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Offlinemonoculture
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19617661 - 02/25/14 05:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have the 610x484mm filter, which is a nice size to be able to do anything needed. Also the size is still ok to handle. I put the flowhood away when it's not used, but with such a size it would be a static setup.
But it will be great to work with, much space makes it much easier to maintain sterile procedures. There will be a big blower needed for it though, or maybe 2 of those of the set.

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19619456 - 02/26/14 03:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, and it will give me a good space to work with Substrate bags.

I already have a blower from a industrial vacuum cleaner. I'm Not sure if it will be enough dough. I don't have the specs.
But I think I will do it right, and by a new and clean blower that I know it will work with this filter. and keep this old one for other project.

By the way, what blower(s) would you use with this filter to get a proper air flow?

Edited by zedacacia (02/26/14 04:27 AM)

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Offlinemonoculture
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19625586 - 02/27/14 10:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Click

0,915*0.610 = 0,55815 m2

0,5m/sec x 0.55815 = 0.279075 m3/sec

0,279075 * 60 = 16.7445 m3/min * 60 = 1004.67 m3/h

So you need a blower that gives you around 1000m3/hour at 185 +/- 15 Pa back-pressure.

Edited by monoculture (02/27/14 11:14 AM)

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19629231 - 02/28/14 05:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks, I already had find those values as well :smile: It's good that you confirmed my math.

I've been searching and searching, and I found this matching blower
At 198,50€ + shipping costs. Until now it's the cheaper i found. Do you know any cheaper online store?

Looking at the diagram, this blower gets 1002M3\h at 185Pa, It's close enough. :wink:

Edit: I found the same model on UK at 152€ + shipping.

Edited by zedacacia (02/28/14 05:30 AM)

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Offlinemonoculture
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19629256 - 02/28/14 05:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's real close indeed. I just looked at some sites for you, but prices for such a blower are around that. Also most sites don't publish the Pa graph so you have to guess.

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19629506 - 02/28/14 08:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, On the store that I found this blower, they had a few models, then I had to find the manufacturer website to see the technical data.

They've a very good searching tool, where you can search models with a specific the data-flow and pressure. This was the cheapest of that list.

You can have the Link for this product selector.
I think is a great tool for those that are also looking at blowers to mach their filters.
Then you just have to search for those specific models that mach your requirements on the stores. Makes the search much easier.

Cheers

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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19630115 - 02/28/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Indeed, nice link. Let me know how your build goes. :wink:

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19643093 - 03/03/14 03:57 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Ok, I will post some pictures of the build as soon I get the materials :smirk:

I just remembered that I forgot to add the pressure of the pre-filter. I hope this can handle it!!
I've ordered a square meter of pré filter "foam" from the same site as the HEPA, but it doesn't have any details, so I have to Hope it's ok,

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19644936 - 03/03/14 03:20 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

The prefilter adds resistance, not pressure.  However, for calculation purposes you need to include it.  It's always better to get a larger blower than expected because you can always stack up two prefilters or block off part of the intake to reduce the flow if necessary.
RR


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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19646872 - 03/03/14 08:48 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

If you make a box around the blower and make the surface area the air is sucked into big enough, it will not give any noticeable decrease of flow.
The only difference I notice running mine with the same prefilter material is that it is somewhat more quiet. (still noisy though)
If you work close to the filter like RR shows in his video's, I can't imagine a flow a bit lower than 0.5M/sec would harm your work.
I try to work as close to the filter as I'm comfortable with. As I'm still a beginner I get worried about spilling agar onto the filter surface and such, which would be a pain to clean and invite contams to live on the filter surface.
I guess experience is the thing here, the first time I poured agar, I spilled a drop which fell exactly along the edge of my stack of dishes, making things messy.
Now, I make very sure that I do the twist motion right with the bottle to make sure no drop will form at the bottleneck.
Also my movement away from the dish is a bit faster so if it would happen, it won't fall down till away from the stack if I would get a drop anyway.
Did you make a design drawing of the flowhood? Maybe me or others here can give you advice as most of the time your first build would give you a result you would like to change things on within a few weeks. :wink:

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19653282 - 03/05/14 03:40 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Actually I started to make a sketch of my idea:



The filter is 292mm thick. I've read somewhere that the box should be twice that measurement. So it should be 584mm deep.

I will make everything with wood, and paint it, or put a plastic layer. So that I can wash and clean it on the inside.
I plan to put some hinges on the working stand so that I can close it and act as a protection cover for the HEPA when I'm not using it.

I've some spare acrylic board's that i thought that would be cool as side and top protection of the work area. and could slide over the box, but that would make me install the pré filter on the back.
So I will just put some Hinges as well, and put the pre-filter on the top of the box.

All advice's and commentary's are mostly welcome. :smile:

Cheers :smile:

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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19653323 - 03/05/14 04:39 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I would not close it up like that on the front. The laminar flow will create the clean area, it does not need help.
When you close it like that, it will become difficult to bring things into and out of the flow. And how are you going to flame sterilize your tools like this?
When I'm working in front of the flowhood, everything is coming in from one side and goes out of the flow area on the same or the other side, depending on the job.
My alcohol burner is on the right side of the flowhood, just outside the flow so when my tools are red hot, they get straight back into the flow.
So my tip is to create space on the left and right side of the filter outside the flow. That's where your not-yet-sanitized stuff goes before you bring it into the flow.
That kind of top and side windows you see a lot at pharmacy's where they have people walking around while someone is prepping stuff in front of the flowhood, to protect it a bit from turbulent air.
When you are working, you do not want people walking around and you won't make fast movements creating turbulent air.

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19653339 - 03/05/14 04:53 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I saw this video where the guy had the alcohol burner in the flow... so i thought I could have my flame on the flow.



I also saw a lot of them working without the side and top protection, so i think i will follow your advice and simplify this.

About the measurements of the box, do you think I really have to make it twice deep as the filter thickness?

Thanks.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19653350 - 03/05/14 05:12 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

You don't want side and top 'protection'.  Noobs often make things and post pictures they regret later.  the sides and top take away too much room from your work area.  You need room for your elbows and tools, etc., outside the work area.

A 30 cm thick filter?  I doubt it has the resistance to get laminar flow.  See if you can find one half that thickness or check resistance rating.
RR


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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19653888 - 03/05/14 09:38 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

ok, thanks for the advice, I will remove this "protections" from the plans.

About the HEPA filter thickens....Let's just hope so. Because I already ordered it. :frown:

Messurements 915*610*292mm
Filterklasse H14 (>99,999% bei 0,3µm)
Required Pressure 185 +/- 15 Pa

Maybe I can return it if it doesn't work....

* edit, would you return it right away, or give it a try?

Edited by zedacacia (03/05/14 10:04 AM)

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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19654716 - 03/05/14 01:23 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

It is sold for the purpose, so I would say it should work?
It's not that you are ordering from a generic air duct supply shop.
Maybe send the seller an email about it.

Not only remove the protections, make the work surface bigger on both sides.

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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19656668 - 03/05/14 07:40 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I'm sure it will clean the air.  What was the flow at 185 pa?

Usually, thicker filters have a lower resistance.  This allows more flow to pass through the filter and the thicker filter also traps and holds more debris.  The challenge is getting laminar flow.  Make a nice sized plenum behind the filter and make sure your blower is entering at a right angle to the filter so it's not blowing right on it.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19658021 - 03/06/14 02:23 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I've made the calculations to get around 0.5m\seg.

I will put the blower on the top of the plenum pointing down, so it doesn't hit directly the filter. I'm updating the sketch :wink:

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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: zedacacia]
    #19658079 - 03/06/14 03:16 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

185 Pa would do 1000 m3/h for 0.5m/sec flow

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Offlinezedacacia
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Re: Would this hepa filter work for a flow hood? [Re: monoculture]
    #19659177 - 03/06/14 12:12 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I sent them an email to ask, I know I've should done that before ordering it, but in the time it looked like THE ONE.

I've received the blower today. It's a beast. If I put in on the floor blowing down, it as some lift like a mini hovercraft :smile:

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