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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: sytar]
    #19547795 - 02/10/14 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Then, assuming that for-profit corporations have no first amendment rights, it would be okay for the government to make content-based prohibitions on movies/television shows since those companies chose a corporate form?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: sytar]
    #19547864 - 02/10/14 01:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
People should be free to organize and pool their money in the form of PACs and corporations specifically dedicated to political action. They shouldn't be getting donations from GE, only the individuals who work at GE.

Zap, you spectacularly missed the nuances of my post. Get on Enlil's level.




You don't have any nuances.  The employees of GE can go fuck themselves.  The only people who should be determining the tenor of GE political support are the stockholders.  Should unions be forbidden from making political ads unless every member goes along?  Should newspapers be shut up from making political endorsements unless every emplyeee goes along?  Did you know that newspapers are corporations?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19547868 - 02/10/14 01:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then, assuming that for-profit corporations have no first amendment rights, it would be okay for the government to make content-based prohibitions on movies/television shows since those companies chose a corporate form?



You are evil.  What about newspapers?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19547893 - 02/10/14 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Newspapers, too, but those are a different portion of the first amendment.  I'm trying to narrow the issue down to specifics to figure out where he stands.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19547905 - 02/10/14 01:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Newspapers, too, but those are a different portion of the first amendment.  I'm trying to narrow the issue down to specifics to figure out where he stands.




I do not think that the formulation "the press" meant more than anything other than the ability to print something.  Any jerk off can claim press status


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19547927 - 02/10/14 01:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bullshit.  Do you think corporations are owned by zombies from Mars?  They are owned by peoplemillionaires and billionaires



Fixed that for ya.  Any share holder who's not super wealthy has no say.  Again, one vote per dollar, not one per person.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19547935 - 02/10/14 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Any shareholder has the right to sell his or her share if he or she doesn't like the message.  Nobody is forced to own shares.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19547969 - 02/10/14 01:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Any shareholder who isn't a millionaire or billionaire has no say in any company.  Back to the original point - the US is moving towards one vote per dollar rather than one vote per person.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19547979 - 02/10/14 01:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Any shareholder who isn't a millionaire or billionaire has no say in any company.



not true. I get to vote for on decisions for most of the companies i've invested in.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19547983 - 02/10/14 01:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, but the freedom of the press is a bit broader than the general freedom of speech.  For instance, a tax on ink purchased in excess of $100k a year was found unconstitutional in Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner, 460 U.S. 575


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19547991 - 02/10/14 01:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Any shareholder who isn't a millionaire or billionaire has no say in any company. 



How do you figure?  What about corporations worth less than a million dollars?  I think you pulled this out of your ass, and I'd like you to prove this statement.


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Offlinesytar
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19548058 - 02/10/14 02:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then, assuming that for-profit corporations have no first amendment rights, it would be okay for the government to make content-based prohibitions on movies/television shows since those companies chose a corporate form?




Being restricted from making unlimited donations to PACs does not imply 'no first amendment rights'. The restriction should very narrowly fall upon contributions to PACs.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: sytar]
    #19548072 - 02/10/14 02:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So, you only want to limit for-profit corporations' political speech.  Isn't that a bit antithetical to the whole purpose of the first amendment?  If you're going to limit political speech, which is the most highly protected speech under the first, doesn't that pretty much mean you can limit all speech?

Also, what about something like what CU did in the case.  What if GE funded the production of a movie about a politician designed to dissuade people from voting for him/her?  Could the government limit that, assuming that the money was a good faith expenditure made in the best interests of the shareholders?


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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19548077 - 02/10/14 02:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

As I'm sure you know, Stevens already addressed this whole argument about content prohibition already. All of your arguments seem like they're straight out of the majority opinion. You already know what the rebuttals are.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: sytar]
    #19548082 - 02/10/14 02:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm asking about your position, though.  I already know the law on the matter.


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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19548101 - 02/10/14 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm asking about your position, though.  I already know the law on the matter.




It's pretty much the same as Stevens'. :shrug:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: sytar]
    #19548128 - 02/10/14 02:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I see, so you were really talking about yourself when you said:

Quote:

sytar said:
All of your arguments seem like they're straight out of the . . . opinion. 




Way to project, brah.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19548203 - 02/10/14 02:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, but the freedom of the press is a bit broader than the general freedom of speech.  For instance, a tax on ink purchased in excess of $100k a year was found unconstitutional in Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner, 460 U.S. 575




Why?  And is it an anachronism in the internet age?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: sytar]
    #19548206 - 02/10/14 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
Yes, I agree with that Enlil.

I primarily object to
(a) No contribution limits
(b) All corporations being permitted to contribute.

The ability for me and my friends, hypothetically, to organize ourselves in a PAC? That should be permitted as it is part of free speech. If the board of directors of GlaxoSmithKline would like to contribute to our PAC they should be permitted to do so. However, if they want to take money out of GlaxoSmithKline in order to conitrbute to our PAC? No, that should not be permitted.



You are 100% free to divest yourself of any and all stock in Glaxo Smith Cline and invest in some other company.  Or no other company.  That is your vote.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Load Up The Troughs! There's pork-a'-plenty for everyoe..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19548214 - 02/10/14 02:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Because it's a law that treats the press differently from other businesses.  Yes, the internet has changed everything, and the law is slow to react to societal changes.


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