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 zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
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 Re: Mushroom Ignorance  [Re: Seuss]
#1972141 - 10/02/03 08:14 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
there are 500+ grams in a pound...
454 actually 
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 Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Ped]
#1972169 - 10/02/03 08:32 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ped said:
Don't be so harsh on your friend, man. If it weren't for places like the Shroomery, you'd also be as susceptible to those kinds of myths and misinformation.
I think a lot of us would.
It's not my intention to be harsh. I'm not saying someone is stupid and it isn't a personal attack or something, not at all! I'm not even sure that I'm right. I just try to give correct information or debate about it if I'm not sure.
It's pretty hard to express myself in English so it could sound a little harsh.... sorry.
  
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: zeta]
#1972265 - 10/02/03 09:17 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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> 454 actually
Doh... typo... hit five instead of four. (yeah, right!  ) Thanks for catching my error. Good thing I'm not designing rockets, eh?
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Just another spore in the wind.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!
Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,725
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 18 hours, 18 minutes
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Seuss]
#1972305 - 10/02/03 09:31 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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You know, the whole "something isn't poison because it doesn't kill" argument doesn't work.
Muscarine is probably the most common toxin (poison) among the mushrooms. It's also extremely rare for it to cause death. But if you eat some there won't be any doubt in your mind that you've been poisoned. It's referred to (by medical types) as SLUDGE syndrome, for Salivation, Lachrymation (tearing), Urination, Defecation, Gastrointestinal distress, and Emesis (vomiting).
In terms of the whole "defense strategy" idea, Jack States has suggested some interesting ideas. In many of these cases, the defense is against only a certain group of organisms. For example, Ibotenic Acid and Muscimole (the main toxins in Amanita muscaria) are deadly to most insects. His suggestion is that the defense may be very effective against a specific group that the mushroom needs to be defended from, but may be ineffective against most everything else.
Similarly, Psilocybin and Psilocin may be defenses against insects, or molds, or bacteria.
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Happy mushrooming!
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: ToxicMan]
#1972331 - 10/02/03 09:43 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Doesn't explain mescaline tho. If these alkaloids were a defence against predators the young suculent plants would contain the most. It's the old plants that contain the most mescaline.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Annom]
#1972808 - 10/02/03 12:54 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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im looking for references to DMT experience when you die, because I know I have heard of them. Actually, come to think of it, my biology lab teacher, who is as unbiased as can be about drugs, thinks people shouldnt do DMT because it is something we experience naturally only when we die. I do trust her when it comes to neurochemistry, alternative medicine, and whatnot.
As for mescaline not being produced by young cacti in defense, I don't think the mescaline is a defense to something attacking the cactus, but rather to dehydration and a difficult environment. Most teks for growing peyote recommend dehydrating the cactus to increase mescaline yield.
Just bear in mind, "One man's meat is another's poison" (or however the saying goes). And something doesnt have to be deadly to be a poison. I sure as hell consider poison ivy, well... poisonous. Doesn't kill. Just a rash. I think the only reason most human beings are attracted to drugs is to find something else. Animals are more interested in survival. Your not going to keep eating mushrooms if it's hazardous to your survival. However, I find that claim about the sheep interesting. Have any links?
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/opinion
.sean
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Annom
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Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 months, 25 days
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As far as I know the only one who stated that DMT is released when you die is Rick Strassman in his book "DMT: The spirit molecule". But he had no scientific proof for that.
You may find this interesting: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1
> Animals are more interested in survival. Your not going to keep eating mushrooms if it's hazardous to your survival. However, I find that claim about the sheep interesting. Have any links?
I would say that too, but I've seen elephants eating rotten fruit for the alcohol. They really like to have a nice time too
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domite
Puppet
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 2,978
Loc: Who's askin'?
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Annom]
#1973047 - 10/02/03 02:13 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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" Animals are more interested in survival"
im not so sure about that. Animals seem driven to do alot of things that "feel good" i.e. you eat when you are hungry, you drink when you are thirsty, fuck in mating season ect.
you find some shrooms, eat them as you have many times before, these happen to be psycoactive, and you trip. If its fun, you do it again...
Ya know?
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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As for mescaline not being produced by young cacti in defense, I don't think the mescaline is a defense to something attacking the cactus, but rather to dehydration and a difficult environment. Most teks for growing peyote recommend dehydrating the cactus to increase mescaline yield.
But once again, young plants are more vulnerable to deyhydration and and a difficult environment and should contain the most mescaline.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: domite]
#1975588 - 10/03/03 09:00 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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an animal eating for hunger IS survival though. Maybe they do enjoy alterred states of conciousness. Maybe they had a good trip. But I bet if they had a bad trip, they would stay away. I don't actually think psilocybin is a self-defense or anything. It just does happen to be poison to some, especially certain animals who's first priorities are survival. now, i don't believe the purpose of psilocybin is self-defense, because i believe mushrooms were meant to play a large role in the evolution of humans (i believe everything is meant to play a role in this evolution, but some things more subtle, some less).
As for the cacti not producing mescaline at first, our immune systems are weaker when we are younger. in general, we are more likely to die from bacteria and whatnot. It doesn't mean our bodies self-defense system isn't trying to protect itself. But it does take a while to establish a good healthy self-defense. I do believe that mescaline is somehow tied into the survival of the cacti, if only because dehydration produces more mescaline. Anybody know what the results of mescaline production are? Any reason a cactus would benefit from mescaline production during dehydration?
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/opinion
.sean
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Cacti and humans reach maturity at different ages tho. Depends what you mean by "a while". The peyote doesn't contain appreciable mescaline until it's 15-25 years old. The older it is the more mescaline it contains - since older plants are LESS likely to be attacked, what use does higher mescaline content serve? Surely the mescaline content should DECREASE with age?
I don't think the "dehydration makes it produce more mescaline" is anymore than a theory. You can dehydrate young cacti all you want and they'll still contain hardly any mescaline.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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entiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Xlea321]
#1976171 - 10/03/03 12:17 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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i doubt there is no link. maybe it does have nothing to do with survival, but there has to be some connection between dehydration and production of mescaline. I mean, just cause it doesnt make sense on a superficial level, or one that would make sense to human biology, doesn't mean there isn't some sense for it. :-)
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/opinion
.sean
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Anonymous
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RuNE]
#1976243 - 10/03/03 12:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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poison is a misnomer in this case.
psilocybin is a psychoactive compound found in some types of mushrooms.
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