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OfflineRespectTheFungus
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Mushroom Ignorance
    #1969097 - 10/01/03 12:01 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

My dumbass friend Andre THINKS he knows a lot about mushrooms but he really doesn't know shit so here are some things he thinks are true and I know you Mushroom experts will prove him wrong.

First off he thinks that hallucinagenic mushrooms are poisenous and thats why you trip. I have tried to explain to him that the chemicals in shrooms are chemicals not poisons.

He also thinks that some dumbass rumor is true that shrooms leave chemicals in your spinal cord and stuff like that. Which I know is not true with shrooms OR acid.

Ive been tripping pretty frequently lately, the past few weekends in a row. He says dumb shit like dude your getting addicted and that doing them so much or taking large doses is going to KILL me, yeah this kid doesnt know what hes talking about huh?

Please post what is the real deal with these dumb things he thinks is so that he will maybe learn something and not be so ignorant lol. Thanks Peace.


--------------------
"With a bit of luck, his life was ruined forever. Always thinking that just behind some narrow door in all of his favorite bars, men in red woolen shirts are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know."



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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RespectTheFungus]
    #1969115 - 10/01/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You are correct in everything you've said.

The trip is caused from what I understand by the fact that Psilocin is similar in structure to the neurotransmitter seratonin. Thus 'confusing' signals in the brain. Definantly no poison.

Chemicals in your spine... lol.. I thought they were supposed to be poisons? Do poisons reside in the spine now? laugh. Another falacy.

And addiction to mushrooms is highly uncommon, though I wouldn't say it's impossible. However... dying? Psilocybin has an incredibly high LD-50 rating (the ammount needed to kill). Asprin is more toxic.


So yeah.. your friend is a moron.  :lol:


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RespectTheFungus]
    #1969128 - 10/01/03 12:22 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

> hallucinagenic mushrooms are poisenous and thats why you trip.

Pretty much _everything_ is toxic (poisonous), including water. (Yes, you can die from drinking too much water!) Many identification books label 'magic mushrooms' as poisonous, but I feel that this is misleading.

As to your question, you trip because chemicals in the mushroom effect the bain in a certain way. Nobody knows the true mechanics behind the process, but it has nothing to do with your brain freaking out because a poison is killing off part of it or any other such nonscense.

> that shrooms leave chemicals in your spinal cord and stuff like that.

urban legend

> dude your getting addicted

Mushrooms are not physically adictive, though they may be habit forming. Of course exercise can be habit forming as well.

> taking large doses is going to KILL me

A very large dose will kill you... we are talking pounds upon pounds... there are 500+ grams in a pound... you do the math...

> My dumbass friend Andre ...[snip]... He says dumb shit like dude your getting addicted and that doing them so much or taking large doses is going to KILL me

Sounds like your 'dump ass' friend is just worried about you...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineRespectTheFungus
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Seuss]
    #1969151 - 10/01/03 12:31 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for posting guys, i will be SURE to show him this post and then laugh at him lol. I won't be too hard on him, but you know when someone says something and you absolutely KNOW they are wrong and they are stubborn about it and think they are right, that is so annoying. Oh well, live and learn right? Peace.


--------------------
"With a bit of luck, his life was ruined forever. Always thinking that just behind some narrow door in all of his favorite bars, men in red woolen shirts are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know."



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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RespectTheFungus]
    #1969248 - 10/01/03 01:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Just giving my opinion here, but i think technicaly, we ARE tripping on the 'poison' of the mushroom. The problem is, ppl automaticaly assume that 'poison = '

Lets look at it this way.
We dont dose animals because it is cruel right? Why. Because animals live mostly on instinct and arent intelligent enough to realize they are just 'tripping'. In other words, it scares the crap out of them. Now, we all know that poisons in plants are in existence mainly for a defense mechanism. So its safe to say that if an animal eats a poisonous plant, it will feel like shit, and therefore never touch the plant again. The poison has done its job. So wouldnt it be safe to say that yes, the chemicals in mushrooms are its defense mechanisms (and thus, its poison), but we have the intelligence to know it will not truly harm us in any way, and infact, enjoy its 'poison'?


Just arguing the technicality here. But i fully agree that when most ppl say 'poison', they mean bodily harm.



--------------------
~Happy sailing~


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InvisibleMarioNett
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RuNE]
    #1969354 - 10/01/03 02:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Has your friend actually seen the shroomery or similar drug sites like erowid.org? Ask him where he heard such rumors, and let him know that there are more credible sources of information available.


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RuNE]
    #1969374 - 10/01/03 02:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Are you sure that psilocybin is a defense mechanism of a mushroom? I just don't know, never read anything about it.

How about DMT?


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: MarioNett]
    #1969550 - 10/01/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

well, your body DOES break down dmt pretty quickly heh. our body naturally metabolizes it because its easier to survive sober than tripping out. our body has an easier time breaking down dmt (what since we are subjected to it since birth, or before). as for mushrooms, yes, it is a quite technically a poison, but hardly a dangerous one.

and chances are he "learned" all this from a local police officer, or trusty teacher  :grin:


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflineFlowGnome
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RuNE]
    #1969556 - 10/01/03 03:17 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lets look at it this way.
We dont dose animals because it is cruel right? Why. Because animals live mostly on instinct and arent intelligent enough to realize they are just 'tripping'. In other words, it scares the crap out of them.




Most people aren't intelligent enough either.


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InvisibleMal_Fenderson
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: FlowGnome]
    #1969594 - 10/01/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Ah, well, general scientific "literacy" is terrible. Taking humanities courses at a local university, and if ever I try to draw a parallel with something mathematical, there's an instance clam-up. And these are not abstruse mathematical things that I'm trying to mention---no. They're simple things that you would think most people ought to know. But oh well.

As to what the chemical action that mushrooms have is, well, even users who enjoy the effects and understand that it's a relatively safe activity propagate the idea that the subjective effects are somehow a brain-response to an invasion by toxic chemicals.

But what is the chemical action? I can't say that I know or have read anything on the subject that's a primary resource---it's all secondary/tertiary. Sure I can say that I've read that psilocin has a similar structure to serotonin and therefore causes stimulation of the serotonin system which accounts for the various changes in perception/sensation, but this certainly must be a topic that's been explored in some research. So, basically, does anyone know offhand of any articles which conjecture/hypothesize about the neurochemical action? Abstracts? Journals that I might try to search through?

But yeah, try to educate your friend---be gentle, though. It's not his fault; there's a massive amount of bad information out there surrounding pretty much anything, but this is especially true when the subject matter is drugs. C'est la vie.


--------------------
----
"Better Dead than Red."


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: entiformatie]
    #1969761 - 10/01/03 05:05 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well, Rune said that psilocybin is a defence system of a mushroom and therefor it's a poison. But I doubt that psilocybin is a defence tool. DMT isn't oral active, so DMT is not a poison???


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Annom]
    #1970013 - 10/01/03 06:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)


Quote:

Annom: Are you sure that psilocybin is a defense mechanism of a mushroom? I just don't know, never read anything about it.





I'm not sure. But i'd like to think so.  Even if it wasnt 'meant' to be produced for that reason, i'm sure the mushroom is satisfied with the results (that it got from its protection).  \=]

Quote:

How about DMT?




I'm not saying every active chemical in plants are meant for defences.  I'm saying i think the ones in mushrooms are. Who knows, why DMT exists in certain plants.

Quote:

FlowGnome: Most people aren't intelligent enough either.




Exactly. And thus, why you have misinformed dickheads running around trying to convince me that mushrooms are 'hard drugs man!' 'They make your spine bleed!'  and so on and so forth. :lol:
Because they got scared. The 'poison' worked.  \=]

 


--------------------
~Happy sailing~


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Offlineresin
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Annom]
    #1970016 - 10/01/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

What is it poison to? If you gotta eat pounds upon pounds of DRYED mushrooms to die, how would you be poisoned by some fresh ones? Is tripping 45 minutes after injestion a defence mechanism? By the time you felt them, yould have eaten the whole patch, so it couldnot be. Your freind is completely wrong, your right, dudes a dumbass, tell him to take his head out his ass :wink:


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OfflineCyledehysp
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: resin]
    #1970155 - 10/01/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Annom wrote:
Are you sure that psilocybin is a defense mechanism of a mushroom? I just don't know, never read anything about it.

in another thread, mjshroomer wrote:
The quantity of psilocybine and psilocine in certain species of mushrooms (notably some Psilocybe and Panaeolus species) is amazingly high, sometimes well in access of 1% dry weight, and typically 0.2 t0 1%. IT is interesting to speculate how and why the mushroom plant expends so much biosynthetic energy to produce a compound of no known obvious use to the plant itself.

======

I would say it is very interesting why it is so!

As for what psilocybin/psilocyn is doing in the brain, that`s a cool link (quite old, but if you haven`t checked "The Psilocybin solucion" out yet, heres chapter 5:)

http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psilocybin-solution/ch5.htm


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OfflineTantalus
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RuNE]
    #1970543 - 10/01/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RuNE said:
Just giving my opinion here, but i think technicaly, we ARE tripping on the 'poison' of the mushroom.  The problem is, ppl automaticaly assume that  'poison =  '

Lets look at it this way.
We dont dose animals because it is cruel right? Why. Because animals live mostly on instinct and arent intelligent enough to realize they are just 'tripping'. In other words, it scares the crap out of them. Now, we all know that poisons in plants are in existence mainly for a defense mechanism. So its safe to say that if an animal eats a poisonous plant, it will feel like shit, and therefore never touch the plant again. The poison has done its job.  So wouldnt it be safe to say that yes, the chemicals in mushrooms are its defense mechanisms (and thus, its poison), but we have the intelligence to know it will not truly harm us in any way, and infact, enjoy its 'poison'?


Just arguing the technicality here.  But i fully agree that when most ppl say 'poison', they mean bodily harm.

   




Well, sure if you're looking at the active chems from an animals perspective they might be poison.  Even to someone who thinks active shroom and edibles and eats them mistakenly, they might be poison (because tripping would be an undesireable side effect.)  But if you have the desire to trip, it's not a poison.

What I'm trying to say is it depends on your point of reference.  Which perspective do you want to look at it from:  an animals, an unwilling tripper, a willing tripper, or maybe even the mushroom's.  :smile: 

We make blood pressure medicine out of snake venom.  We call that medicine, not poison.  If you took a whole bottle, then maybe it would be poison.  :smile:

On a different note about the LD-50 of shrooms, I think even if you tried to commit suicide with dry shrooms, you'd just get to were you were tripping too hard to eat anymore and probably just wake up the next day with terrible diarrhea. 


--------------------
"A nation's hope of lasting peace cannot be firmly based upon any race in armaments but rather upon just relations and honest understanding with all other nations...

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed... The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people..."

President Dwight Eisenhower, 1953


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Annom]
    #1970993 - 10/01/03 11:38 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

well, im not claiming dmt is a poison, only that the body reacts to it by breaking it down, because it isnt too great for survival.

as to why plants have dmt, i doubt its defense. Humans have DMT.

you could look at it from a more abstract theoretical perspective and say that DMT is the tool used to create a transition between a state of non-existence (or maybe just existence without a human body), to that within the human body, as we experience DMT when we die. The experiences people relate tend to give off the message of an attempted transition, but not being ready. Ready for what? I believe death, and the transition that follows. But thats a p[ersonal belief.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: entiformatie]
    #1971504 - 10/02/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think the "psilocybin as defence" really works. Obviously because it isn't toxic in the first place (comes around 400 places lower in the toxic list than aspirin) and there are reports of sheep eating it to the exclusion of all other food sources (which implies others animals will too).

Looked at it from another viewpoint - I've heard mescaline is "protection" for the cactus, however the youngest cacti which need the most protection contain the least mescaline. The old cacti which need the least protection contain the most mescaline. If it was created for defence it would be the other way around.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinepattern
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Xlea321]
    #1971730 - 10/02/03 03:42 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

> I don't think the "psilocybin as defence" really works.

I agree. Its not poisonous. I'm still alive, for example.


--------------------
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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: RuNE]
    #1971853 - 10/02/03 05:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

> I'm not sure. But i'd like to think so. Even if it wasnt 'meant' to be produced for that reason, i'm sure the mushroom is satisfied with the results (that it got from its protection). \=]

:smile: It's a nice hypothesis, but are you sure that animals don't eat mushrooms because they hate the effect(trip)? Some animals like alcohol, why not psilocybin too? Could be true... but it's still a hypothesis, or do you have any research sources? mjshroomer doesn't know why it's so and I guess he would know if it was known.

> entiformatie: as we experience DMT when we die.

Do you have any proof for that? Or do you mean that we experience a DMT like trip when we die?

 


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OfflinePed
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Re: Mushroom Ignorance [Re: Annom]
    #1972058 - 10/02/03 09:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Don't be so harsh on your friend, man. If it weren't for places like the Shroomery, you'd also be as susceptible to those kinds of myths and misinformation.

I think a lot of us would.


--------------------


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