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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: Heffy]
#19606574 - 02/22/14 10:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Heffy said:
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imachavel said:
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Heffy said:
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not mashing too high or too low, forget dry versus sweet. And honestly arguing with me that a dry beer has nothing to do with ingredients is just plain ignorant. No such thing as a beer made with champagne yeast? Ok, riiight. It's automatically dry simply because of the active nature of the yeast used to make the beer
The dryness of a beer is affected by both the mashing and the fermentation. Mashing too high or too low WILL change the qualities of the beer. However it will not RUIN the beer as you claimed, unless you mash at temperatures way outside the active range of your enzymes. Someone who had excellent mashing techniques would probably start the mash at a lower temperature, to activate the glucanase and protease enzymes before raising the temperature and activating the amylase enzymes.
Champagne yeast can be used in beer, but will not "automatically be dry". In fact if you start a beer on a champagne yeast I would anticipate an extremely high final gravity(low attenuation). Champagne yeast is usually used as a "finishing yeast" to ferment the sugars not already consumed by the brewers yeast. This is largely because different yeast strains will ferment different sugars. For instance ale yeast will NOT ferment melibiose, but lager yeasts will.
that is awesome, you could start with let's say safbrew t-58 and finish with champagne yeast huh? So you think despite pitching and temperature that if a wort is sanitized enough that no infection will occur no matter how long a beer takes to ferment? My carboy actually has a HUGE scratch in on the inside, I wonder if it never gets completely clean no matter how much I clean it now, and bugs are living in the crevice 
If you're really worried about it buy a microscope. I bet most homebrew has hundreds or thousands of yeast cells for every bacteria. Even professional breweries often have SOME bacteria in their beer. The important thing is to make sure the wort is as sanitary as possible. Then when you pitch the yeast culture it has almost no competing micro-organisms.
I might just buy a microscope. I've already spent a ton of money on other shit. Bought a brew bucket, didn't like it, so bought a carboy so I could see the process through the glass. It'll be a few months before I can afford a microscope.
I think I was a little hasty about creating a powerful starter. I think the problem with yeast that is dehydrated is that you pitch it into a wort then it goes into a fermenter with tons of sugar and gallons to spread out and conquer. From what I've read, that in some cases is the problem with fermenting with dehydrated yeast in the first place. It's basically been in hibernation. Of course it's good to create a starter so you just cool the wort quickly, pitch and seal. But I guess hibernating yeast isn't up to the task of hard manual labour right away, it wants to get up, stretch, have a snack, then get to work. So a better starter would perhaps be a glass of water boiled but cooled, a teaspoon of table sugar, and then let is wake up and hydrate in the water while the mash is heated, the grains are steeped or the starches are removed and enzymes have activated the sugars, and then the grains filtered and the hops boiled. That gives a good two or three hours for the dry yeast to rehydrate.
It seems if anything that dehydrated yeast can easily be shocked by tackling too large of a job, causing a lag in fermentation. Once it gets going of course it really gets going, but once again who wants a stalled fermentation fermentation already takes long enough to want to add more time/unwanted variables to the equation. A microscope would be great, but also is there a way to test the ph of your wort along with a hydrometer reading etc.? I'd imagine bacterial activity would change the ph and be a good indication that you didn't boil well enough.
However I've also seen advice that once boiled and cooled it's not wise to throw your mixture back into the pot and boil again? Is this accurate advice? Why or why not? Thanks
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
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ApJunkie
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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: imachavel]
#19609363 - 02/23/14 05:43 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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imachavel said:
There is no "aerobic fermentation", this is called respiration. Yeast behaves quite differently in the presence of oxygen. Since you can't measure your oxygen it will be hard to tell how much to use.
a) super retardedly wrong about respiration.
b) that's weird, because I measure dissolved O2 is every single wort I brew. Tell me again how I can't measure it? Because I fucking do.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: ApJunkie]
#19610571 - 02/23/14 11:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said:
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imachavel said:
There is no "aerobic fermentation", this is called respiration. Yeast behaves quite differently in the presence of oxygen. Since you can't measure your oxygen it will be hard to tell how much to use.
a) super retardedly wrong about respiration.
b) that's weird, because I measure dissolved O2 is every single wort I brew. Tell me again how I can't measure it? Because I fucking do.
How do you retartedly measure O2 respiration mr. everything I say is fucking retarded as shit and you are so offended by everything said the retarded world internet fucking stupid people not mentioning O2 level readings.
Maybe you should have mentioned that while you were telling me fermenting above the recommended temperature is fine and won't create any inconsistencies with the recipe. So perhaps fermenting without measuring O2 levels may not be beneficial to fermenting same way not checking gravity levels and doing proper mash temps might effect your final product?
It's funny how all these things are so inconsistently un necessary to worry about, minor mash temp differences, fermentation temp differences, but here I had no idea you measured O2 levels in the wort how fucking retarded is that omg fucking retarded I should go die or whatever
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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ApJunkie
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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: imachavel]
#19611301 - 02/24/14 07:20 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's weird how you take two separate things I said and mash them together and get mad.
I said the respiration thing was wrong. There is anaerobic fermentation. It's just a fact that yeast has a dual phase metabolic cycle and one of them is aerobic, the other anaerobic.
warning, the below statement has nothing to do with above
Okay hopefully that helped you.
I measure O2 with an Anton Parr dissolute gas meter. At home I don't, because on a homebrew scale it's very very very unlikely that you will over oxygenate your wort because very few homebrewers are using pure O2.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: imachavel]
#19612434 - 02/24/14 01:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said: It's weird how you take two separate things I said and mash them together and get mad.
I said the respiration thing was wrong. There is anaerobic fermentation. It's just a fact that yeast has a dual phase metabolic cycle and one of them is aerobic, the other anaerobic.
warning, the below statement has nothing to do with above
Okay hopefully that helped you.
I measure O2 with an Anton Parr dissolute gas meter. At home I don't, because on a homebrew scale it's very very very unlikely that you will over oxygenate your wort because very few homebrewers are using pure O2.
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imachavel said:
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ApJunkie said:
Quote:
imachavel said:
There is no "aerobic fermentation", this is called respiration. Yeast behaves quite differently in the presence of oxygen. Since you can't measure your oxygen it will be hard to tell how much to use.
a) super retardedly wrong about respiration.
b) that's weird, because I measure dissolved O2 is every single wort I brew. Tell me again how I can't measure it? Because I fucking do.
How do you retartedly measure O2 respiration mr. everything I say is fucking retarded as shit and you are so offended by everything said the retarded world internet fucking stupid people not mentioning O2 level readings.
Maybe you should have mentioned that while you were telling me fermenting above the recommended temperature is fine and won't create any inconsistencies with the recipe. So perhaps fermenting without measuring O2 levels may not be beneficial to fermenting same way not checking gravity levels and doing proper mash temps might effect your final product?
It's funny how all these things are so inconsistently un necessary to worry about, minor mash temp differences, fermentation temp differences, but here I had no idea you measured O2 levels in the wort how fucking retarded is that omg fucking retarded I should go die or whatever
Get a fucking Anton Paar oxygen meter oh wait doesn't apply for home brewers. Hmm...
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19612926 - 02/24/14 04:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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thermometer. Hydrometer. got it
O2 meter. will get it.
perfect mash temperature, perfect fermentation temperature, ideal beer. Not perfect, not ideal, but not ruined. Not sterilized, absolutely not ideal. Got it.
Anyone against plastic fermentation buckets? Sort of off the subject, but as long as we are talking sterilization I don't like the environment plastic creates, I never really feel it's 100% clean. A carboy might be hard to clean to get inside, but I like glass a lot better
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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LunarEclipse
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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: imachavel]
#19613107 - 02/24/14 05:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said: thermometer. Hydrometer. got it
O2 meter. will get it.
perfect mash temperature, perfect fermentation temperature, ideal beer. Not perfect, not ideal, but not ruined. Not sterilized, absolutely not ideal. Got it.
Anyone against plastic fermentation buckets? Sort of off the subject, but as long as we are talking sterilization I don't like the environment plastic creates, I never really feel it's 100% clean. A carboy might be hard to clean to get inside, but I like glass a lot better
Now there's the big mouth glass bubbler with a mouth the size of a large mayonnaise container. Personally with a carboy brush and oxyclean life goes on with glass. I have started moving them around in dairy crates now two of which fit side by side in my big top and bottom fridge. The one with the freezer on the bottom that I can see the carboys really easily in. Amazing how much temperature my Oatmeal stout with extra oatmeal I made using two yeasts one Pacman one Neobrittania 1945 a true top cropping yeast got the one fermenting at 65 the Neo at 67 with the clever use of a blanket in the refrigerator mentioned earlier. The fridge itself is at 56 inside now and the carboys that much warmer. They have warmed the fridge up 6 degrees as they have dropped 6 degrees. Temperature in, temperature out.
Blood in, blood out.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19613443 - 02/24/14 06:24 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Interesting, so your fermentation warmed the fridge up 6 degrees huh? I never thought of that. A fermentation at 72 F might very well warm the carboy up to 78 F huh? Way too high for a recipe that is supposed to be fermented at 68 F.
I just made some wine with this champagne yeast, and am loving the character this champagne yeast has given this wine. In a few weeks when I've drinken all this wine, I'm thinking of doing a recipe called a gray pale and using champagne yeast, it will apparently ferment very dryly, it uses one grain bill:
6.5# Pale malt
It also uses a high mash at 157 F and then a double sparge. But the cool thing, you are supposed to add fruit to the recipe in the later stage of fermentation, to sweeten it up. I can't wait to try it, but a little broke at the moment, I have to finish this wine I think, before I start on another beer. I'll look into that big mouth glass bubbler you mentioned
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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LunarEclipse
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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: imachavel]
#19615466 - 02/25/14 06:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said: Interesting, so your fermentation warmed the fridge up 6 degrees huh? I never thought of that. A fermentation at 72 F might very well warm the carboy up to 78 F huh? Way too high for a recipe that is supposed to be fermented at 68 F.
I just made some wine with this champagne yeast, and am loving the character this champagne yeast has given this wine. In a few weeks when I've drinken all this wine, I'm thinking of doing a recipe called a gray pale and using champagne yeast, it will apparently ferment very dryly, it uses one grain bill:
6.5# Pale malt
It also uses a high mash at 157 F and then a double sparge. But the cool thing, you are supposed to add fruit to the recipe in the later stage of fermentation, to sweeten it up. I can't wait to try it, but a little broke at the moment, I have to finish this wine I think, before I start on another beer. I'll look into that big mouth glass bubbler you mentioned
The fridge was at 50 the carboys 72. The carboys cooled to 66 while the fridge warmed to 56. But remember outside the fridge it's like 40 at night. So those yeast are keeping that fridge warmer than it would otherwise be. Keeping themselves warm by eating sugar and shitting alcohol.
Good boys.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Heffy
BrauMeister



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Re: thinking of brewing oatmeal beer and a few questions about fermenting [Re: ApJunkie]
#19616852 - 02/25/14 02:44 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said:
Quote:
imachavel said:
There is no "aerobic fermentation", this is called respiration. Yeast behaves quite differently in the presence of oxygen. Since you can't measure your oxygen it will be hard to tell how much to use.
a) super retardedly wrong about respiration.
b) that's weird, because I measure dissolved O2 is every single wort I brew. Tell me again how I can't measure it? Because I fucking do.
 Fermentation
Quote:
Fermentation takes place in the absence of oxygen
Aerobic Respiration.
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