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 shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London 
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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 "supplemented sawdust" 
#1959052 - 09/28/03 03:59 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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hi all. first of all sorry if this post isn't too advanced - the line can be blurry. 
so i'm moving on into new species, and i've got me supplies that now include oak sawdust, wheat bran, straw, poo etc. etc.
gradually i'm distinguishing between spores > liquid inoc / agar > grainspawn > fruiting substrate +/- supplements, and i wondered what best recommendations you lot had for the following two species, currently 90% through eating millet-based birdseed in mason jars. yes, i've searched. yes, i've got the GGMM bible, but i'd sure appreciate some tips, not least which species require a sterilised not pasteurised substrate, and which require additives:
hypsizygus tessulatus (shimeji)
lentinus edodes (shiitake)
same question also applying to pleurotus species..?
and... is it generally recommended or even possible to speed it all up by liquid inoculation (eg dextrose/malt) direct to sawdust?
here's a pic to sweeten the pill: 
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buh
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 YidakiMan
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 2,023
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For faster fruiting, use a high spawn rate and a quickly decomposing hardwood such as alder, poplar, ... , etc. Supplements like bran add nitrogen and increase yield. Pleurotus is one of the most adaptable species. It will fruit on straw AND wood. Supplementation is not necessary. A wood block inoc'ed with oyster would take longer to colonize than a straw bag, block, or tube. But it will fruit longer and heavier.
Supplements also increase the time necessary for sterilization. Wood needs to be sterilized (and quickly from its makeup). Straw needs to be pastuerized.
Can you share a shimiji culture? I would be your best friend.
Edited by YidakiMan (09/28/03 09:15 AM)
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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*bump* come on guys - shirley someone here has some recommendations on using sawdust for bag culture? my shimeji and shiitake jars are now all nearly 100%. i plan to do some g2g so the culture stays where it is, but....
 should i supplement the sawdust with bran? how much? and do i need to sterilise it?
should i try to 'shortcut' by popping a couple of grains in a jar of dextrose/potato water, with a view to soaking sawdust in the colonised liquid?
has anyone here done shiitake the bag way (i.e. not the log way) ?
has anyone here grown out shimeji on sawdust (i know una has, but una bought the substrate) - tips?
yidaki - ya, of course i'll share; right now i don't have agar supplies, but when i do, i'll happily send a plate. you may have to wait a month or two, but i plan to keep these alive. that's how i got mine, after all 
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buh
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YidakiMan
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 2,023
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Quote:
shirley knott said:
should i supplement the sawdust with bran? how much? and do i need to sterilise it?
Whether you supplement it or not it will need to be sterilized. You will need to sterilize a bran supplemented block longer. On page 154 in GGMM, Stamets suggests 2-3 hours in a home sized pressure cooker to sufficiently sterilize supplented sawdust. Here is a reduced recipe from Stamets GGMM as well:
10parts sawdust
5 parts woodchips
4 parts bran
.5 parts gypsum
(all by weight)
Quote:
shirley knott said:
should i try to 'shortcut' by popping a couple of grains in a jar of dextrose/potato water, with a view to soaking sawdust in the colonised liquid?
Sounds experimental to me.
Quote:
shirley knott said:
has anyone here done shiitake the bag way (i.e. not the log way) ?
Not I.
Quote:
shirley knott said:
has anyone here grown out shimeji on sawdust (i know una has, but una bought the substrate) - tips?
Not I.
Quote:
shirley knott said:
yidaki - ya, of course i'll share; right now i don't have agar supplies, but when i do, i'll happily send a plate. you may have to wait a month or two, but i plan to keep these alive. that's how i got mine, after all
Groovy. But if you are going to fruition a spore print would be grooviest. I'd like to do a little strain development.
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Hongosmeester
old sourdough
Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 246
Loc: East Bay (EAST BAY GREASE...
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<should i supplement the sawdust with bran? how much? and do i need to sterilise it?
yes use 10% bran by weight and you have to sterilise it.
<should i try to 'shortcut' by popping a couple of grains in a jar of dextrose/potato water, with a view to soaking sawdust in the colonised liquid?
I think that is a good idea. put some of the sawdust in the liquid too
<has anyone here done shiitake the bag way (i.e. not the log way) ?
I have but no carpophores yet 
<has anyone here grown out shimeji on sawdust (i know una has, but una bought the substrate) - tips?
I can't help with this one sorry
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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okay, sorry to bang on about this, but it?s action time: the shimeji jars are all 100%+ , so much so that it?s grown out through 2 tyvek layers and started to colonise the plastic sheet i have atop the jars in my incubator:
  .  
i have this bran - is it the good stuff? (there?s lots of types of ?bran?)
 . 
so....i could mix in 10% of this bran with 90% oak sawdust, soak in boiling water until cooled...(i.e. pasteurise, not sterilise).... or i have to sterilise it all then make the spawning superclean and hope for the best. i think i?ll try both.
here?s the ?tek? i?d use for the pasteurise option: www.kitchenculturekit.com/Mushroom/sawdust.htm
plus  i?m gonna be naughty and doublepost a link to this thread in the gourmet forum, in case it gets another opinion in the next hour or two.
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buh
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Hongosmeester
old sourdough
Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 246
Loc: East Bay (EAST BAY GREASE...
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any kind of bran has to be sterilised 
--------------------
Don't fuck with me
I'm a postal worker;-)
A zen master once said to me
don't do anything I tell you to do
so i did
<p><a href="http://www.whump.com/dropbox/other/ujname.html">Get yours</a>.</p>
<p>My <a href="http://tinyurl.com/6valr">Unitarian Jihad Name</a> is: <strong>Brother Neutron Bomb of Compassion</strong>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.whump.com/dropbox/other/ujname.html">Get yours</a>.</p>
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zeronio
Stranger
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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I have grown shiitake & Hypsizygus ulmarius (not tessulatus) from plain and oat meal supplemented sawdust. Supplements can boost yields but overall success rate was poorer since bran contaminates easily.
I suggest that you try them with plain sawdust/wood chips first and then try with the supplements.
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