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DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique
#19692079 - 03/13/14 06:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi All,
Second attempt at PF cakes. First one was a failure for many reasons... learned a lot, though.
Anyway, I dunked and rolled my latest cakes 6 days ago. They still haven't pinned, so I just want to be sure my setup is ok. Any general critique is appreciated.
Additional background info if desired: Been struggling with humidity and cake dryness. In hindsight making a first attempt at growing mushrooms in the middle of the winter in a desert climate probably wasn't the easiest, but live and learn. I'd like to ultimately get the cool mist feeding directly into my SGFC, but until the needed timer comes in the mail, what you see in the pictures is what I've got. RH varies between 75-90. A couple days ago I moved the cool mist from the opposite end of the room to right above the SGFC. From what I've read this won't hinder FAE (may help it), but the cool mist is indeed cool - lowers the local temp to ~60F. Is this too cold?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: DifferentialQ]
#19692091 - 03/13/14 06:23 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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how to use a cool mist with a SGFC
Plug in cool mist on the other side of the room and don't fucking attach it to the SGFC since it will make it stall and not function properly
Then fix your SGFC get it off of the floor because the bottom holes don't work when it's on the floor, and get it away from the carpet.
don't bother measuring the humidity in a SGFC pay attention to the cakes and mist as needed.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (03/13/14 06:23 PM)
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blojo02184
Big Red



Registered: 05/15/13
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: bodhisatta]
#19692291 - 03/13/14 07:05 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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 Id trust him...
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: blojo02184]
#19692307 - 03/13/14 07:07 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Fruiting Chamber A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.
Misting and Fanning. This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.
FAE This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.
Quote:
Notahacker420 said: Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.
You would need to fan several times per hour.

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The physics of the shotgun terrarium are that evaporation causes a temperature drop, thus the air molecules are closer together. This results in higher pressure within the air spaces around the perlite.
The substrates and/or lights provide slight heating within the body of the terrarium. This results in relatively lower pressure. This low pressure area above the perlite(high pressure) results in airflow to balance the pressure. This in turn leads to more evaporation from the perlite, continuing the process. This is why a shotgun terrarium handles FAE automatically.
The CO2 does not settle to the bottom. In addition, the CO2 from mushrooms is mixed thoroughly into the O2, thus it travels out through the holes in the sides and top as part of the natural circulation. It doesn't enter the denser air within the perlite and spill out the bottom. RR
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RogerRabbit said:
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JayBrasco said: fewer, you dont want alot of humidity to escape. only enough on the BOTTOM to get rid of CO2
Bad advice. Fresh air exchange causes a loss of moisture from the cakes or other substrate, and this loss of moisture is the number ONE pinning trigger. Noobs worry too much about humidity, which is easily corrected with misting. You MUST mist to make up for the lost moisture. In the old days, people would toss cakes in a sealed up chamber and hope for a couple of mushrooms before green mold set in. Today, you can easily get three or four times the harvest the early growers did by using a proper terrarium that provides both fresh air and high humidity.
Furthermore, why you guys think CO2 is heavy like water and will drain out holes in the bottom baffles the mind. If all the CO2 settled to the bottom, we'd all be dead due to the power plants and cars, cows, etc., that are puking out tons of CO2 by the minute. The CO2 MIXES with the air and thus must be exchanged WITH the air. It isn't a sweet little layer on the bottom of your fruiting chambers.
As for only reading 80% humidity in a shotgun terrarium with a humidifier running in the closet, it proves your hygrometer is screwed. I can put a shotgun terrarium in an open room with the lid totally off and get higher humidity than that.
I seriously doubt anyone has lower humidity than I do. It's below zero outside and I use a large cast iron wood stove to heat my cabin. My properly made shotgun terrariums all read 95% or greater. I keep a cool mist humidifier running near the wood stove, and it's nice and cozy in here, even though there's nearly five feet of snow on the ground outside. RR
Co2's concentration in "air" is higher at sea level but it's still mixed evenly with the air. Yes gravity does work but it doesn't pull co2 out of the air to make it it's own distinct layer.
even more on the subject
RH You can't see RH, a SGFC should have no condensation on the walls, Condensation is caused by temperature differentials, if you have condensation you need to fix something. If you want to measure RH the bare minimum in quality for a hygrometer is a analog cigar box one that can be calibrated or a "synthetic hair hygrometer"
Pinning triggers debunked No1 triggers are. full colonization of the substrate and then slow evaporation of moisture off of the substrate. This happens with the interplay between high RH and FAE.
no2(secondary) trigger are everything else like light
Common Misconceptions that new growers always do Plugging up the holes on your SGFC will LOWER the humidity and give you LESS FAE which means more stale air more bacterial buildup and uglier shrooms.
You can dunk your cakes with pins on them
FAE is not a specific number of FAEs per hour. FAE is keeping your CO2 levels below ~600-1000PPM. Obviously in a huge room with only one small cake you would not need even 1 FAE an hour, In a two liter soda bottle with one cake you would need several FAE per hour to keep your CO2 levels in check.
Lighting requirements of mushrooms
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MagicMike407
mad scientist



Registered: 08/17/13
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: bodhisatta]
#19692331 - 03/13/14 07:14 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Haha and here it is again! Great post about true sgfc design.
The cool mist in the room SHOULDNT be necessary if the FC is to spec, but if youre not breaking 90 rH i see your concern.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: MagicMike407]
#19692341 - 03/13/14 07:17 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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I bet if I went and put a RH gauge in my SGFC I wouldn't get it to read 90% all the time, don't worry about it don't measure it, your cakes are going to have a perfect microclimate if you did the dunk and roll you'll have 99% surface humidity and that's all that matters, FAE is way more important and the RH inside the chamber is just fine for the fruit bodies themselves, if you have low humidity in your home just mist the perlite a bit more often to keep it hydrated it will work just fine and properly if you build it right and follow the damn directions to the T and not try to make your own uneducated guesses as to what improvements you can make. If you must then use the humidifier on the other side of the room or as far away from the SGFC as you can manage.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: MagicMike407]
#19692350 - 03/13/14 07:18 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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The humidity in the chamber doesn't matter as long as the cakes aren't drying out to quickly for you to mist them when they need it you are fine.
Edited by MudaFuka (03/13/14 07:20 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: MudaFuka]
#19692359 - 03/13/14 07:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: bodhisatta]
#19692626 - 03/13/14 08:12 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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In addition to everything said above, get the light closer and make sure it's a daylight spectrum lamp. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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DifferentialQ
In it for the long haul.

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 51
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19692761 - 03/13/14 08:40 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Awesome suggestions, guys, totally appreciate it!
Humidifier is necessary, I think. Even after making my SGFC by the book (1/4" holes spaced 2" apart on all six sides, pearlite soaked and 4-5" deep), without it my cakes dry out and blue while I'm at work and I can't keep the SGFC humidity above 65%.
My pictures weren't great, so you couldn't see that my SGFC is in fact off the floor - raised via shot glasses under the corners.
I'll move the humidifier away from the SGFC and banish any thoughts of attaching it to the SGFC.
No one mentioned if my temperature of around 65F is too low or not. From what I've read it should be a bit warmer, around 75. Will 65 just slow fruiting down?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: DifferentialQ]
#19692768 - 03/13/14 08:41 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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65F is fine I was doing 62F half of the winter.
shot glasses are not enough it needs to be more like 6 inches from any surface on all 6 sides including the bottom.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: DifferentialQ]
#19692776 - 03/13/14 08:43 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Shot glasses aren't tall enough use jars. and get it out of the corner if you can. 65 is a bit low but don't do anything stupid like trying to heat the chamber.
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Cool Mist with a SGFC - general setup critique [Re: DifferentialQ]
#19693087 - 03/13/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DifferentialQ said: Humidifier is necessary, I think. Even after making my SGFC by the book (1/4" holes spaced 2" apart on all six sides, pearlite soaked and 4-5" deep), without it my cakes dry out and blue while I'm at work and I can't keep the SGFC humidity above 65%.
Get it away from the floor then. You're supposed to have a shotgun terrarium in the middle of the room on a table, not tucked into a corner where three of the six sides are not exposed to moving air. It's not functioning.
65F is too cold. Run a space heater or whatever to get it ten degrees higher during the daylight hours. 65 at night is fine. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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