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Offlineaboutstairs
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Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared
    #19689043 - 03/13/14 12:24 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I've taken 25i twice before, and I had bad trips both times. I'm looking at getting some quality acid and shrooms soon (and possibly mesc later), and I'd like to know how these substances compare in terms of chances of anxietal reactions. Is it true that mescaline is friendlier than LSD and psilocybin? How do acid and 25i compare? Any help is appreciated, thanks.


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Offlineinnerspeaker1967
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: aboutstairs]
    #19689080 - 03/13/14 12:35 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

i had 25i 3 times. 1200 mics each dose
the first time was awesome. second time was okay. third was shit

i reckon your a lot more likely to have a bad experience on 25i then you are with LSD or shrooms but the thing is a bad trip on 25i is nothing like traditional psychs. a "bad" trip on 25is more physically bad 4 me. "real" psychedelics are blissful even if you hav a difficult stage in your trip. a bad trip on those suckers will root you


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Edited by innerspeaker1967 (03/13/14 12:36 AM)


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OfflineCaddilac
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: innerspeaker1967]
    #19689189 - 03/13/14 01:09 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

the differences between thoses substances is much of there route of action on the brain. phenez work different on the brain but affect the same receptors. the llikely hood is very up to you.


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Offlinebuddingshroomer
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: Caddilac]
    #19689491 - 03/13/14 04:41 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Hmmm for me, shrooms are harder to control at higher doses aka more likely to bad trip than LSD, I've only done 25i once at 1200ug and it was out of this universe amazing. Haven't done mesc but I will soon.

All in all, LSD is the gentlest in my experience.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: buddingshroomer]
    #19689529 - 03/13/14 05:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Psychedelics are named as such for a reason.

Bad trips are entirely up to you.
Even if you perceive it at the time as a bad trip,
who cares? Go with it.
If you're having bad trips, you have unresolved issues
or you're not listening to the vibe of the trip.


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: aboutstairs]
    #19689532 - 03/13/14 05:24 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

25i has most body load which may contribute to a bad trip.
Mescaline causes the most nausea which may contribute to a bad trip.
Psilocybin causes a tiny bit of nausea.
My vote: Try to find an LSD tab rated at 100ug.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


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Offlinekfmush
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: Webster10] * 1
    #19689987 - 03/13/14 09:53 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

25i and LSD are almost identical for me, except for two things: the body load on 25i is about 20x as strong as LSD and 25i is barely profound while LSD is extremely introspective and profound.

Taking too much 25i too frequently a couple of years ago lessened the magic of the LSD experience for me because the visuals and mental sensations were so nearly identical. I never found 25i rewarding, though. LSD has changed my life for the better.

25i I found easy enough to talk to others and never feel anxious, but I would get lost in my thoughts after too long and be confused. I had to limit what I would say and not get too involved in conversations. Only chiming in every now and then.

LSD would be the most anxious for me, I feel.  I would be worried that I would break down and cry and talk bout what a tortured mind I have with so many repressed memories. But I've only ever taken LSD alone, so take that with a grain of salt.

Mushroom tea I could drink all day and trip balls while still carrying on a coherent and intense discussion about anything with anyone. All my friends say they would never know I was on mushrooms if I never told them. My newest roommate was shocked that  I had "eaten 4 grams and was still so extremely coherent." The only giveaway is that I will have this big stupid grin on my face that people will comment on, or I might catch a case of spontaneous giggles, especially when I'm with my girlfriend (because I love her so much I can't help but giggle).

I get anxious when I take mushrooms with others and they have trouble "letting go." It makes me feel like I am being too intense and talking too much. I try to have deep conversations and other people seem a little confused by what's going on inside their head, which makes them withdrawn and shy. I say things like, "just let out whatever gibberish you're thinking! It will make sense, we are all on mushrooms." Then they don't say anything and I get withdrawn and a little depressed.

EDIT: I didn't completely address the question. I have never had a "bad" trip on any substance by my standards. I feel all trips, good or bad, are positive experiences that I can learn from. However, 25i has never sent me to a dark place nor has it ever taught me anything. 

LSD locked me into a dark place and taught me a lot.

My first mushroom trip was very dark and I have had very dark experiences since then, but I always enjoy them.

I would say 25i will give me the most fun with the least substance, making it the least likely to go into a scary state of mind. But GOD, the body load...


--------------------
It's weird, though. The other week, I just sat in the garden, slobbering. Just to see if it would ever run out. And it's amazing! Where does it all come from?
—Karl Pilkington


Edited by kfmush (03/13/14 09:59 AM)


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OfflineHarryL
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: kfmush] * 1
    #19690207 - 03/13/14 10:42 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I say bad trips in the person... Not the drug

Proper Set and Setting can reduce your chance of having a bad trip
many bad trips that I read about are because the person was
1) depressed
2) upset
3) around the wrong people
4) took too much for their experience
5) wrong time... Broadly taken
6) irresponsible actions, place, motive
7) poor preparation

Ie... Set and setting.... Don't under estimate their power

Even to experienced people though... Bad trips can happen... Need to have some idea what you will do if that is you... Plan B

Just my 2 cents

Good luck


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.


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Offlinegman7104

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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: HarryL]
    #19690706 - 03/13/14 01:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Its not really a particular drug. The only difference is that certain drugs such as LSD give you more control than others such as mushrooms. However mushrooms can be controlled once you learn it. And in my experience acheiving a good trip off shrooms is much more rewarding than off LSD.

Bottom line is mindset and setting. Also, a lot of times taking more decreases the likelihood of having a good experience


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OfflineAgentchewy
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: gman7104]
    #19691024 - 03/13/14 02:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Gotta love how people think LSD is the most gentle. Sounds like a classic case of "I took 500 mics bro" Truth is you have no idea how much you took and if you're not having basic entity contact, or merging with objects, or incredible kaleidoscopes around you than you probably never actually surpassed 250mics.


--------------------


If I knew the way, I would take you home.


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Offlinegman7104

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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: Agentchewy]
    #19691062 - 03/13/14 02:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Agentchewy said:
Gotta love how people think LSD is the most gentle. Sounds like a classic case of "I took 500 mics bro" Truth is you have no idea how much you took and if you're not having basic entity contact, or merging with objects, or incredible kaleidoscopes around you than you probably never actually surpassed 250mics.



I don't know anyone who would call LSD a gentle psychedelic, it is absouletely the craziest time of your life. You are in more control though, as opposed to shrooms where its a wild roller coaster ride of ups and downs


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OfflinepsilocybinjunkieM
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: innerspeaker1967]
    #19691095 - 03/13/14 02:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

innerspeaker1967 said:
"real" psychedelics are blissful even if you hav a difficult stage in your trip.



Hahahaha just no.

Eat 12 grams and experience a terror trip through hell, that isn't bliss. The intense mindfuck that can come from moderate doses can test anyone's will, again not "bliss".


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OfflineWebster10
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: Agentchewy]
    #19691277 - 03/13/14 03:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Agentchewy said:
Gotta love how people think LSD is the most gentle. Sounds like a classic case of "I took 500 mics bro" Truth is you have no idea how much you took and if you're not having basic entity contact, or merging with objects, or incredible kaleidoscopes around you than you probably never actually surpassed 250mics.



"You can never really know how much you took" "You've probably never gone past 250ug"
How can you associate effects with a dosage if you don't know how much you took :canthelpbutlaugh:


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


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InvisibleThe Doobie Dude


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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: Agentchewy]
    #19691303 - 03/13/14 03:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Agentchewy said:
Gotta love how people think LSD is the most gentle. Sounds like a classic case of "I took 500 mics bro" Truth is you have no idea how much you took and if you're not having basic entity contact, or merging with objects, or incredible kaleidoscopes around you than you probably never actually surpassed 250mics.



I've eaten well over 500 and that was me being unfair to myself trying to low ball everything so I knew I was at least eating 500mcg and I would still call LSD more forgiving then shrooms :shrug:


--------------------

"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head.  If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick
I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #19691378 - 03/13/14 03:39 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

LSD (or it's sister LSZ (- others too)) is the most transparent of all psychedelics.

this drug adds the least of any of it's own character to your trip, and it provides a very wide spectrum of effects for almost every mental faculty.

phens add a fair bit of euphoria which is distracting, but also have a pretty wide effect mixed with that body load.

psychedelic mushrooms are almost equally transparent like LSD, and are the best natural trip. (they do have strong taste, and some gut absorption irregularities that obscure the transparency, but they are elegantly simple and widely effective like LSD.)

personal dosage should be arrived at with titration - a series of experimental trials that start from 1/4 or less of the commonly used amounts - many people require less to get all the good stuff, and when they take more, they get periods of time in amnesiac states that are a pure waste of effort.

That said, there is a large population of enthusiasts that are specifically interested in those states of mind pre and post blackout, more than anything else. I cannot blame these enthusiasts, but that is not what everyone is interested in.
It is the very edge of consciousness.
There is no good map for this region.

taking too much for many people is a bad trip. even when you do factor in set and setting.

I prefer moderate usage.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineinnerspeaker1967
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #19691410 - 03/13/14 03:45 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybinjunkie said:
Quote:

innerspeaker1967 said:
"real" psychedelics are blissful even if you hav a difficult stage in your trip.



Hahahaha just no.

Eat 12 grams and experience a terror trip through hell, that isn't bliss. The intense mindfuck that can come from moderate doses can test anyone's will, again not "bliss".





to me at least. when i was younger i ate over 30 Psilocybe subaeruginosas and did an exam in the middle of a silent class tripping in-between level 4/5 and i was FUCKED i felt like i was dead but then i managed to bail and it turned BLISSFUL, as in thats what i meant. don't bother telling me it was a stupid idea i already know that. was still a life changing trip 4 the better


--------------------


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Offlinegman7104

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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: innerspeaker1967]
    #19691671 - 03/13/14 04:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

innerspeaker1967 said:
Quote:

psilocybinjunkie said:
Quote:

innerspeaker1967 said:
"real" psychedelics are blissful even if you hav a difficult stage in your trip.



Hahahaha just no.

Eat 12 grams and experience a terror trip through hell, that isn't bliss. The intense mindfuck that can come from moderate doses can test anyone's will, again not "bliss".





to me at least. when i was younger i ate over 30 Psilocybe subaeruginosas and did an exam in the middle of a silent class tripping in-between level 4/5 and i was FUCKED i felt like i was dead but then i managed to bail and it turned BLISSFUL, as in thats what i meant. don't bother telling me it was a stupid idea i already know that. was still a life changing trip 4 the better



The freedom of leaving the test made your trip turn around. Have you had been stuck there you trip wouldve been a nightmare.

I rarely have bad trips, I know what mindset to be in and how to control the focus of my thoughts during a trip, even with shrooms. When you have a bad trip you need to change your enviroment or itl stay that way. This is more difficult with higher doses.

The more you take, the more the experience is magnified. Taking more does not in any way increase your chances of a good trip. Usually its the other way around, especially if you become overwhelmed.


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Offlineelev8d
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: gman7104]
    #19691842 - 03/13/14 05:26 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I alway feel like shrooms are too goofy to have a bad trip on, but it's very possible of course. Just keep a good environment, and watch your dose :smile:


--------------------
I can do anything I want and so can you


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Offlinestarshepherd
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #19692225 - 03/13/14 06:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

XLcaps is spot on.

when tripping alone I always use a technique terrance mckenna talked about:

You think about all the bad images and thoughts your uncomfortable with and or are afraid may jump out at you and except that you dont have control and you give yourself over to the trip and ask it not to burn you. Something like that anyway.

"An examination of conscious" may be what he called it.

If your having bad trips try it out.


Edited by starshepherd (03/13/14 06:57 PM)


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InvisiblePeace of Mind 1
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: aboutstairs]
    #19692329 - 03/13/14 07:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know, it's weird for me. I find that I come across difficult stages more often on LSD than I do Mushrooms, especially on higher doses. That being said, I always found that I could snap out of the difficult trips much easier on LSD than I can on Mushrooms, so it's kind of give and take. LSD gets my thoughts racing and often times I'm almost just spinning this wheel of thought and every now and then it lands on something that isn't so good and it may bother me for awhile, but I have a far easier time managing to move on from it. However, I have had horrible trips and they are no joke, they aren't always so "blissful". I was speaking based on the average trip for me, difficult "moments" of LSD trips are easier to get out of.

Where as Mushrooms for me are a total roll of the dice from the start. I have had good trips on Shrooms 95% of the time, but when they're bad, they are fucking BAD. Mushrooms can be EXTREMELY convicting. I have felt the most intense guilt of my life on bad Mushroom trips, it can be pretty heavy shit. The mind fuck of Shrooms is what makes their "bad trips" far more difficult for me to snap out of. With LSD, as clear as the bad thoughts may be, I can focus my mind clearly on something else just as easily after I accept what it is I'm worried about. The few difficult Mushrooms trips I've had all stayed difficult till I started coming down, for the most part anyway.

This is subjective to the user though, so I can't speak for anyone else. Don't get me wrong, my experiences with both of these substances has been amazing far more often than not, but it IS possible with either substance, and WILL happen if you trip enough. Bad trips are for the most part just within ourselves though, nothing else. I mean, I suppose one can have a bad trip due to taking too much, and in that case, ride that shit out. It's funny, I never had a bad trip due to intensity, I've had bad trips on both lower doses and higher doses for more personal reasons. Goes without saying, if you have a bad trip that just so happens to be on a high dose, yeah, it will fuck you up.


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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: Peace of Mind 1]
    #19692344 - 03/13/14 07:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

No one here can tell you what works for you and all results you get from your 'test' will be completely subjective and inconclusive.

There are simply too many factors to consider. We can only tell you what works for us.


--------------------




Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source


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OfflineJake.Wizard27
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Re: Odds of bad trips on psychedelics compared [Re: DirtyTomFlint]
    #19692618 - 03/13/14 08:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

"To Fall to hell or Soar angelic youll need a pinch of psychedelic"
-Humphry osmond (the man who coined the term "psychedelic")

First off.. cant state enough enough enough
do your homework, do your homework, do your homework..
this isnt school this is fringes of the mind exploration.. :smile:

know the drug, know the dose, know your self..

Every drug has different dossages and as stated by many people above effect people in sometimes drastically different ways..
one drug of a certain dose can have a mild psychoactive effect
whereas another drug like the one stated above 25i, is active at such a small amount that it could cause some serious health issues at the same doseage level as say 2c-i

Before you introduce any level or dose of any psychoactive or psychedelic compound into your biochemistry have two levels of understanding.

1. understand the basic setup for a successful psychedelic journey as refined and perfected over the course of human history from the shamanic context to the scientific endeavors done by great men and woman across the board.

SET / SETTING

THIS is SIMPLE and at the same time so KEY..

SET.. this is about you.. Why are you taking this compound.. whatever reason it is, know your reason and use it to focus your attention before during and after the experience..
SETTING.. This is where you are having the experience. Dont reinvent the wheel friends. People have already gone before you with most of the compounds you are going to explore and have found that certain situations are great and other terrible..

for instance. if I wanna eat some magical fungus and go to a shpongle show, even though I love shpongle and wanna have a face warping good time im gonna dose very low.. on the other hand im in the woods, have been preparing for a week plus, I am taking these to explore deeply into my mind and soul, I have a friend with me, who will be doseing but much lower than me.. I amn going to go all the way and eat 5 to 7 grams dried cubes.. and I know at this level with my metabolism I am going to be holding on to the seat of my pants,, most of my trips have elements of the divine and the terrible. Elements of Feeling the energy of pure life and elements of not being sure if i deserve this thing i know so little about.

2. Understand the Compound itself.. Only take something given to you by a trusted source and even then be the most careful you can afford to be.. Research the active levels of the compound and dont push the limit until you gain a basic awareness of a lower dose.. I recommend as sasha shulgin did in his work, starting very low and working your way to higher dosage levels..

IT is always recommended to have a "Trip Sitter" someone who can watch over you , check on you non intrusively, and for the most part keep you out of harms way.. this is especially true with the more disassociative compounds and plants..

All that being said,, ramble ramble, depending on what kind of experience you are looking for no matter the compound, i would make it a point to be in a safe area, dimmed lights, ambient sound or music (non-lyric, i found works very well to compliment a space).. minimize interruptions, (this is why i like to go on a hike and camp out for the night),, minimize sensory input. Im assuming your not taking a compound to make watching tv look cooler, so shut off your electronics.. visualizers can be cool on lower doses with a few friends.. but in a heavy dose be with a friend or two and expect the ground to shake and your knees to tremble, this is a full on mystical experience, this is what they've been writing about since the beginning of known history, this is contact with the other side, contact with the mystery that somehow you've ended up in the middle of..

Keep in mind to, in the realms you will be exploring there will be some difficult experiences, there will be opportunities for transformation, there will be times when it feels like you are dissolving or dying, there can be periods of tension or confusion, higher doses of some of these compounds can lead to deep waters.. there are also many techniques that can be employed during some of these types of experiences to help..

one technique i use is humming and singing,, When I get to the point I cant feel my body and I am disolving into what looks like a pulsing energy of living color I start to sing, not even words really, just singing melody and humming tones,, the vibrations are centering and remind you everything is ok and you still have locale. 

Also reminding yourself that you took a compound and it will wear off can fight off the feeling that you may have lost your marbles or that you are gone forever.. these kinds of thoughts can trigger panic.

Stay relaxed, stay focused, and let the medicine do its work.

Take Your time, "Remember to Breathe" - Terence Mckenna, and "Trust Your Nervous system" - Timothy Leary

Peace and Blessings on the many illuminating journeys to come..


--------------------
:mushroom2:  "SAY SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING.. MAKE A DIFFERENCE"  :mushroom2:

“There is a transcendental dimension beyond language... It's just hard as hell to talk about!” ― Terence McKenna


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Edited by Jake.Wizard27 (03/13/14 08:22 PM)


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