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InvisibleNWuser
journeyman
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Rainy Pacific Northwest
ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics
    #1963215 - 09/29/03 05:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hello, I am quite confident that these are non-actives, but I still would like to know what species/genre the following mushies are.

I found this group along the side of the road in bark that was laid down about 6 months ago. There were mushrooms growing in this spot a few years ago, but I didn't think they would pop up because of the new layer of bark.

I hope the pictures speak for themselves. This is in the Seattle area (eastide) and it hasn't rained in about a week or so. Some (most) are decomposing, but some of them look fully matured. They are between 4-7 inches in height, and there appeared to be no sign or bruising, brown or otherwise.

Thanks for any help and insight.







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Anxious for the rainy season....


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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
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Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: NWuser]
    #1963256 - 09/29/03 05:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Some type of Coprinus. Thats the Genus anyways, I'll try and see if I can match it to a species. Still, wait for a second opinion. I've never picked shaggies myself.


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Edited by Lizard King (09/29/03 05:57 PM)


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OfflineLizard King
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Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: NWuser]
    #1963279 - 09/29/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Probably shaggy mane, which was my first thought when I looked at your pics. The ring at the bottom of the stem is a good identifying characteristic.


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InvisibleNWuser
journeyman
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Rainy Pacific Northwest
Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: Lizard King]
    #1963308 - 09/29/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I see. Most of the shaggy's in my area are a lot thicker and seem to be taller.

I can see where they have a good resemblance though. Thanks Lizard.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: NWuser]
    #1963319 - 09/29/03 06:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with Coprinus, but I don't think those are Shaggy Manes. None of them seem to have the normal cylindric cap shape.

There are several species of Coprinus with fairly shaggy caps, most of them should not be eaten. One thing you can do to verify if they're Shaggy Manes is to look at the gills at the edge of where they're changing from white to black. Shaggy Manes turn pinkish or reddish just before they turn black, so there should be a pinkish to reddish zone at the transition from white to black. If you can't find such a zone, then you should consider those to be poisonous.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineLizard King
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Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: NWuser]
    #1963326 - 09/29/03 06:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The macro differences are probably due to the open habitat they were found growing in. No grass or anything to create some type of micro-enviroment and hold a bit of humidity during the day. They stayed short.


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InvisibleNWuser
journeyman
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Rainy Pacific Northwest
Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: Lizard King]
    #1963329 - 09/29/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)



This is another pic I forgot to add. Hope that helps.


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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
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Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: Lizard King]
    #1963334 - 09/29/03 06:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

See, a second opinion(especially from the expert) is always a good thing to wait for like I said.


Coprinus mature so quickly, would you expect to see some with the cylindrical shape still? Or is that a feature whcih doesn't change with age, they stay cylindrical?


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: Lizard King]
    #1964304 - 09/30/03 12:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coprinus mature so quickly, would you expect to see some with the cylindrical shape still? Or is that a feature whcih doesn't change with age, they stay cylindrical?



They open up somewhat as they age. And, of course, they deliquesce from the edges of the cap, so they don't stay cylindrical for a long time. But there are a few younger looking specimens in the group photos that are just pushing up and I would hope some of them would still be cylindrical. Even the youngest ones in the photos look only almost cylindrical.

The new posted photo clearly shows some pinkish shading at the edge of the black. So they certainly fit at least into the same subgenus as Shaggy Manes.

Pulling out the copy of Moser I borrowed from the library, he states that both young and mature specimens are required for identification. NWuser, are there any specimens with pure white gills? If possible, find the youngest one you can and cut it in half and show us what it looks like. Be careful to note if there's a very fragile, narrow, white, cottony ring on the stem.

The alternate species I find myself thinking these may be is Coprinus atramentarius, which sometimes is very scaly like these. The biggest difference (without a microscope) is that C. atramentarius lacks a ring at all stages of development.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!


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InvisibleNWuser
journeyman
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Rainy Pacific Northwest
Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: ToxicMan]
    #1964559 - 09/30/03 01:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)



this is the only other picture I took. It is from about one foot away there seemed to be another patch beginning to grow out of the ground.

I hope that is sufficient.


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Offlinepluteus
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Registered: 08/12/03
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Re: ID request - Non-Actives, but still curious...pics [Re: NWuser]
    #1965480 - 09/30/03 11:00 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that these are coprinoid mushrooms, as is shown by the general morphology, habit, and the sequential ripening of spores on the gills.

However, I disagree with the view that they "certainly fit at least into the same subgenus as Shaggy Manes".

The taxonomy of coprinoid mushrooms has been revised drastically in recent years, with mushrooms previously lumped in Coprinus being shown by phylogenetic techniques to have at least four independent origins, mixed amongst lineages of psathyrelloid and agaricoid species.

One clear and striking finding was that Coprinus comatus has extremely few immediate coprinoid relatives (only Coprinus sterquilinus and allies, and a few secotioid taxa), and belongs to a clade nested deep within the Agaricaceae. The other coprinoid clades are far removed and corrrespond to the traditional Coprinaceae, now proposed to be called the Psathyrellaceae as the original type genus has been removed.

While the new names for coprinoid genera (Coprinopsis, Coprinellus, and Parasola) have not yet fallen into common use, the results of this molecular research are well supported and will percolate through the amateur community given time.


Apart from a few well-known distinctive species, it is extremely difficult to identify these mushrooms even to genus through macroscopic photographs. Macroscopic features have been demonstrated to be highly unreliable indicators of relationship.

However, upon resolving relationships through molecular methods, it is possible to look for anatomical grouping characters a posteriori.

All the species in the Coprinus comatus clade (including the sequestrate ones) have been found to possess a seperable, yarn-like, somewhat elastic thick mycelial cord running through a central stipe cavity, attached at either end but not consistently along its length.

I doubt the mushrooms pictured above have this feature.


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