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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Time to outlaw knives 1
#19634279 - 03/01/14 11:01 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/index.html
Quote:
Men armed with long knives storm railway station in southwest China, kill 27 and wound 109, state news agency reports.
At least 27 people were killed and 109 others were wounded in an attack Saturday in a railway station in the southwest Chinese city of Kunming, authorities said, according to state news agency Xinhua.
A group of unidentified armed men stormed the station, city police told Xinhua.
Doctors were seen transporting injured people to a hospital, the news agency reported.
One witness said on social media that she saw a group of men dressed in black with two long knives chasing people, according to Xinhua.
To all those anti-gun advocates that claim the reason guns should be illegal is because without guns, mass murders wouldn't happen... 
I guess it is time to start outlawing knives, sharp corners, and pokey things too...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Seuss]
#19634697 - 03/01/14 12:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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We need to stop baseball bat violence also.
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BlackWidow


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
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Banning knives and guns would stop these tragedies and end violence altogether. If you don't support gun and knive bans, then you support the violence.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: BlackWidow]
#19634964 - 03/01/14 01:50 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlackWidow said: Banning knives and guns would stop these tragedies and end violence altogether. If you don't support gun and knive bans, then you support the violence.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Or sarcastic. With a Reason link in his sig I'm betting sarcastic.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Echro]
#19634992 - 03/01/14 01:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Echro said: Or sarcastic. With a Reason link in his sig I'm betting sarcastic.
good on you i completely skipped over the signature.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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ManianFH
living in perverty


Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 14,741
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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i have found a way to file my fingernails to razor sharpness in case they ban knives. Ben Bernake better watch his back
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
Edited by ManianFH (03/01/14 02:58 PM)
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BlackWidow


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Echro]
#19635609 - 03/01/14 04:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Echro said: Or sarcastic. With a Reason link in his sig I'm betting sarcastic.
I wasn't being serious. Sometimes you need to be sarcastic to show how irrational some people are.
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Seuss] 1
#19636938 - 03/01/14 09:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Of course, this is used as a pro-gun point
Quote:
Twenty-nine people were killed and 130 were injured Saturday night when 10 men armed with long knives stormed the station in the southwest Chinese city of Kunming, the state news agency Xinhua reported.
If the 10 perps were armed with firearms, there would undoubtedly be more casualties. Chinese police killed/captured 5 perps so far and there are still more on the lose. That just goes to show how organized and prepared they were. Imagine if they had firepower to boot?
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Synthe]
#19637132 - 03/01/14 09:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Imagine if everybody at that station had fire power to boot.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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BlackWidow


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Echro]
#19637171 - 03/01/14 10:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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How loud is a gun shot? How loud is a knife stab?
Let's be realistic here, one of these weapons is a LOT more noticeable.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Seuss] 1
#19637790 - 03/02/14 01:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: To all those anti-gun advocates that claim the reason guns should be illegal is because without guns, mass murders wouldn't happen... 
I guess it is time to start outlawing knives, sharp corners, and pokey things too...
I don't know why you care about the small minority (24% according to Gallup) that want an outright ban on guns. What people want, according to that poll, is to make it harder for certain people to obtain guns in order to reduce (not eliminate) the likelihood of a mass murder.
It's easy to win a straw man argument.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Guy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Seuss]
#19638104 - 03/02/14 03:26 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Rocks should be banned as well, the right rock in the wrong hands can kill easily.
Thinking about it, socks should be banned also. I go to a shopping mall, and shove balled up socks down peoples throats, you've got another massacre on your hands.
Also Woks, a swift blow to the head with that and it's goodnight Vienna.
Because anything that can kill a person is exactly the same as an assault rifle and should be legislated for in the same way 
Quote:
Echro said: Imagine if everybody at that station had fire power to boot.
Untrained civilians in a firefight with extremists in a crowded train station.
It would have upped the body count for sure.
Edited by Guy1980 (03/02/14 04:03 AM)
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spore baby



Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 4,918
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Seuss]
#19638215 - 03/02/14 04:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe we'll only be able to get a Lettuce Knife in 5 years. Haha
All plastic no steel. Easy to smuggle onto a jetliner too. 
Like these:
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/92FK/FGX_KARAMBIT.aspx
Edited by spore baby (03/02/14 04:59 AM)
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Guy1980]
#19638807 - 03/02/14 09:51 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Guy1980 said: Untrained civilians in a firefight with extremists in a crowded train station.
Why would you presume they'd have to be untrained?
WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
Quote:
…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world......If more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death, areas within nations with higher gun ownership should in general have more murders than those with less gun ownership in a similar area. But, in fact, the reverse pattern prevails,”
Thanks Harvard.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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BlackWidow


Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Echro]
#19638842 - 03/02/14 10:06 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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If we could get rid of guns altogether, I would actually be for it. Humans probably shouldn't have the power to end a life with the ease that a gun gives.
But if we banned guns do you really think they would go away? They would be just as prevalent as illegal drugs. Gun prohibition would cause MUCH more problems than we currently have. Stop pretending that a gun ban would just make all the guns fall off the face of the earth.
Hell, you can now print most of the parts of a gun from a 3D printer.
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Guy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Echro]
#19638889 - 03/02/14 10:22 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Echro said:
Quote:
Guy1980 said: Untrained civilians in a firefight with extremists in a crowded train station.
Why would you presume they'd have to be untrained?
WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
Quote:
…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world......If more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death, areas within nations with higher gun ownership should in general have more murders than those with less gun ownership in a similar area. But, in fact, the reverse pattern prevails,”
Thanks Harvard.
I'd presume they'd be untrained because in normal civilized society, people don't actively expect to have to enter a firefight as part of their normal daily life. To be honest, if you do train for firefights against multiple aggressors on your commute to work, you're exhibiting paranoid behavior.
As for the study...
1. Straw man. Mass killings and murder rates are different things. The specific case in China that we're discussing is a rare instance of mass killings with knives. 2. Dubious science, and even to my untrained in social science eye, I can see heavy bias in the paper.
From skimming the paper I read a reference to rises in violent crime in the UK after banning of guns. Anyone with half an idea about this kind of statistical analysis knows it is almost impossible to compare international crime as the definitions vary between jurisdictions. In the UK, shoving someone away from you might be classed as a violent crime, whereas in France say, a punch to the face wouldn't class as violent crime. Apples and oranges, yet this study is citing it as fact! Further, it cites the UK vaguely (see above), yet neglects to use the UK for statistical analysis. Cherry picking data.
I know we're discussing a what if scenario, but if the assailants in the China attack had guns (and thought the commuters had guns), it's entirely possible the assailants who knew the attack would take place would take precautions against getting shot, whereas the victims would be unprepared. Regardless though, if it were guns and not knives involved, do you honestly think the death toll would've been lower?
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Echro]
#19638892 - 03/02/14 10:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Echro said: Imagine if everybody at that station had fire power to boot.
Right, because a crossfire in multiple directions is exactly the thing you need in a public place
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: Synthe] 1
#19638920 - 03/02/14 10:30 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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If guns were involved(both victims & perpetrators) the assailants would have likely been inclined to find a Gun Free Zone like a school where they could have maximized their kill count. So the argument about a cross fire is pretty irrelevant when you account for the incentives.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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Guy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
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Re: Time to outlaw knives [Re: BlackWidow]
#19638921 - 03/02/14 10:30 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlackWidow said: If we could get rid of guns altogether, I would actually be for it. Humans probably shouldn't have the power to end a life with the ease that a gun gives.
But if we banned guns do you really think they would go away? They would be just as prevalent as illegal drugs. Gun prohibition would cause MUCH more problems than we currently have. Stop pretending that a gun ban would just make all the guns fall off the face of the earth.
Hell, you can now print most of the parts of a gun from a 3D printer.
I agree - the USA is in a difficult position regarding guns, and any attempt to ban them would be a very painful process. I don't even think regulation is the key, as it's more about the attitude of Americans than guns themselves. The rest of the developed world has nothing on america when it comes to lone individuals/small groups enacting their violent fantasies and "going postal".
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