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Offlinemraejay
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oil paint
    #6724300 - 03/29/07 12:02 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

ive been feeling a little more creative recently and decided to experiment with oil paints, so far i have a red, yellow, blue and white + turpintine. dose any one here have tips or advice on oil paints?

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6724460 - 03/29/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Yes, you will need many more colors. Also lynseed oil.

With oil paint, you work in layers. Your first should be mostly turpentine with a little bit of paint; very translucent (like water colors), use this to map out basic shapes and colors. The next layer should contain a larger amount of paint to turpentine plus a drop or two of lynseed oil. It should still be relatively translucent. With each layer use more paint, more lynseed and less turpentine. This is the classical method used by renaissance painters to achieve life like renderings and detailed surface textures. The more layers, the more "photo like" you can make a painting.

Lynseed oil is very glossy so if you use too much it will produce a sheen or glare on the surface of your painting.

You also have to paint on canvas or a solid surface, it's not like acrylic, gauche or water colors. Paper will not do.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: oil paint *DELETED* [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6724811 - 03/29/07 02:39 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .


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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: soulcircus]
    #6724854 - 03/29/07 02:47 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

It's the whole basis....

Acryllic paint is plastic, it sits on top of the paper/canvas and each subsequent layer simply covers the one previous.

Water color all you see is the paper beneath the thin paint.

When you look at a skillfully rendered oil painting, you're actually seeing every layer of paint built up and layered. That's why it's the medium that most serious painters work with; it's relatively easy to make somthing appear 3D and it's just a lot more fun to paint with.


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6725484 - 03/29/07 05:06 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

you don't necessarily have to layer oil paints, and in fact layering is apparent in just about most media- it's something very important in both watercolor and acrylic.

will you need many more colors? In theory no, but honestly- yes
i wouldn't suggest cheap paints like winton- gamblin is really good, especially for the price, paint like shiva or daler-rowney's georgia are relatively very cheap, but are still useable.

I'd also reccomend these colors, very very roughly order of importance ( all of these are basic, but you probably don't want to spend much money, so maybe pick a few that you can afford ):
burnt sienna
french ultramarine
hansa or lemon yellow
a solid cadmium red would be nice, maybe get cad red hue ( the same color, but without the expensive pigment - some other properties of the paint are different and it's cheaper )
burnt umber
cerulean blue
alizarin crimson
cadmium yellow
cobalt blue
sap green
indian yellow
mars black

if you want to mix up a black, theres a lot of different ways
in general I just mix french ultramarine and burnt umber, but it also works with burnt sienna, only it uses more of the french ultramarine. alizarin crimson, burnt sienna and french ultramarine also makes a nice black.. occasionally ill mix up something random like permanent green and cobalt or some such- while pure, such a black will seem black, but if you thin it out or mix in white it won't be very grey at all

outside of technical issues like this, i'd suggest
1) Don't be afraid of the paint! This is one of the most common beginner's fears. Don't worry about mixing up too much or some such ( mix up a big glob and just save it for later ) and dont apply it super thinly either- experiment and let it be thick, let it form a skin with your presence in it- thick paint immediately makes you more aware of every brush stroke and every little thing you do.

2) Start from general shapes and work down to fine details from there, doing it the other way around won't make sense in the long run, especially if you're working alla prima ( how most people paint- just keep painting until it's done - as opposed to working on a painting layer by layer, letting it dry in between each layer ). Make a painting only with a metal palette knife - this will force you to be creative with your tool and understand form from a fundamental standpoint. Also, save the tiny and super soft brushes for the end, a good 1'' hoghair brush is basic for something like a 12''x16'' or a 16'' x 20'' or some such. Try to eventually get a good assortment of brushes, to start I'd recommend a 1/2'' flat hoghair and a 1'' flat hoghair, then maybe a 1/4'' filbert and a 1/2'' round sable brush.

3) Try to use your colors sort of economically. It might seem fun to use a rainbow palette all the time cos it looks pretty, but it's really unnecessary and actually kills all meaning that the color could hold otherwise. Make a painting using only burnt sienna, french ultramarine and white. It's actually very versatile.

4) Surfaces are important too- I'd say stay clear of canvasboard. Gessoing ( applying some cheap acrylic paint to a surface to prepare it for the oils- if you paint on something like wood or paper without first doing this step, the oil will eventually eat away material ) a piece of paper and taping it securely to a flat, smooth board like masonite is a good and cheap way to get a surface that you can learn to paint on, or even canvapaper. Store-bought prepared canvases and generally OK and will work for the most part, though the ideal case would be to construct your own. Wood is a great one too- sand it down till it's really smooth, then apply a layer of gesso just so it covers the surface- sand it down till its smooth again and apply again, repeating the process until the whole surface is one solid color and is as smooth as you'd like it to be. Also, I'd recommend covering the surface with a thin layer of burnt sienna thinned out with turp or mineral spirits and letting it dry before starting a painting- pure white is very distracting ( it's generally a bad idea to cover the surface with a cold color like burnt umber as it will be more challenging to work with).

This probably seems like a lot, but I just pointed out a few fundamental issues that you'll have to deal with anyway. Oil paints are primarily chosen for the complex luminosity and textures that can be achieved.

oh yeah and mediums- yeah, you'd probably want linseed oil to start with- it's a fairly slow-drying oil with medium thickness. A good thin oil would be safflower oil and it dries a little more quickly, or walnut oil which will dry very slowly.
A very good homemade medium consists of mineral spirits, galkyd, cold wax medium and linseed oil. A generic formula will have roughly 1 part each and instead 2 parts mineral spirits.
galkyd dries very quickly and has gloss
cold wax medium adds thickness and makes things very matte
the linseed oil slows drying time and has good fluidity
the mineral spirits thin the paint so that you have more to work with
you could figure out what you want by considering the properties of each.

umm do you want to know something really specific?

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Invisiblechunder
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6725757 - 03/29/07 06:42 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

I highly recommend getting rid of the turps and getting odorless mineral spirits instead. OMS is great for thinning paint/brush cleanup and its fumes are a lot safer. It's hard to paint when your head is swimming with turpentine visions.


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Offlinemraejay
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Re: oil paint [Re: chunder]
    #6727758 - 03/30/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

thanks for the tips guys
ive decided upon 4 coulors just so i can get a feel for it, and mix the colours and lighten if need be. also what is the lynseed oil? is it pretty nessacary? also im using a odorless solvent.

ONE last thing, if it matters at all, im using cardboard for canvas, im on a little bit of a budget... so im hoping this wont affect anything, and again thanks for all the replys:heart:

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6727791 - 03/30/07 11:40 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

No you can't use cardboard. Even if you gesso it. If you're that cheap, got to the art supply store and buy a few canvas boards. Or find scrap plywood and gesso it a few times.

I figured you were using an odorless solvent, most places don't even sell straight turpentine anymore. Turpenoid is most popular.

Lynseed oil isn't entiely necessary ut if you pursue the hobby, you'll want to buy some.


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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Offlinemraejay
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Re: oil paint [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6727801 - 03/30/07 11:42 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

crap. oh well. thanks for clairfying that!

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Offlinemraejay
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6727812 - 03/30/07 11:44 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

hey one more question, im thinking of even going to a thrift store and buying a canvas then just painting over it 1 solid coulor, then painting on it how id like it... but i was toled i have to sand it down and if it was acryllic paint before hand the oil paint wont set on acrylic...

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6727858 - 03/30/07 11:53 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Gesso. It's what you put on raw canvas to keep oil paint from seeping into the fabric. You might have to spend $12 or more on a bucket but it's something you need. Whether you're painting canvas, wood or brick, you'll want a thick layer of gesso.

For my canvas paintings I almost alway use three coats, dried and sanded in between. I know cats that use up to 7 coats and it's like painting on glass- very fucking smooth.

As far as painting on top of a painting, you're fine. You can paint oil on top of acrylic but not the other way around. Acrylic will not sit on top of oil and will begin to crack after a few years. You just had it backwards.


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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Offlinemraejay
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Re: oil paint [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6727926 - 03/30/07 12:10 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

haha, rite on, thanks for the advice, im glad i inqiredon here before i just dug in. it seems the chick at the art store really had no idea what she was talking about.

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OfflineCosmicFool
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6729421 - 03/30/07 07:39 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

I paint w/ the wet on wet style. You may have seen it if you're familiar w/ Bob Ross (guy w/ the afro)

It may be the best for beginners because there is less mixing and prep work it also has the advantage of having lot of instructional books and videos on it. But it will require an extra paint called liquid white.


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Invisiblechunder
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cardboard [Re: CosmicFool]
    #6731509 - 03/31/07 11:30 AM (17 years, 2 days ago)

You can definitely paint on cardboard if you gesso it front and back beforehand. In fact thats a wise thing to do starting out---its cheap and its a really interesting surface to work on.


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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: CosmicFool]
    #6737368 - 04/02/07 07:53 AM (17 years, 22 hours ago)

Bob Ross developed his own line of "quick drying" paints. If you're painting with traditional oil paint, you don't need any of his liquid white, liquid clear BS.


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On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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OfflineCosmicFool
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Re: oil paint [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6737495 - 04/02/07 08:58 AM (17 years, 20 hours ago)

the liquid white/clear/black has nothing to do with drying time. It's for "his" style the wet-on-wet style.

Because you paint on top of the liquid white/clear/black the colors mix on the canvas (very little mixing is done on the pallet) it's not good for portraits but it works great for landscapes.


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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: CosmicFool]
    #6737684 - 04/02/07 10:29 AM (17 years, 19 hours ago)

Oil paint can take months to dry so to one degree or another, it's almost always painting "wet on wet".

It's a term generally reserved for working in water color.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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Offlineplexus
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Re: oil paint [Re: mraejay]
    #6737724 - 04/02/07 10:41 AM (17 years, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

mraejay said:
thanks for the tips guys
ive decided upon 4 coulors just so i can get a feel for it, and mix the colours and lighten if need be. also what is the lynseed oil? is it pretty nessacary? also im using a odorless solvent.

ONE last thing, if it matters at all, im using cardboard for canvas, im on a little bit of a budget... so im hoping this wont affect anything, and again thanks for all the replys:heart:




yeah... you definatly dont need to buy all those colors to start painting... thats a hell of a lot of money. im always on a budget too. I suggest stealing the paint and brushes and using the money for canvas.
just kidding.
or am i?
but for the canvas, you should buy the cheap canvas BOARDS. or even a canvas pad (like a sketch pad, but with canvas paper.) that would be fine to practice oils on. way cheaper too. either of those would be much cheaper than buying a crappy oil painting from a thrift store and sanding it down.


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that there, thats not me. :noway:
i go where i please. :yesnod:
im not here.:shake:
this isnt happening.:nonono:

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OfflineBrewmaster
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Re: oil paint [Re: plexus]
    #6737902 - 04/02/07 11:35 AM (17 years, 18 hours ago)

Painting on actual canvas is by far the best way to go. It's good to get used to how it moves with the touch of a brush. There's no need to sand down an existing painting; if you can get one on canvas for cheap then just paint right on top of it. Or if you want to start from a solid color, buy gesso.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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OfflineCelestica
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Re: oil paint [Re: vampirism]
    #19560775 - 02/13/14 09:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just to add, another big reason to use the cadmium HUE colors instead of the real thing (even though the paint is better) is that cadmium is extremely toxic.

In all other I think Vampirisms post is a very good start in technique, even though the most important part is to just paint all the time for years. Painting is nothing you can learn in theory.


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Lophophora Williamsii, different variations
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Lithops, Euphorbias and lots of different non psychoactive Cactus species. Chinese pepper tree. All grown indoors and most are still babies.

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