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OfflineSneezingPenis
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emotionally defending mental health
    #19544288 - 02/09/14 05:05 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I go up agains this all the time because of my views on mental health.

"My son is autistic, is your child autistic, if not then shut the fuck up". end of discussion.
"I have depression, and unless you have had depression then you have no idea what you are talking about"...

that is like saying "I have a dick, and i believe you should suck it. If you don't have a dick, then you don't know what it is like to have an unsucked dick, so you have to suck it".

When you emotionally defend these bullshit labels and categories and get so angry, you destroy any chance at having a civil discussion. In doing so, you are only hindering progression.

i'm not saying you have to listen to it, but don't bring your stupid anecdotal stories across as some empirical proof that your experience is law.
I don't mind when someone uses anecdotal evidence calmly and ass support for a greater argument, but when it is your sole argument, it is not an argument, it is just an emotional over reaction because you are too scared to face the possibility that your lifelong crutch (justification of a failed life) doesn't really exist.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19544458 - 02/09/14 05:47 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

What is your point again? I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at.

Being emotional and having to deal with severe mental health issues pretty much go hand in hand.

Normal people don't know half the bullshit these people go through.

You just need to calm down, back off and let them be. It shouldn't even be a big deal, there isn't anything to discuss with them besides trying to give them support.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: Uzziel]
    #19545052 - 02/09/14 08:31 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, thought it would take more than 1 post to have a case in point but whatever.

Your post is a perfect example of what I am talking about. You want me to shut the hell up because i breached a topic that has become increasingly more emotional.

A simple whiff of dissent over this topic has already brought forth a fairly harsh rebuff.

So in your opinion there should be no discussion whatsoever about the status of psychiatry and mental health in general? No one is allowed to question the assumptions that modern mental health science is based on because it affords so many people an excuse to not ever reach their potential?

Why are you so vehemently opposed to me starting this discussion?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545090 - 02/09/14 08:41 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

And if you haven't already discerned my point, if I were to make a thread that put forth my opinion which stated "marijuana is good for you" I doubt I would be met with an emotional response that rivaled yours. Why is it so important that you defend the current structure of mental health?

Why do you have to become so emotional when someone respectfully disagrees with the assumption that we are at the mercy of brain chemicals? Why do I get called an asshole and threatened with violence for suggesting that the entire foundation of mental health sciences is bullshit? If I said creationism is bullshit, I would not get the type of anger from even the most devout evangelical. So what is your excuse?


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545202 - 02/09/14 09:09 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't mean it in a rude way...you're jumping to conclusions man. I didn't even post half of what you're talking about. I was genuinely confused by your point. :shrug:


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545230 - 02/09/14 09:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:


So in your opinion there should be no discussion whatsoever about the status of psychiatry and mental health in general? No one is allowed to question the assumptions that modern mental health science is based on because it affords so many people an excuse to not ever reach their potential?






Like this.. I'm not sure where you got this out of my post. I just told you to take back off when people are being overly aggressive (what you stated in your example, which I figured you were talking about)

My only point is just to support those who have mental health issues and to let it be. If people want to be overzealous then that is their choice.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: Uzziel]
    #19545317 - 02/09/14 09:32 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Even if my analysis of your text was overhyped, why did you use the words "back off"?

What was I doing that required you to tell me to back off?

Why does it need to be left alone? Do you think the current structure of addressing and treating mental illness is the best option?
Does anyone who claims to be at some disadvantage mentally get to be sheltered by the adamant stance that "people with mental health issues are more fragile and need to be treated as such?".

You responded to my post with more than mere clarification. I want to know what your impetus was for doing so.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545332 - 02/09/14 09:35 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I figured you were referring to talking to someone aggressive... which was why I said "back off and let them be..."

Really no point into talking to someone who wants to just go at it and not let you have a say. I see what you're saying and I agree with you though.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545354 - 02/09/14 09:40 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Just answer this. How do you feel about me claiming and making supporting arguments for a position that states the current view of mental health is fundamentally flawed, that there is no depression, no ADHD, no autism, no bipolar disorder?
What harm am I doing that requires people to jump down my throat? Does my opinion jeopardize the current structure of modern mental health "science"? What is being protected so vehemently?

Even if this thread doesn't show it, I can produce multiple threads in this very forum that illustrate what I am talking about.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545495 - 02/09/14 10:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

My opinion is that the world needs people like you jumping at the medical studies throats calling bullshit on this and that.

Doing stuff like that just further the needs to actually prove this or that. I think it's a good thing to question it all and take your stance. I see nothing wrong with your opinion. I can see how someone could be offended however, as I've met families with children who had mental health issues and they would most certainly be offended by you saying their childs condition doesn't exist. I also don't think you're right but what you think and what I think really isn't the point. It is the discussion of it is what you want to do and I get that, or that is what I'm getting at.

I think the medical diagnosis at large is often misdiagnosed and inaccurate. I've seen so many doctors jump to conclusions. Hell when I went for a normal checkup and told him I had been feeling down because of my ex leaving, he tried to put me on antidepressents for christs sake.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: Uzziel]
    #19545524 - 02/09/14 10:23 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for getting the point and explaining it better than I did.

So the second part of my point is to ask why would these parents get visibly angry at me for having a dissenting opinion? Is it because questioning these things inherently mean that I think they are bad parents? That they have been duped by modern mental health "science"?
Or is it because it tAkes away an explanation as to why their kids are not on par with the average?

Why does it illicit such emotions?

I can understand when I call someone a nigger that they get upset, but why do I get the same response when calmly stating my opinion on mental health?

Why is ther such an overwhelming popular backlash when it comes to simply questioning the basis for all the diagnosis?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545571 - 02/09/14 10:37 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Btw this entire thread is an intro to another thread. I am about to go deep into explaining why I believe the entire foundation of modern mental health is false.

So speak up here if you have certain emotional objections. Make an argument for why my ideas should be forbidden or atleast that justify why you will later get so angry you flame me and possibly threaten violence against me.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19545931 - 02/10/14 12:23 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Well I think a lot of it is just misguided anger/frustration. Think if you had to deal with someone who needed your help with well, just about everything.... every day and then for someone to come around and tell you that their sons condition is questionable. It would be pretty easy for them to just blow up on you instead of their kid with all that pent up frustration.

I don't understand why someone would blow up for say, ADHD, though. I've seen so many bullshit cases of that, that I find it hard to believe that all these damn kids need to be hooked on speed.

To be quite frank though, I just don't know. I always give people the chance to talk if they want to say what they want.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19546187 - 02/10/14 01:57 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Why does it illicit such emotions?

I can understand when I call someone a nigger that they get upset, but why do I get the same response when calmly stating my opinion on mental health?





That totally depends on what you are saying, and whether you are making statements that are offensive and insensitive.

So exactly what are you saying that causes people to tell you these things?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: Crystal G]
    #19547267 - 02/10/14 12:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

That is part of what I am getting at. Why are people taking offense to seemingly innocuous statements? When did it become insensitive or offensive to question the validity of the widely accepted structure is mental health science? It is like some rule that says once you claim to be mentally ill you can get all uppity the second someone demands anything from you... And then get mad that they do not respect or recognize your illness.
Am I supposed to grovel in the sight of a mildly autistic child? Are we supposed to not look them in the eyes like divas? Heaven forbid I see them as normal, mislabeled children, I have to see them as genetically damaged people who are daily heroes for just continuing to breath every day.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis] * 2
    #19547268 - 02/10/14 12:16 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

You're coming off as very aggressive in these posts, if you act the same way in real life it's no wonder people get defensive.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19547291 - 02/10/14 12:26 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

This is how I speak. On many topics.

Am I supposed to put on mittens when talking about mental health?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19547304 - 02/10/14 12:31 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

And don't take that at me being defensive. I am honestly interested. Maybe my approach is harsh. But this happens even during vocal communication where tone and facial expressions help clarify meaning and temper.

I have literally had a woman take a swing at me for plainly stating that I don't think ADHD exists. I didn't tell it, I didn't say it in a shitty way. I said it just like I would say I don't like asparagus.


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OfflinePeteza34
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #19548532 - 02/10/14 06:10 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Mental health problems do exist and it is hard to give someone advice on them if you have never experienced whichever illness for yourself.  Certain mental health conditions tend to be exaggerated, ADHD for example, but some are very real and intense and very hard to relate to without experience.  For example, how do you advise a social phobic person when you have never experienced the intense anxiety symptoms and the brain fog that comes along in their social interactions?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: emotionally defending mental health [Re: Peteza34]
    #19549829 - 02/10/14 10:35 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Peteza34 said:
Mental health problems do exist




why do you believe that to be true?

Quote:

and it is hard to give someone advice on them if you have never experienced whichever illness for yourself.




so if you don't believe in God you shouldn't be allowed to comment on christianity? How do these people get diagnosed? where is this school of autistic doctors handing out these diagnosis? are we only allowed to comment on things that we have experienced? where would that get us?
I haven't tried anal fisting but I think I have a solid grasp on how it works... enough so that I could be part of a discussion on anal fisting without having to have had an entire fist up my ass.
if i claim to have some made up disease called Fluffernutitis, which I claim puts me at a disadvantage to learn or work, why shouldn't you be able to call bullshit?

Quote:

  Certain mental health conditions tend to be exaggerated, ADHD for example, but some are very real and intense and very hard to relate to without experience.  For example, how do you advise a social phobic person when you have never experienced the intense anxiety symptoms and the brain fog that comes along in their social interactions?




So if someone doesn't know how to drive a car, and I do know how to drive a car, I shouldn't have any knowledge or input regarding driving a car? If someone has mastered some skill or ability, how does that preclude them from giving advice on how to accomplish that skill or ability?
seems like the two things are complementary. Here you have someone who is great in social situations, and another person who cannot navigate any social event... one is the water in the glass, the other is the space not occupied by water in the glass.
If a blind person wants to know what a rainbow looks like, do they ask another blind person to explain it to them?

now maybe a blind person would rather talk to another blind person about the frustration of not knowing what a rainbow looks like, because they can empathize.... but what you are claiming is ridiculous. Like sighted people shouldn't comment on how beautiful a rainbow is because they don't know what it is like to never have seen a rainbow.


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