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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
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I can't help but agree with the thesis of Rev. John Shelby Spong, especially as elaborated in Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes. The New Testament WAS about a group of people's experiences with one Iesous of Nazareth, but the gospels themselves were written in order to fulfill the prophesies of the Tenach, and the Synoptics (Matthew and Luke based on Mark, Mark based on the 'Q' Source), adhered closely to the Jewish liturgical calendar. I learned a whole new dimension from Rev. Spong
This was precisely my coursework in undergrad philosophy 14 years ago, we compared the differences between each gospel to get a picture of each author's respective motives...I don't precisely understand why you're attributing all this knowledge to Spong. From day one we learned that clearly the Gospels were not written by the apostles of Jesus, we got a reasonable idea of a timeline when each was written, and began digging into the various political motives, the audiences each were being written for, etc. Even pbs seems to take a stab at explaining it, they take a couple minutes each to read, is a decent refresher imho.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/mark.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/matthew.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/luke.html
Because J.S. Spong did the VERY BEST deconstruction and demythologization of those gospels that I had EVER seen. He dissolved the assumptions that I still unconsciously had assumed, and brought together a series of facts about Jewish practice and meanings that I never knew, and which had been replaced by shallow Christian overlays (Solve et Coagula!). He explained a GREAT deal of things that I had long ago merely assumed to be their meanings, but were wrong. He went far beyond the fact that the gospels had no titles, capitalization, or punctuation, and could be interpreted differently according to how one paused in a sentence. That the names attached weren't the people IN the gospels, and that the gospels were penned by creative, literate Greek writing men, not illiterate laborers, is now something all but the most unlettered people know.
These PBS articles are very good, so thanks for posting them. Taking a supper break, and gonna read them now.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Give me a week and I'll reread Spong, has been a solid decade it seems now, maybe I'll glean something new digesting them again.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/
in case you didn't click The Storytellers tab, it includes write ups on John, Death & Resurrection, Gnostics & Other Heretics, & The Gospels of Thomas.... I personally find the subject matter less dry when I get different slants, someone well versed in comparative literature, a historian, a philospher, etc.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al] 1
#19798189 - 04/05/14 06:27 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with sex I think, although I would necessarily fuck people for the sake of simply fucking them myself.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
Different standards for different levels of Enlightenment. Seeking physical sensation is very low, characteristic of the animal kingdom.
Beings reincarnate or go to Paradise depending on what they align with...
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Memories



Registered: 05/09/12
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al]
#19798645 - 04/05/14 10:02 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
Different standards for different levels of Enlightenment. Seeking physical sensation is very low, characteristic of the animal kingdom.
Beings reincarnate or go to Paradise depending on what they align with...
I would love to see how you go around living without seeking physical sensations.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al]
#19799826 - 04/05/14 03:42 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
Different standards for different levels of Enlightenment. Seeking physical sensation is very low, characteristic of the animal kingdom.
Beings reincarnate or go to Paradise depending on what they align with...
I think you misunderstand this low-high continuum. The sexual motive of the Root (Anal-Genital) Center operates on that level. That's its function. The motives of the 'higher' centers also function according to their natures, simultaneously. The struggle you seem to face has to do with your relatively free will. At the level of the Root Center I definitely would want to have sex with other women, that's natural, the natural function of the Root Center for me, a heterosexual male. Jumping up to the Heart Center, there operates the motives of compassion and empathy, which in turn I have enshrined as the basis for my morality and ethics. The motive of compassion trumps the motive to have sex with another woman, because I know that it will hurt my spouse's feelings and damage her trust in my fidelity to her. Sexual monogamy is foundational in our marriage, so I choose to abide by the ethic, and in so doing, I transcend my sexual desire rather than identify myself with that motive.
If I have sex with another woman, I violate my own ethics, the shared ethic based on compassion, and permit a 'lower,' indeed, less conscious, more instinctual, more deterministic force to over-rule my inner moral compass. In this situation, my behavior would be admittedly 'low,' and it would have consequences on many different levels in my life, and my wife's. But, if we were in an 'open marriage,' or if I were single, as long as there was no power motive (Navel Center) involved, no 'force,' (rape) no manipulation (hence Manipura chakra), no emotional or financial blackmail involved, a sexual act could be the vehicle for mutual pleasure, but because we are not merely mammals, it could become the vehicle for psychosexual, psychosocial, psychospiritual, or even psychocosmic unions between us, with all centers (chakras) operating together, joining us like closing a zipper. This is why the Adi Buddha in Vajrayana Buddhism is depicted as a Yab-Yum of Samantabhdra and Samantabhadri joined in sexual congress. It is a symbol of the highest Reality which includes but transcends the Pleasure Principle of the Root Center. This image symbolizes Cosmic Wisdom and Compassion as One.

-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al] 1
#19802706 - 04/06/14 08:52 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
Different standards for different levels of Enlightenment. Seeking physical sensation is very low, characteristic of the animal kingdom.
Beings reincarnate or go to Paradise depending on what they align with...
That's bullshit! I call bluff on your level of enlightenment!
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 26 days
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: sex is merely entertainment instead of the physical expression of love.
Uh, so fucking what's wrong with that?
Different standards for different levels of Enlightenment. Seeking physical sensation is very low, characteristic of the animal kingdom.
Beings reincarnate or go to Paradise depending on what they align with...
That's bullshit! I call bluff on your level of enlightenment! 
I have to agree. Neither I would seek for simply "physical sensations" for only an instinctual reason, however what first should be thaught is acceptance and humility.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Treating someone like an object is categorically low. Some look at someone they think they want to be with and think about what they might "feel like".
Others think about someone that they might want to be with and they contemplate the uniqueness of their mind-nature.
See how the two are beyond worlds apart...
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al]
#19806654 - 04/07/14 02:05 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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just cause they're different, doesn't make the first one lower.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 26 days
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: just cause they're different, doesn't make the first one lower.
There's your enlightenment.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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The Doobie Dude


Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 13,498
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Re: Virginity [Re: Icyus]
#19807138 - 04/07/14 08:27 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I was never ashamed but I would not go as far as to say I was parading it around. I lost my virginity shortly after turning 19, yes I was a late bloomer but I had in my head that in a town full of full blown assholes and not very "hippish" people one could say I would find that girl that I enjoyed her company. I wanted someone who I knew I could love and feel comfortable with her and had a lot in common. I wanted my 1st time to be special more than anything quite honestly (a lot of guys don't want that but I really did) I had more than dozens of opportunity, I am a great looking guy but I just wanted that special girl.
Well one night I was at a buddy's house and we decided to have a decent sized psychedelic party, the rules where at this party you had to do some type of drug that made you trip. About 20 people showed up people were on LSD, Ketamine and alcohol and pot of course. So I dropped 4 strong tabs and smoked a blunt and killed an entire 12 pack of blue moons which those bad boys are strong. So I by every definition of the word is fucked up. One of the girls that showed up to the party started talking to me about my festival bracelets and she had gone to the same one and we were talking and I was being all cocky and talking philosophically because I was totally obliterated. Well at this point I could not stand anymore as the last 2 beers were starting to hit me and I told my buddy I'm going to crash in the guest room. Well no joke this girl that I was talking to for a little bit walks into the room after me and jumps in bed, and begins to kiss me. Now I don't think I was raped but I sure as fuck would not have done this if I was sober but we've hung out after the fact and she is cool. She started to blow me and then she rode me, I saw body parts mix match with other body parts and just it was weird lol. She rode me for a really long time because I could not finish and she kept going until I did. We then cuddled for the whole night.
I then one month later found the girlfriend of my dreams and we have been together for a while. I will be 20 next month and am glad that I had my first condom-less sex with my current girlfriend because sex with a condom was so lackluster that I tell my girlfriend all the time that I gave her my real skin to skin virginity. But so yeah that's the story of how I lost my virginity on 4 tabs of acid, blunts, and a 12 pack.
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"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head. If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
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It's like not thinking about food unless it's right in front of you. Recognizing things for what they are instead of seeking stimuli.
Meditation is when you focus and nothing interferes with your awareness.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
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Re: Virginity [Re: Icyus]
#19874379 - 04/20/14 03:13 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: just cause they're different, doesn't make the first one lower.
There's your enlightenment.
That is correct, different levels of Enlightenment see the same things differently.
That is why Shakyamuni said "no Dharma is definitative"; it is because the perspectives change as your levels in Enlightenment increase.
If someone does not change their views at all it may be because they are stuck, this is Character related because Character determines levels in Enlightenment.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al]
#19875584 - 04/20/14 08:12 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
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akira_akuma said: i read Genesis yesterday, blazing and listening to some real Indian vibes... and (lo) there was a lot of going unto in chicks, i must say.
In the Ancient Days, the women wanted to hear what you thought about Proverbs and may even ask you about your personal Parables and what they mean before you even have a cup of tea. They only wanted to share sexuality with someone that they would love all their life and even into the afterlife.
Nowadays they speak of flings and hooking up, utterly disgraceful meaningless behavioral patterns.
Ancient days where? It was only like that in places like England and America, because Puritan society completely forbid sexual pleasure, even among married couples. Other ancient societies, such as ancient Egypt and India and Japan, were very open about sex.
Edited by Crystal G (04/20/14 10:45 PM)
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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I'd say it is meaningful when the relationship lasts beyond the mortal coil.
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Uzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al]
#19924123 - 04/30/14 08:53 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
Icyus said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: just cause they're different, doesn't make the first one lower.
There's your enlightenment.
That is correct, different levels of Enlightenment see the same things differently.
That is why Shakyamuni said "no Dharma is definitative"; it is because the perspectives change as your levels in Enlightenment increase.
If someone does not change their views at all it may be because they are stuck, this is Character related because Character determines levels in Enlightenment.
Wut is level in enlightenment, bro?
plz explain. R u saying dat u can haz high level? o i c. wut lvl r u? im a lvl 13 wizard. I put on my wizard hat and robe.... wut do u have on?
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
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Re: Virginity [Re: Uzziel]
#20309826 - 07/22/14 06:37 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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The attention to our boring biological drives in the social arena petrifies me.
I'm sure the same social and sexual irregularities have presented in the past.
My own view is a depression on our lack of development when sex and the paraphernalia still dictate our thoughts.
Theirs many great minds and people expanding the boundaries, but I think the overwhelming stupidity and ignorance is catastrophic.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
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Re: Virginity [Re: Mr.Al]
#20309890 - 07/22/14 07:01 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said: I'd say it is meaningful when the relationship lasts beyond the mortal coil.
Aye to that..
You should be with someone if you would sacrifice your sexuality for them... i think.. i wouldnt judge anyone spending their life as an orgy either though, each to their own..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
Edited by Icyus (07/22/14 07:05 AM)
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