the "programming." have you ever read any of the scientific reports about the early experiments with tv, well to sum them up they basically report that they turn us into mindless zombies with severely decreased mental capacities. I still watch it though sadly.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970469 - 10/01/03 09:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"The car exhaust, and airplane fuel all comes from the oil companies, which the rich elite controll. They put certain chemicals in the oil that eventually get into our system when we breath small ammounts of the exhaust. These chemicals do somthing to our thoughts, and somehow controll us into thinking less, but acting more."

There is no evidence whatsoever for that. It sounds pretty paranoid and crazy to me.

Sure people get together to make money together, that's what a big company is, but there's no basis for the idea of secret societies. Maintaining such an organization would be impossible even with unlimited funds.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: start25]
    #1970500 - 10/01/03 09:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"have you ever read any of the scientific reports about the early experiments with tv, well to sum them up they basically report that they turn us into mindless zombies with severely decreased mental capacities"

I've heard of more recent studies that show that little brain activity is happening when we watch TV. I don't think they even had the technology to carry out such a study when it was first introduced.

TV is a business and a form of entertainment. There's lots of mindless crap on there, but there are a few programs that are inventive artistic creations, and some that are genuinely informative. TV is costly to produce and transmit, and as a result only people with lots of money can put shows on, and shows are put on to attract the highest number of viewers possible, and to advertise, so we end up with crap.

The internet is better though. The internet gives anyone with access an equal voice, and you can have a domain name that's as easy to remember as that of a huge corporation for just a few dollars a month. It will definately thrive over television.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinewhole9
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Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Phluck]
    #1970512 - 10/01/03 09:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

well im just being safe. I just try to stay away from things that are borderline.


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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Phluck]
    #1970578 - 10/01/03 09:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

they had the technology to observe people and give them reasonsing tests, I think they did the experiments in the late '30's before this had anything to do with money. And besides, yes most of the people in the tv industry are there trying to earn a living, but the people at the top have alterior motives.

And in regards to secret societies, tt is quite possible for say, 10,000 people to keep a great secret There are 6.5 billion in the world, that leaves, well i'm too lazy to do the math but it's an incredible small percentage in the larger perspective. i personally don't think it's some satanic illuminati ultra secret group, but I do think that there has been secret societies strongly impacting the world, even throughout recent history, and that turned into the current global elite/NWO. for example, it's actually quite well proven and almost 100& accepted by most historians that the French revelution was caused by underground political groups manipulating the masses, hisorians just don't go as far to say that the illuminati was the root of those groups, but it adds up pretty well.

What about that anti-mason party in the United States, a party that rose out of fear of all the secret societies. And that a lot of the founders of the country were devoted masons. FDR was a 33rd degree mason. I just don't get why people find the possility of this unlikely, unsubstantiated perhaps if you haven't done years of research, but not impossible.


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Anonymous

Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970849 - 10/01/03 11:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

We work for the rich

the only one who takes away the fruits of your labor is the government, and they typically give it to poor people if they aren't spending it themselves.

who have almost unlimited ammounts of paper money.

paper money ain't shit. about 5% of our currency is in paper. that's beside the point though. currency is not wealth. cuurency is merely a means of exchanging wealth.

We buy their products, in return we get them richer.

and you get richer too, do you not? if you do not forsee yourself benefitting from your purchase of something, i suggest that you do not purchase it.

They stay in controll.

?

They keep us buying with subliminal messages in tv, the internet, and radio (songs most importantly).

on TV? that's illegal.

the internet? what sites?

music? now music artists are part of the conspiracy as well?... shit...

We are all slaves to money.

you are a slave to your body. if you want to live, you need food to eat, water to drink, and shelter to live in. because aquiring all of these things requires effort on your part, you will have to work if you want to live. welcome to being a living creature.

Untill we get away from the system of having paper define our worth, then we will never truely be free.

we use our currency to define the worth of many things (or more accurately, define the worth of our currency by many things...), but i think few would argue that it determines the worth of a human being.

A man should be able to live off the earth like he has done for thousands of years without one cent to his name.

i agree.

The global economy is upon us, and we must do our best to resist.

:smirk:

So I guess what im trying to say is stop buying, and start trading. Break free from the chains of money.

currency is used as a convenient means of exchange. that is all. it makes exchange between individuals a whole lot easier and mutually beneficial... this is why human civilizations have employed currency for thousands of years.

two things.

1. "they" do not exist.
2. currency isn't what's causing the problem here.

p.s. i think there are some folks over at P, A, & L who are far more eloquent than i who would have a feild day with this... i think i'll link to it... 


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Offlinewhole9
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Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1970868 - 10/01/03 11:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I unno just an idea. Either im insane, or im right. Or im trying to make myself stop buying shit I dont need. either way im still a winner =D


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Anonymous

Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1970874 - 10/01/03 11:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Or im trying to make myself stop buying shit I dont need.

that sounds like an excellent idea.


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Offlinewhole9
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Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1971005 - 10/01/03 11:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

thx =]


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1971660 - 10/02/03 03:11 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I got a lovely pumpkin I grew myself... :grin:

No, no, I am lying, I don't have a pumpkin and I didn't grow it.  :frown:
Peace


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1971756 - 10/02/03 03:53 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

we're slaves to our ideas


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1971776 - 10/02/03 04:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"We work for the rich

the only one who takes away the fruits of your labor is the government, and they typically give it to poor people if they aren't spending it themselves."

nah I think these big corporations and winning here as well, not just the government. These incs are nowadays basically "sponsoring" various politicians and portions of government - together the corporate world and government are attempting to manufacture their own reality without worrying about what the consumer/taxpayer thinks as long as they still want to keep their crappy stressful jobs


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Posts: 9,954
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: start25]
    #1971997 - 10/02/03 08:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
I haven't read anything about the conspirator's trying to add chemicals to gas, but I think it's possible, and true that living in small enclosed places with poulltion changes your brain activity.  I also think that television is a complteley controlled mode of media designed specifically to dumb us down, and I mean both the tv set itself and the "programming." have you ever read any of the scientific reports about the early experiments with tv, well to sum them up they basically report that they turn us into mindless zombies with severely decreased mental capacities.  I still watch it though sadly. 




I'm reminded of this Far Side Comic I saw long ago, of two pics, one of a small group of cavemen sittin around a fire, just staring at the fire...and the adjacent pic of a small family of people sitting around a telivision...just staring at the telivision...lol

but anyways, on your quote, you said "  I also think that television is a complteley controlled mode of media designed specifically to dumb us down, and I mean both the tv set itself and the "programming." "
I think that telivision was created originally and soley for entertainment purposes...but as everything, it turned out to have its ups and downs, pros and cons...its cons being that it does, "Dumb us down" like you said, in a lot of ways...but what if you just watch nothing but Discovery channel, TLC, and PBS and the Animal Planet? :smirk: 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1972282 - 10/02/03 11:24 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Even though i agree that alot of people are getting fucked in this economy it really isnt that bad of a system. I love music, videogames and movies. I know they take the money i work hard for but those things cost alot of money to make and im glad to work for them because without them life would suck. What i do hate is when economy takes priority over everything, life, goverment, laws ect. And thats in the country we live in now, driven by economy, the main reason why Marijuana is illegal. But if you hate to give your money out to these fat bastards then you always have the oportunity to start your own buisness in this country. If you want to drop out of school to sell drugs and get convicted its really no ones fault but yourself for playing it stupid.


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OfflineDgrepo
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Registered: 04/25/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1972405 - 10/02/03 12:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Whole9, you are so right about city thinking vs. nature thinking. pollutants do cloud your mind and thoughts. i live in the heart of a major metropolitan city, but must leave every weekend to the country to relax and clear my head.

Quote:

whole9 said:
Yup were fucked. Thats why im trying to convince my parents to live far away from civilization, and aquire a nice parcel of land that they can sustain life on then grow from the earth, and live free. Becuase seriously if you notice in large metropolitan areas people are crazy. The car exhaust, and airplane fuel all comes from the oil companies, which the rich elite controll. They put certain chemicals in the oil that eventually get into our system when we breath small ammounts of the exhaust. These chemicals do somthing to our thoughts, and somehow controll us into thinking less, but acting more. We are definatly not at our full potential in the cities. I gaurentee you, that you would feel smarter if you were closer to nature, and cleaner air. If you can die from standing in your garage while your car is running for a few minutes then why the fuck are we putting that shit in our atmosphere. God its so obvious is sickens me.




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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Dgrepo]
    #1972412 - 10/02/03 12:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dgrepo said:
Whole9, you are so right about city thinking vs. nature thinking. pollutants do cloud your mind and thoughts. i live in the heart of a major metropolitan city, but must leave every weekend to the country to relax and clear my head.





So, there is still an environment in Texas? I thought Bush took care of that a long time ago?! ?shrugs?

Reminds me of that Simpsons episdode, with the Republican meeting, with like Mr. Burns, Count Dracula, Raineer Wolfcastle, The Rich Texan, Krusty the Clown, and Bob Dole. Mr. Burns asks what act of true evil they should commit this month, and The Rich Texan is all like "Well, why don't we get rid of the environment? Hell, we got rid of it in Texas and everyone's happier for it!"
Muahaha. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1972545 - 10/02/03 01:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

On the assumption 'them' do not exist, here's a bunch of bastards that do:

Click here to meet them


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1973676 - 10/02/03 07:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

We are slaves to our own fear of wildness. Our fear that if we stop being domestic, stop being workers and start living passionately, honestly and connected to ourselves and the world around us that we won't survive because our system will topple. Yeah, if we stop contributing to the farce of a system we've created it will indeed topple but that would hardly be a sad thing.

We're afraid to acknowledge what we really want (wild freedom and fulfillment) because if we take the time and strength to do so we won't be able to take part in the very thing we've come to depend on to live. Money is a huge part of this, but where the problem really lies is that we oppress ourselves and don't even realize it. We're unconcious supporters of what makes us sick.

If we want to stop this, we must take a step back from the lies we're dependant on and we must start building the communities we really want.


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InvisibleFick_Duck
Truffle Shuffle
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1978221 - 10/04/03 03:34 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, lets pretend for a minute that we all buy up a piece of land to live off of and we quit our jobs and burn down everywhere we used to work/ buy stuff. Then you (bieng a greenthumb) have more food than youre family could possibly eat, so you trade some to another guy for a cow.
Still youre producing way more than you need so you open a small grocery store, you get tired of converting chickens to corn and milk to eggs so you develop a standard "money" to trade with, so you dont have to remember that 5 eggs = 11 ears of corn. youre business soars and you open new shops, as do others with various goods and services.

Economy is unavoidable. we would eventually end up right back where we are now, with lazy hippies that dont want to work and want to "live off the land". you wanna live off the land, become a forest ranger, you can earn your LIVEing OFF of helping THE LAND. For anyone with strong will and determination the sky is the limit in this country. If your job is so horrible DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO to be where you wanna be, even a hippie can find a rewarding and satisfying career here (I did, and Im a hippie)

>>But if you hate to give your money out to these fat bastards then you always have the oportunity to start your own buisness in this country.

Exactly, were tired of working jobs that we hate so we can buy shit we dont need. So we make soap from old lady fat and beat each other up at night, its the american dream.


>>If we want to stop this, we must take a step back from the lies we're dependant on and we must start building the communities we really want.

Be careful what you wish for.

weve all seen survivor right? people get pissed because some people work harder than others. Money makes it fair, I dont care if some guys too lazy to keep a job because hes not gettin as much money as those who are willing to work to help themselves. But then welfare comes in and fucks that up.

To all who read this entire post im sorry, and im sleepy. Please dont take my hippie ranting the wrong way, Id rather hang out with thirty hippies than one personal financial analyst.


--------------------
"To know life you must fuck it in the liver." -Dr. Frankenstein, Andy Warhols Frankenstein


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Fick_Duck]
    #1979701 - 10/04/03 09:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think that you get the point my friend. First of all, to say that an economy such as the one we currently have is unavoidable is very naive. How old is our culture? 10,000 max. That's bringing it right back to the industrial revolution. How old is our species? Vastly older than 10,000 I can guarantee you. How long have we been exploiting the land for our own ends? Again,it began roughly 10,000 years ago (wasn't drastically serious until a few centuries/millenia later...) Civilization is very young and in its short lifespan it's almost completely wiped out all the "resources" of the planet. We've got maybe a century, if even, to continue our unrelenting rape of the Earth.

I'm not proposing we chill out on the materialism just because I think it's a silly distraction from what's truly important (even though it is.) I'm saying we need to slow down NOW because if we don't our crash will be so intense that it's unlikely our species, or many other complex species will survive. If you want a planet inhabited by nothing but bacterium fine, lets continue to rape and pillage the Earth, but I'm not looking forward to that era. Personally, I've made it my mission to at least make the fall of our civilization soft. It is going to eat itself out of house and home, but I'd like very much to have something left when we must face this facade and learn how to survive all over again.

Your comment was completely arrogant and uninformed using transparent fallacies as cannon fodder. You may want to rethink the way you present your arguments coz they're pretty ignorant as it stands.

Money makes it fair eh? Is it fair that children have to sell thier bodies for money, and at that don't even get enough to feed themselves? Is it fair that the VAST majority of the Earth's population is in poverty, subjugated by and for a tiny minority of the filthy rich? Money hardly makes anything fair.

If *you* were ever a hippie you sure sold out.

Our economy is a death-trap for every single living being that inhabits planet Earth. That isn't to say that we should have no economy, simply one that is drastically, severely different than the one we currently have.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1980798 - 10/05/03 08:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah Native Americans survived for a long time without this economic system so i dont think its inevetible, well, maybe just for fat money hungry Americans....................


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OfflineGeeno
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1980801 - 10/05/03 08:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Native Americans had wampum didnt they?

(I realize that it sucks to lump all the different tribes into one group since they all had their own thing, but what can you do)


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Geeno]
    #1980813 - 10/05/03 08:43 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

yeah im not saying they didnt have some kind of currency but compare it to the advertising frenzy that is our economy. What i was trying to prove that an economy in the state that ours is is not completly inevetible.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1981065 - 10/05/03 01:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The currency isn't the issue, it is our effects on our planet. The Native American's trading and monetary systems (sea shells, gems, furs, etc.... it was almost completely trading, basically) didn't adversely effect the environment. The Native Americans lived in perfect harmony with nature; they realized the part they should play to keep balance and they played that part skillfully.
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1981280 - 10/05/03 02:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Thats untill Christians came from the East!!! :devil: 


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1981297 - 10/05/03 02:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

there are so many myths about the native americans it's ridiculous.

one is that they didn't practice agriculture much (they did on a rather wide scale), they had little or no government (they did), and they didn't have much trade and commerce (they had highly developed trade networks).

most people are of the general impression that the natives were far less "advanced" then they really were.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1981317 - 10/05/03 02:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Every institution of our culture, be it our economy, our religions, our education system, and on and on, serves the specific purpose of repressing our wild nature, our innate tribal knowledge, and making us become our own repressors. "I'd like to see the world [create art, pursue spiritual paths, grow a garden, dance in the streets] but I have to work this job I hate in order to survive and I don't have time for what I truly want to do." And through that repression we act out against each other and other life forms, repressing them so that they can't flaunt the freedom we no longer have. It's a vicious circle, and it starts at birth. We domesticate ourselves and all life surrounding us and then we think the problems of the world come from people or other creatures not being civilized *enough*.


Edited by NiamhNyx (10/05/03 03:00 PM)


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1981324 - 10/05/03 03:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I was watching a movie in Anthro last week, and it was about the !Kung tribe in Africa. An anthropologist has been studying them since he was 17, so nearly 50+ years. Anyway, its remarkable to see how they went from a self-sufficiant, nomadic tribe to a greedy, money hungry group after whites introduced money into their lives. It was really depressing; where once a tribe had flourished on their way of life: sharing with everyone, hunting and gathering, now no one shard, no one hunted, and everyone argued over who had more money.



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making you want to be a better person since 2008. 


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sometimes when I'm raping a bitch, I like to tickle her ribs and under neath her arms, and I say "loosen up bitch, lets have fun now because if I have to kill your squirming ass, only one of us will be having fun, and you can't have a party all by yourself can you?" Then its usually all laughs and good times from there.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1981372 - 10/05/03 03:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
there are so many myths about the native americans it's ridiculous.

one is that they didn't practice agriculture much (they did on a rather wide scale), they had little or no government (they did), and they didn't have much trade and commerce (they had highly developed trade networks).

most people are of the general impression that the natives were far less "advanced" then they really were.




Not really. I thought it was a more generally accepted idea now that we really screwed them over and their system, and that it was highly evolved and perfectly in balance... no one is denying their extensive trade and agriculture (some tribes more than others, like the Sioux would be mainly hunters, but like others were more involved with growing their food and hunting small game).

It all depended on the land that they were in. Native Americans adopted to the places they lived in. Perfect balance.
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OfflinePed
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1981379 - 10/05/03 03:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Viewing an unfortunate paradigm as though we are it's victim is not logical. Our society has centered around itself around the ideal of competition, of dominating our peers through intimidation. It is a central objective to be the first to receive such prizes as food, luxury, and fertile women. The female and all things feminine are felt to be subservient to the nuts-and-bolts mentality of the masculine. It is much like the system upon which our primate cousins still thrive, and it has been with us since the dawn of human conciousness.

Humans have developed so rapidly and in such an emotive way that our growth has recently catylized the gradual obsolescence of the multi-tiered, class-based hierarchy of hunters, gatherers, leaders and followers. It's this which rests at the root of systemic problems like hunger, disease, poverty, crime, and war. If we analyze the history of our species backward through the lense of time, we'll discover that there is a parallel between the psycho-social phenomenon of each civil era to that of the maturation of an individual human child. It's my belief that human kind is struggling through a period of adolescence, wrought with confusion, egoism, and frantic self-grasping.

I believe that human kind is coming to grips with it's identity. The chaos this brings to an individual, when enlarged to the global scale, will bring immeasurably terrifying -- but necessary -- suffering. Everything is on track. The days ahead are beautiful, peaceful, symbiotic, and joyous. Instead of meditating on apprehension, let us celebrate our capacity to feel.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Ped]
    #1981403 - 10/05/03 03:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Great stuff, Ped!

Can't say much more to that. :grin:
Peace.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Ped]
    #1981419 - 10/05/03 03:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think we're growing up, or on track like you claim. What I've observed is that we're consistantly becoming more isolated, more distracted and more psychotic. At the same time, there's a rift. There are people that are stepping back and rejecting this. Some call it evolving, I call it embracing our wild nature (which has always been part of us so how can that be evolution?)


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OfflinePed
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1981699 - 10/05/03 05:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

A child when it is born is essentially wild. Sudden throwbacks to infancy are like the reminiscence of a dejected youth. Increased isolation, decreased concentration, and the hysteria you refer to all fit the picture I have in mind.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Ped]
    #1982924 - 10/06/03 02:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, children are essentially wild until they're repressed and trained to reject what they understand of the world innately. This isn't to say that we should become children. Are you implying that primal peoples are childish? Primal people are wild by any definition but that doesn't make them hysterical, isolated or lacking concentration. Quite the opposite. In fact, there are many more examples of adults like that in domestic civilization than there are in wild tribal cultures. Possibly this is because they are more psychologically intact. Thier culture isn't constantly leaving them in a state of terror, they aren't threatened with the requirement to sell thier time, bodies and minds in order to survive and be a respected member of thier society.

I'm not at all saying that we should just start living like nomadic hunters and gatherers and be tribal again, this is clearly not possible due to the scarcity of resources (since we've used them all up) and the sheer number of people now alive. What I'm saying is that it's wise to compare our domestic culture to wild tribal cultures and see what it is that we can emulate, recreate in our own world in order to make the life process possible, and even fulfilling in the coming century. It's clear that we must change or risk annihilating ourselves. Why not look to cultures that live in balance for inspiriation?


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1983082 - 10/06/03 04:42 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

money is really nuts. here's my beef with it. how can you say paper is worth so much in gold? where is this conversion factor? and not just gold, "other precious metals" whatever. how can you convert the cost of tearing down trees, thus slowly creating complications with nature's system?
Unfortunately reality shows that humans don't want to even know what respecting the earth means. First of all, i think it would mean that we need to live in peace with each other. ah but such simple but high mountains to climb.
There's just so many people here it's kinda scary. i think industry has played a major role in the way we treat mother earth and our overpopulating of our planet. we want to stay alive a lot longer and yet we have more people than we can handle.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: kaiowas]
    #1983159 - 10/06/03 05:54 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)


"Unfortunately reality shows that humans don't want to even know what respecting the earth means. First of all, i think it would mean that we need to live in peace with each other. ah but such simple but high mountains to climb "


I take a slightly more hopeful approach: Most humans at this time aren't facing up to it, but I think that prehistory offers evidence that humans are quite capable of respecting the earth, what we've taken is a detour, its an abberation. I think its in our most basic nature to want harmony with our environment but there's just so much going on that most of us are overwhelmed and since we don't know where to begin we shut it all out and distract ourselves instead of facing such pain. I'm hopeful that this can change.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1983167 - 10/06/03 06:02 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I believe we are either going through the "terrible two's" stage or perhaps our rebellious, teen age years... :grin:
Peace.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1983664 - 10/06/03 01:16 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

NiamhNyx, I think I may have initially misunderstood you.

I had meant not to apply such traits as hysteria or isolation to primitive peoples. Rather, I meant to apply them to industrialized culture today, and what I perceive to be it's troublesome adolescence as a species.

There has come over us as a species this terribly urgent need to identify ourselves against an other, be it the culturally ratified projection of an authoritative God figure, the obsession with psychic intuition of the decesased, or the belief in extraterrestrial life. This type of grasping reminds us of the behaviour of an ego, establishing and clinging to an illusiory identity based upon the reflection of ourselves against an at least partially mythological backdrop. In this case it can be described as the Super Ego, the Ego of humankind as a collective. Osho is much clearer than I am on the matter.

Ego is inherently insecure. We are all aware that the more insecure the ego becomes, the more anguish is felt by the party in question. I feel that such problems as racism, the drug war, the paranoia evoked by the homosexual movement, and the fixations on ascetheticism, instant gratification and material things, all reflect the sense of danger felt by the unsteady and certainly impermanent collective human Ego.

NiamhNyx, could you elaborate on the benefits you see in adopting some of the practices of more primitive civilizations? I certainly agree that we have a lot to learn from such people as the Native Americans, the ancient Chinese, or tribal people's of the Amazon basin. What specifically did you have in mind?


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Anonymous

Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1990960 - 10/08/03 08:17 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Native Americans adopted to the places they lived in. Perfect balance.

that's the sort of stereotype i'm talking about. what'd'you mean by balance?

many of them were very wasteful and unsustainable in their hunting and agricultural practices.

i used to be an anthropology major. i took a few classes on native americans before i switched majors. believe me. most of the stuff you hear about the natives is totally false. perhaps the biggest myth is this whole "perfect harmony with nature" thing. it's a sort of stereotype, and that's it.


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: whole9]
    #1991343 - 10/08/03 10:38 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

im gonna reply, and then read responses, so if somebody alredy sed this, sorry:

money isn't evil. it's us, and our greed. the greed is there regardless of the money. people are greedy when they barter too.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1992428 - 10/09/03 07:43 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
that's the sort of stereotype i'm talking about. what'd'you mean by balance?




A stereotype? Bah. Balance? I mean that they realized their part in the circle of life and lived it. Balance in all forms is necessary.

Quote:


many of them were very wasteful and unsustainable in their hunting and agricultural practices.




Where do you get this from? Care to list any tribe names, maybe? I have never heard anything at all to suggest that this is true. Very wasteful? Ever ride a sled made from the ribs of a buffalo? When was the last time one of us went out deer hunting, used all of the meat,

Where were the cleared forests when we arrived? Or the rotting carcasses of dead animals that they wantonly used? And then tanned the hides of the animal, used it for blankets and clothes, and then used the bones for different implements and tools? Ever use an animal shoulderblade to plow?

Un-fucking-sustainable?? They sustained themselves on this continent for thousands and thousands of fucking years! The only time they were ever unsustainable was when we came in, purposely shot their game, divided their land for ourselves, killed most of them, spread disease, and ruined any sustainability of their culture and livelihood.

So, how much forest do we have now? How overpopulated are we now? How balanced would you say we are with nature?

Quote:


i used to be an anthropology major. i took a few classes on native americans before i switched majors. believe me. most of the stuff you hear about the natives is totally false. perhaps the biggest myth is this whole "perfect harmony with nature" thing. it's a sort of stereotype, and that's it.




I just don't believe shit because someone said it, man. Care to bring in some references? I'd love to read them.
Peace.


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1993175 - 10/09/03 02:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

1. "they" do not exist.



Ah, I see. You are one of those guys. One of those non-conspiracy theorists. No matter the number coincidences or correlations, you will always come up with some theory to deny the possibility of any existence of any underlying or motive force. Everything is safe, happy, bubbly, and magical in your disney-world. You should seek help, man.

Quote:

2. currency isn't what's causing the problem here.



In and of itself, currency doesn't cause the problem, which I believe is a government with far too much power subjecting its citizens, rather than the other way around, which would be with a government by and for the people. How did the government encroach upon and gather up so much power it should not have? One way was confiscating all the gold currency in 1933, destroying the constitutional currency that had been in effect since the creation of this Republic, and eventually replacing it with Promissory Notes. The gold standard had then become no standard at all, but a promise by the government. At any point the government so chooses, they can say, "Each of our promissory notes are no longer valid, we exported all your businesses and land-deeds across seas, and you're all suckers." If your wealth is in merely this government's promissory notes, the government has the power to take all your wealth away in a flash. But, our government is very unlikely to do that, as they can still sucker work out of all of us by continually inflating the supply, since a large majority of people believe that Federal Reserve Notes are worth more than the paper they're written on. By controlling the money supply, you have an incredible influence over the people depending on that money supply.

This influence will demonstrably increase, when the government's power of the money supply increases. Lets say, for example, that the government successfully convinces everyone that paper money is obsolete, and creditcards or even id-chips are more convenient. Have you ever only had a credit card on you, tried to purchase something, only to find that the vendor won't accept the card? You don't have the ability to make the transaction. The government can decide what kinds of transactions you can make, by making the id-chip/credit cards only valid under certain circumstances. Many of the 'laws' enforced by the government have nothing to do with protection of the citizens or upholding the Law, but merely exist as acquisitions of power, wresting freedom from each of its subjects by additional chains and controls.

EDIT: Punctuation.


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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Edited by moogle (10/09/03 02:07 PM)


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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: moogle]
    #1993244 - 10/09/03 02:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, moogle, I am really liking your post so far, man. Five shrooms for you! :grin:
Peace.


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
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Like being here
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Anonymous

Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: moogle]
    #1993333 - 10/09/03 02:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, I see. You are one of those guys. One of those non-conspiracy theorists. No matter the number coincidences or correlations, you will always come up with some theory to deny the possibility of any existence of any underlying or motive force. Everything is safe, happy, bubbly, and magical in your disney-world. You should seek help, man.

ok... who are they?

By controlling the money supply, you have an incredible influence over the people depending on that money supply.

simple failure to understand economics. paper money produced by the government accounts for %5 of the currency in this country. banks are the ones that create create the money. the only way that the government can influence the supply of money is by adjusting the fed rate. even then, if it's set too high, the economy will crash and unemployment will run rampant. if it's set to low, we will have runaway inflation. the economy is a vast, interconnected netword that you just can't decide you want to fuck around with.

what really matters is the actual amounts and varieties of goods and services produced, not green slips of paper.

about being "slaves to money"... it could perhaps be said that we are slaves to consumer products... slaves to the material world... slaves to our own biological realities... as a living creatures, you need certain material things if you want to continue to function in this form. some of them require productive effort in order to attain. working is a natural part of life.

maybe we are slaves to money. why is this? because we use money to buy things like food, water, and shelter. you could of course acquire these things on your own without involving yourself with money, but most people find specialization to be convenient and efficient.

unless you want to live off the land on some mountainside or something(and no one is preventing you from doing this) you need to get the necessities you need to live from someone else. this means exchanging something with them for it. this means currency.


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Anonymous

Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1993386 - 10/09/03 03:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Where do you get this from? Care to list any tribe names, maybe?

if you knew anything about native americans, you'd know that for most of the history, the tribe level of organization was actually quite rare. categorizing natives into different culture groups (usually distinguished by different languages, or pottery, or especially projectile point designs) is what is done by anthropologists.

Very wasteful? Ever ride a sled made from the ribs of a buffalo? When was the last time one of us went out deer hunting, used all of the meat,

i could give you many examples of animals hunted to extinction by the natives during the paleoindian period if you'd like.

during their bison (buffalo do not live in the americas) drives, natives commonly drove hundreds of bison off cliffs, often leaving up to 75% of the meat to rot.

Un-fucking-sustainable?? They sustained themselves on this continent for thousands and thousands of fucking years!

12,000 years from the first person to cross the ice-bridge. by the time the europeans came, they were practicing agriculture and in some areas had large governmental bureaucracies and trade networks. it was not a hunter-gatherer utopia. land was ruined by erosion and salinization, animals hunted to extinction, and they had massive wars, famines, and droughts, just like other early cultures around the world had.

bah... i give up. think what you'd like, but what you have been taught about native americans is a totally stereotyped pop-education version. take some college-level anth courses about the natives, or read some thorough books, and you will see that most of the stereotypes we have about the natives are exactly that-stereotypes.

i'm sorry if i've shattered any delusions.


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Offlinemoogle
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Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1993778 - 10/09/03 04:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ok... who are they?



Let's suppose f(x) is some discrete function of x, and that all physically living people have an invisible, distinct, and random number stamped on their asses, ranging from 1 to n, where n is the total number of physically alive people (at some set time). Let us also suppose that for every moment in time, every individual person's ability to influence or change the world can be quantatively defined as some value, this definition being f(x) = y. For reasons of trying not to be too absurd, f(x) will not be exactly defined here, but it will involve a person's social connections, material possessions, and abstract possessions [knowledge], and be described as units of personal power (UPP).

Plot f(x) on a graph, and you will have roughly 6 billion points scattered above the x-axis, in most likely a very chaotic arrangement.
Now we will find every single possible value (ranges of values will be better, if everyone's UPP can be defined so well that none are alike) f(x) or y can equal, and number the times it equals that. Now we can create something called a "Distribution Graph", an example of which being the bell-curve of everyone's 'I.Q.'s. We do this by creating another function, g(y), where y is a continuum of all possible UPPs, and g(y) = z = the amount of times that y-value is plotted on our 6-billion-strong scatterplot. Let us suppose that g(y) looks like a series of humps, the magnitude of which decrease as we travel up the y-axis.

I'll try to draw and attach a 3-d graph (actually 2 2-d graphs at right angles to each other) now, however on this graph all people will be ordered from least to most influential, simply for ease of demonstration.



It doesn't seem perfectly 3-d, but bear with me.

With these 'humps' that we see, let's suppose we can categorize the representative people into a hierarchic figure based upon the humps, where less fortunate people (with regards to UPP) reside in large groups on the bottom, and more and more fortunate people reside in smaller and smaller groups, higher and higher up the hierarchic model.

This hierarchic model might resemble the side-view of a pyramid, and "they" could be considered to be the higher/highest echelons within this hierarchy.

Damnit, now I need to take a break.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Strumpling]
    #1993939 - 10/09/03 05:17 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

why would a supposed shadow government want to brain wash us? they are already in control and have power. Why the global brainwash conspiracy?



--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1993985 - 10/09/03 05:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

why would a supposed shadow government want to brain wash us? they are already in control and have power. Why the global brainwash conspiracy?




What do concentrations of power seek?


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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Offlinemoogle
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1994166 - 10/09/03 06:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
...paper money produced by the government accounts for %5 of the currency in this country. banks are the ones that [create] the money. the only way that the government can influence the supply of money is by adjusting the fed rate. even then, if it's set too high, the economy will crash and unemployment will run rampant. if it's set to low, we will have runaway inflation. the economy is a vast, interconnected netword that you just can't decide you want to fuck around with.




The interest rate the fed sets basically sets the amount by which banks lend [lend should be read as: print out of thin air, or simply create "credit" by adding to some value in their financial database -- this is digital money] money, as lower interest rates encourage mortgaging, and raising interest rates discourages mortgaging, correct?

Why can the fed increasing the interest rate crash the economy, making unemployment go rampant? Hint: the economy's current basis is an arrangement of endless borrowing to pay unpayable-debt.

Why can the fed decreasing the interest rate cause runaway inflation?
Hint: many will mortgage and take credit on anything they can, because they will want the capital to 'live the american dream', and create or expand a business.

But all of this is really beside the point. The government can do more than 'just set fed rates'. All your grandparents' gold was stolen, remember? The government has the power to destroy instantaneously the monetary wealth of all it's citizens -- that is an incredible power to have, especially if a foreign party infiltrates the mechanisms governing the country's monetary supply, and uses this as blackmail, such as holding a gun to your head and ordering you around.

Quote:

unless you want to live off the land on some mountainside or something(and no one is preventing you from doing this) you need to get the necessities you need to live from someone else. this means exchanging something with them for it. this means currency.




Exactly. To function in this (U.S.) society, you need the government currency, and this is why:

Quote:

moogle said:
By controlling the money supply, you have an incredible influence over the people depending on that money supply.



Whoever owns/controls the federal reserve, can suck enough of the money out of circulation by foreclosing on all the loans and refusing to issue new ones, such that there will be services and commodities to be traded, but there will be no money to make the trades, as all transactions in the U.S. depend on the government's promissory notes, and the economy will go into an enormous depression. The fed has done it in 1929, and will do it again when it serves "their" interests.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: moogle]
    #1995303 - 10/09/03 11:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

yo i only read half this post but I agree with yall on page 1 that we should be able to live off the earth and shit, i plan when i have money to buy property with a lake and a stream on it, and have my own well for water, and grow vegtbles and and have fruit trees and stuff, and a few windmills, and solor panals(which by the time I can afford them will be very effective and cheap hopefully) for power. And I will be self effeciant and free from money, except anything extra I wanted to buy , like oh for say, going to a movie, or .
peace


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1995583 - 10/10/03 12:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

sounds great in theory...call me when you establish


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Offlineentiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1996355 - 10/10/03 09:25 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

nobody is perfect, including the indians. and it was my anthropolgy teacher that taught me this (myth, ritual, and mysticism). but that was only 1 tribe I believe. If you want, you can go more in detail about who did that. I'd be surprised (but not disbelieve) that it was the Mayans. The sent out prayers when they killed. You'd have to pray a whole fucking lot for all those damn buffalos you ran off that cliff


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We are definatly slaves to money. [Re: ]
    #1996533 - 10/10/03 11:19 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I guess I never read that history book, apparently..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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