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Invisible0toxic0
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 181
bisexuality *DELETED*
    #1956967 - 09/27/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

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OfflineDrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 449
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Re: bisexuality [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1956991 - 09/27/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Just ignore it, eventually it should go away. The voice telling you it is wrong is YOU. Try telling the voice that its not wrong, but I guess it'd go with abandoning your preconceived notions of morals, and learning to build them using reason and rationality rather than with your Islamic beliefs.

You said you used to be a hardcore Muslim. There is nothing wrong with reliegion, in fact some people use it in order to not think for themselves, but follow a guideline thats already set out rather than making mature decisions.

Mebbe some mushrooms would help with it? Anyway, I hope I helped some.

PS - Go for it! But remember-Girls are the devil!!! ;-)


--------------------
AH HA....


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OfflineGasoline15
Wah Wah

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 29
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Re: bisexuality [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1957036 - 09/27/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

that is a nice lil nugget madd toker,anyway..

I know it's hard to erase any preconcieved notions that you have,and it's hard to know what you really want and believe in,and alot of people go thru sexual phases,I know I did,and there is nothing wrong with that,you could be straight,you could be gay,bisexual,or whateva...

Just give it time,and eventually what you want will come to you,and you'll be completly able to make the choice..

GOOD LUCK!


--------------------
"Wanted it anyway,
Public display of affection,
burnt out on the sidewalk,
feelings in hindsight"
-Stoned Apple Pies


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OfflinePsychogenik
CerebellumDamage<--

Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 32
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Re: bisexuality [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1957055 - 09/27/03 01:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

well in my opinion the voice you hear in the back of your head telling you not to do it is your conditioned self, the self made up in part by the way you were brought up. I think that you should start trusting your own experiences and decide upon what you feel if what you do is right or wrong.Well i hope i made myself clear..


--------------------
I'll eat myself if i have to!


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: bisexuality [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1957156 - 09/27/03 02:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

you don't "erase" the information from your mind.

You just think it out - think about it and think about why they thought it was bad back then and think about why its no big deal now.

Also think about the fact that religion is fucking stupid.

Is this girl bisexual? You could even tell her basically what you told us if you know she's "experienced" and she may kind of assist you and be your guide in your first relationship of this kind.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (09/27/03 02:35 PM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: bisexuality [Re: Strumpling]
    #1957189 - 09/27/03 02:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

In my - ever so humble - opinion, if your inner voice tells you it's not right, that probably means you're not ready for it just yet. Perhaps you need to grow into the idea of being bisexual, perhaps it's a manifestation of loneliness, etc.
Anyway, what's causing your voice to tell you it's wrong is up to you to decide. I can't solve that for you.

Best of luck in growing :wink:


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: bisexuality [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1957792 - 09/27/03 07:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

well if it is just religious teachings holding you back, then go for it and fuck those religious teachings :wink:

If its your mind and not somebody ELSE'S that's holding you back, however, then yeah hold off and figure yourself out first.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineZahid
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Re: bisexuality [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1958000 - 09/27/03 09:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

As-salaamu'alaikum,

I don't know if you are still a Muslimah or not, but you might find Irshad Manji's recently printed book The Trouble with Islam interesting - as it's written by a liberal, feminist lesbian Muslim woman who is calling for a total reform within the Islamic faith to adapt with contemporary times; she stresses the lost Muslim value of Ijtihaad [independent reasoning], and tackles issues from deep-seated anti-Semitism, homophobia, to the literal interpretation of the Holy Qur'an. She speaks her mind well, almost too well.

Best of luck on your journey.



--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: bisexuality [Re: Zahid]
    #1958110 - 09/27/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

wow. that sounds like a very good recommendation.

i may just read that myself. it sounds interesting.


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: bisexuality [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1959319 - 09/28/03 12:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

i used to be a hardcore muslim when i was younger...



I hope you never believed that the Quran is the Word of God, because if you did you may still need a lot of deprogramming before you can be free.


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Invisible0toxic0
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 181
Re: bisexuality *DELETED* [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1960011 - 09/28/03 05:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by 0toxic0

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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: bisexuality [Re: 0toxic0]
    #1960421 - 09/28/03 07:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think you're already well on the way. You recognize that you're past conditioning is affecting how you feel about sexuality. It bothers you that there's the voice telling you you're attraction is wrong. I don't know how many preconcieved notions i've disposed of over the years or how many I will eventually shed as time goes on, but there are many.

There is a transition time between knowing something intellectually and knowing it in your body and soul. Right now you're intellectually aware that there's nothing wrong with being attracted to a woman but considering your upbringing its still an area of discomfort, and that's ok. Just remember to trust yourself. We don't give our bodies enough credit, they really do know what we need. When I was 12 I started questioning my sexuality. I did like boys but I found myself attracted to girls in some way as well, since I like boys I tricked myself into thinking I was totally hetero... coz its easier. I was never a homophobe, for a long time I'd say "I'm hetero but theres nothing wrong with being gay" I was relieved I didn't have to deal with all the judgement of people around me. Eventually I let myself realize that I was at least bicurious and I'll openly tell anyone who asks that I'm interested in girls. I still havn't had a "girlfriend" although I've done a little experimentation with a friend of mine.... I'm 19 now btw... My teenage years were spent figuring this and many other things out.

I think once we realize something about ourselves it can take a little time to accept and love it. Good luck with this. All I can say is trust yourself, when you catch yourself allowing the jaded opinions of others inluence how or who you love, step back and say no to that voice.

~Jenn



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Invisiblesimplemachine
Manfly
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Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
Re: bisexuality [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1960566 - 09/28/03 08:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I suggest you learn about conditioning. The books of Robert Anton Wilson (esp. Cosmic Trigger and Prometheus Rising) are a good start. When I read Cosmic Trigger it blew my rationalist/dogmatic scientists conditioning right out the window and gave me a better understanding of the universe and humanity. He is an exellent writer who has a very unique and interesting insight into human thought especially conditioning. I hope it helps, peace.


--------------------
     


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Offlinecaolite
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 276
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Re: bisexuality [Re: Zahid]
    #1962006 - 09/29/03 07:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
As-salaamu'alaikum,

I don't know if you are still a Muslimah or not, but you might find Irshad Manji's recently printed book The Trouble with Islam interesting - as it's written by a liberal, feminist lesbian Muslim woman who is calling for a total reform within the Islamic faith to adapt with contemporary times; she stresses the lost Muslim value of Ijtihaad [independent reasoning], and tackles issues from deep-seated anti-Semitism, homophobia, to the literal interpretation of the Holy Qur'an. She speaks her mind well, almost too well.

Best of luck on your journey.








One thing I don't get about people who want a religion to adapt to modern times is this. If you took that religion and adapted it to modern times, it would basically cease to be that same religion at all. See, in that case why don't these people just say hey I have a version of Muslim that is politically correct or some junk?

Religions were never made with automobiles, mass capitalism, and jets flying around in mind. The fact that old religions are practiced in modified updated forms seem silly to me, if that person claims to be of that religion. If you make a modern version of Islam or anything, and try to make it politically correct, or have some kind of neo philosophical beliefs, then it is not the same freakin religion LOL. Take Cao Dai for instance (no my name has nothing to do with it). It is like a combination of 3 diffrent religions. They do not go by calling it any one of the three only modified, it is the three, hence something diffrent.

Anyways, NiamhNyx, your story sounds kind of like me, except I am only comfortable saying that I could be bi, and only to very specific people would I ever talk about or admit it to. I am 19, however I am not comfortable with my feelings. In all honesty I just don't feel like I could be with a gy. I have experiemented with a friend (and another story which no one would ever understand so I won't talk about it), and on a very rare occasion I might see a guy in passing that I think could be considered attractive, but I like girls more.

I am not a very sexual person at all to begin with, so maybe that plays a part in it. I figure why should I have to put up with a label that doesn't actually reflect who I am. When people think of gay or bi, even if they don't have a problem with it, it is still this big filter people put up. One is not just "Joe Average" one is "Joe Average who is Bi" I hate that being something that would be used to describe me, because my sexuality is such a small minute thing to me, and people put such emphasis on sexuality, I dunno, its like I have gotten more ridicule and crap from friends and others about being almost non-sexual (from gay and straight alike) than even choosing a sexual standpoint. I don't understand, being non-sexual/possibly bi if I was, is worse than being outright gay by todays standards somehow. I can see it now, non-sexual pride ralleys with just a white flag LOL.

Funny I live pretty close to you too NiamhNyx LOL.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: bisexuality [Re: caolite]
    #1962018 - 09/29/03 07:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

caolite said:
One thing I don't get about people who want a religion to adapt to modern times is this. If you took that religion and adapted it to modern times, it would basically cease to be that same religion at all. See, in that case why don't these people just say hey I have a version of Muslim that is politically correct or some junk?

Religions were never made with automobiles, mass capitalism, and jets flying around in mind. The fact that old religions are practiced in modified updated forms seem silly to me, if that person claims to be of that religion. If you make a modern version of Islam or anything, and try to make it politically correct, or have some kind of neo philosophical beliefs, then it is not the same freakin religion LOL. Take Cao Dai for instance (no my name has nothing to do with it). It is like a combination of 3 diffrent religions. They do not go by calling it any one of the three only modified, it is the three, hence something diffrent.




So, is the solution to not change the religion or come up with a new one that will only work for so long, also?

Perhaps if religion wasn't turned into a code of conduct or a method of controlling people, of hooking people to a belief so they can be led to whatever waterhole the people in control wish to lead them, religion wouldn't have to be continously updated and changed to fit current needs.

Doesn't changing the ideas of a certain religion sort of go agansit one of their most important messages, anyways? Is the religion suspossed to change to fit the people or are the people suspossed to change to fit the religion?

Organized religion = Falseness. Hhm.. we are all individual people with fee will. Let us all adapt some generalization of our faith. Generalization = bad. But yet some people continue to generalize.. Continue to belittle your individuality, and you will have it taken away. Sign up as a pawn in an anthill, and you will do the Queen's bidding. Fuck that.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
Male

Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: bisexuality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1962516 - 09/29/03 01:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A lot of "deprogramming" the mentalities you've grown up with is rational discussing and thinking about it. For instance, Isamic religion states that bisexuality is wrong, but why? Usually the only reason why religions state that things are wrong is to condition people, like others have said in this thread. If that's the only reason that you can think of why it would be wrong, and you can acknowledge that when you confronted by the voice in your mind telling you that it's wrong, that voice will get quieter and quieter. It can also help to focus on the positives of a relationship. The closeness of being with a person etc.. Good luck, and don't be afriad to discover yourself.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: bisexuality [Re: caolite]
    #1962794 - 09/29/03 03:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

caolite said:


Anyways, NiamhNyx, your story sounds kind of like me, except I am only comfortable saying that I could be bi, and only to very specific people would I ever talk about or admit it to. I am 19, however I am not comfortable with my feelings. In all honesty I just don't feel like I could be with a gy. I have experiemented with a friend (and another story which no one would ever understand so I won't talk about it), and on a very rare occasion I might see a guy in passing that I think could be considered attractive, but I like girls more.

I am not a very sexual person at all to begin with, so maybe that plays a part in it. I figure why should I have to put up with a label that doesn't actually reflect who I am. When people think of gay or bi, even if they don't have a problem with it, it is still this big filter people put up. One is not just "Joe Average" one is "Joe Average who is Bi" I hate that being something that would be used to describe me, because my sexuality is such a small minute thing to me, and people put such emphasis on sexuality, I dunno, its like I have gotten more ridicule and crap from friends and others about being almost non-sexual (from gay and straight alike) than even choosing a sexual standpoint. I don't understand, being non-sexual/possibly bi if I was, is worse than being outright gay by todays standards somehow. I can see it now, non-sexual pride ralleys with just a white flag LOL.

Funny I live pretty close to you too NiamhNyx LOL.





I've observed that it's a lot easier for girls to admit to being bi than it is for guys. That's probably because most *guys* are turned on by bi girls and freaked out by bi guys. Lame? I think so. But I understand why you'd only wanna admit it to a few close people. That's where I was a year or so ago. I don't advertise it or anything, so I'm pretty sure only a few people know for a fact anyways, but if anyone asked I'd probably tell them I'm curious.

I know what you're saying about not wanting to be defined by your sexuality. Sexuality is a part of me, it isn't *me.* Once you've got the bi or gay label people identify you with that rather than with other identifying traits. But who cares? If other people want to use my sexuality as a way to define me they can go right ahead.


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OfflineDigs
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Re: bisexuality [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1962815 - 09/29/03 03:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
But who cares? If other people want to use my sexuality as a way to define me they can go right ahead. 




I know it's wrong to laugh at these people and I should just feel sorry for them.  But good lord some people are waaaaaaaaay off course lol :laugh:


Edited by Digs (09/29/03 03:23 PM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: bisexuality [Re: Digs]
    #1962884 - 09/29/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

What was that supposed to mean?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: bisexuality [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1962935 - 09/29/03 04:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

> But good lord some people are waaaaaaaaay off course lol

We must each find our own path in life and make of it the best that we can.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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