Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinechinacat311
the lizard king

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 68
Loc: washington, dc..the sourc...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
psilocybin vs. psilocin
    #1869549 - 08/31/03 09:42 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

i was lookin at the doseage calculator and it says some strains have 0 psilocin and others have a lot. how do these two affect the brain? which parts of the trip derive from each?

i know psilocin deteriorates faster, but thats about it.

sorry if this has been asked before, but i couldnt find any posts.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejong21
Mycologist/CSMajor

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: chinacat311] * 1
    #1869588 - 08/31/03 09:50 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

they are really the same thing. Psilocin is hte main psychoactive chemical that causes you to trip. Psilocybin, which has an extra group of atoms attached to it, once in your system, is converted to psilocin (the group of atoms is broken off). So, each molocule of psilocybin will become a molecule of psilocin, in theory. Psilocin is slightly more potent by weight only because its molecular weight is less than psilocybin, so a given weight of psilocin will have more molecules than the same weight of psilocybin. Check out hte FAQs at www.erowid.org, under the chemistry section, there are other chemicals in shrooms that contribute to the trip as well, it is an interesting section to read about.


--------------------
I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineaminitaman
FUK THAGOVERNMENT,IMSMOKIN' BLUNTSAND LOVIN' IT

Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Tha BlueGrass State,Kentu...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: chinacat311]
    #1869589 - 08/31/03 09:51 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

good question,ive always wundered about that too,also sumthin to add to your question,:what is baecoytsin?or how ever u spell it?peaceout!


--------------------
________________________________
IF IN DOUBT,PLEASE THROW'EM OUT!
________________________________
fa'shizzle dizzle
its tha big parafenizzle
with tha big mushroomizzle
ya gotta know its off tha hizzle

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Anonymous

Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: chinacat311]
    #1869591 - 08/31/03 09:51 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

psilocybin is coverted into psilocin in the body...it only applies if shrooms are fresh since you lose the psilocin when dried(or most of it)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesoluble_dreams
N,N on the floor

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42
Loc: Too Dark Park
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: ]
    #1869874 - 08/31/03 11:44 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Is this why when you bruise a mushroom, it turns blue? The rapid deterioration of psilocyn? That's what I've always thought.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechinacat311
the lizard king

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 68
Loc: washington, dc..the sourc...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: soluble_dreams]
    #1871165 - 09/01/03 12:59 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

so no matter how careful you are drying youll lose potency??

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestarfungi
daydreamer

Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 133
Loc: south pacific
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: chinacat311]
    #1873304 - 09/02/03 01:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

yep, the psilocin will deteriorate rather quickly, but the psilocybin is a lot more stable, so it'll stay. So mushrooms with a higher psilocybin ratio is better for drying and storing.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineunderground
welcome to the underground

Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 191
Loc: colorful colorado
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: aminitaman]
    #1879256 - 09/03/03 09:24 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"beacoytsin" or baeocystin is another tryptamine derivative.
psylocin is 4-HYDROXY-DMT,
psylocybin is 4-ACETOXY-DMT, and
baeocystin is 4-phosphoryloxy-MT

i guess it's also a psycoactive substance, but the jury is still out on whether it is psychedelic or not

check the link for nice diagrams:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_chemistry.shtml

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJohn
ssdp.org

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: soluble_dreams]
    #1880576 - 09/04/03 08:17 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

soluble_dreams said:
Is this why when you bruise a mushroom, it turns blue? The rapid deterioration of psilocyn? That's what I've always thought.




The bluing of a mushroom is due to the oxidation of indole based substances in the fungus, many other mushrooms not containing psilocyn will bruise blue, so no it's not the deteriation of psilocyn.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: John]
    #19523489 - 02/05/14 01:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What about the degradation of BAEOCYSTIN, does it goes away drying the shrooms also?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,896
Last seen: 3 hours, 2 minutes
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #19523670 - 02/05/14 03:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

According to The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants. Christian Rätsch (2005), baeocystin is probably the biogenic amine of psilocybin. This means that it's one stage in the biosynthesis of psilocybin. It's an incomplete version of psilocybin. This suggests to me that it's iNACTIVE.

Psilocybin and psilocin are closely related to baeocystin (= O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, norpsilocybin), which probably represents the biogenic precursor of psilocybin (Repke et al. 1977; cf. also Brack et al. 1961 and Chilton et al. 1979). (Page 836)

Edited by s240779 (02/05/14 08:51 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHarryL
Squnä'am
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 8,070
Loc: Washington State
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: s240779]
    #19524191 - 02/05/14 08:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

baeocystin is psychoactive though degrades rapidly... My opinion at least

You see that in the unusual loss of potency during the drying of Psilocybe baeocystis.
It can loose 70-80% of its potency being dried.

So... Lesson here is the drying process may have some affect on potency, depending on the species and it's mixture of the active compounds. For some mushrooms that have mostly psilocybin, drying has less affect on potency. If it has high levels of baeocystin or related compounds, drying has more of an affect. If high levels of psilocin, drying might have some but not that much affect... At least that is what I have see.

Still, drying is the best way to preserve your mushrooms....

Just my 2 cents

Peace


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,896
Last seen: 3 hours, 2 minutes
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: HarryL]
    #19524238 - 02/05/14 08:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
If high levels of psilocin, drying might have some but not that much affect...




i WAS SPECIFICALLY UNDER THE IMpression that psilocin was very easily destroyed in the drying process.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJimmyhunter1000
That guy.
Male


Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 777
Loc: Massachusetts, USA.
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: s240779]
    #19524309 - 02/05/14 09:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

HarryL said:
If high levels of psilocin, drying might have some but not that much affect...




i WAS SPECIFICALLY UNDER THE IMpression that psilocin was very easily destroyed in the drying process.




The only things that you'll see in a drying process that could degrade it is O2 exposure. Dehydrators don't even come close to the temp needed to degrade the compound.

Odds are you won't notice a loss in potency that's notable, unless you're talking long time storage of 3-4 years. Even then there have been reports of people still tripping without much lost.


--------------------
There isn't a trail too long or too wide.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,896
Last seen: 3 hours, 2 minutes
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: Jimmyhunter1000]
    #19524565 - 02/05/14 10:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm aware that that's true for most chemicals, but I was under the impression that psilocin was ridiculously unstable. This is why scientists consider psilocybin to be the main chemical found in mushrooms (e.g. referring to mushrooms as psilocybin mushrooms and using isolated psilocybin in studies.)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAopocetx
Writer
Male


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: s240779]
    #19524588 - 02/05/14 10:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Man I know I saw the same post but I guess in a different forum? I said the same thing as people above. I know there is/was a duplicate of this thread!


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineimjrod
Stranger

Registered: 01/01/14
Posts: 54
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: Jimmyhunter1000]
    #20785276 - 11/02/14 06:34 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

D-L Tryptophan is the precursor to Beacoytsin and Beacoytsin is the precursor to Psilocybin. Psilocybin turns into Psilocin in the body and that is the active compound. Administering D-L Tryptophan to mycellium culture will increase the levels of Beacoytsin and consequently Psilocybin the same way that administering D-L Trypophan to Ergot will increase yields of Ergine and consequently acid. Administering D-L Tryptophan as one of the nutrients also increases yields of the DMT in shrooms.

While growing, the shrooms use D-L Tryptophan to make Beacoytsin. Beacoytsin then synthesizes (converts into) Psilocybin and the Psilocybin crystals grow as this occurs. Psilocybin effects last longer than Beacoytsin, and are slightly stronger. For this reason, fresh shrooms have "two parts," in which there is a slight come-down after 2-3 hours from the Beacoytsin, while the Psilocybin goes on for 6 hours or so.

Fully cured shrooms will have a longer lasting-effect. However, the Psilocybin crystals are fragile to air and light, so sometimes the curing process destroys more than what one may like. It's imperative to keep the shrooms stored out of light heat and air.

During the shroom curing process, Psilocybin crystals will grow from Beacoytsin. While the primary difference between the high of Beacoytsin and Psilocybin would be the duration, crystals grown in vacuum conditions within or without (via extraction) the shrooms are much stronger than Beacoytsin, due to better crystal growth increasing the chemical efficiency.

Chemical efficiency is important in psychadelics, making crystal growth a concern. In making acid, crystals are regrown twice. To promote excellent crystal growth in shrooms, use vacuum conditions like a vacuum desiccator or an inflated plastic bag with desiccant. The inflated bag will provide a vacuum type environment which will promote high efficiency crystal formation.

In summary, to increase overall shroom potency, administer D-L Tryptophan as one of the nutrients in spawning, and dissolve some in the water used for flushing. At harvest, seal the shrooms in an inflated bag for dessication or a vacuum desiccator as soon as possible. Use Vitamin C to protect shrooms from oxygen. Protected from oxygen and light and in vacuum conditions, you will have excellent Psilocybin crystals.

The crystals can also be used outside of the shrooms via extraction. This is off topic so I won't go into it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAizen
God of my own world
Female


Registered: 10/01/14
Posts: 506
Loc: Portland, OR
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: imjrod]
    #20785458 - 11/02/14 07:10 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

underground said:
"beacoytsin" or baeocystin is another tryptamine derivative. 
psylocin is 4-HYDROXY-DMT,
psylocybin is 4-ACETOXY-DMT, and
baeocystin is 4-phosphoryloxy-MT

i guess it's also a psycoactive substance, but the jury is still out on whether it is psychedelic or not

check the link for nice diagrams:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_chemistry.shtml




I'm not familiar with Baeocystin, but Psilocybin is not acetoxydimethyltryptamine.

Psilocin is 4-hydroxy-DMT, or 4-dimethyltryptaminol. It's easily oxidised, so shrooms that are high in psilocin don't keep well.

Psilocybin is the hydroxyl phosphate ester of psilocin, or 4-dimethyltryptaminyl dihydrogen phosphate. The hydrogen on the hydroxyl is replaced with a negatively charged phosphate hydroxide group. The phosphate ester is much less reactive to temperature, water or air, so high-psilocybin shrooms dry and keep better.

in the body, this ester is broken down back into psilocin, becoming active in the process.


--------------------
I love growing things, and I love making things. I will always prefer drugs I have grown or made myself to those I have bought; the challenge of the manufacture makes the product all the sweeter.

Bucket list of drugs to produce:

Low tier: Cannabis, Caapi Vine, Chacruna, Coca, Ephedra Distachya, Kratom, Mimosa, Morning Glory, Opium, Psilocybe Galidoi, Salvia, Syrian Rue
Mid tier: Crack Rocks, Ephedrine, Freebase DMT & 5MeO-DMT, Freebase Mescaline, Peyote, Peruvian Torch, Psilocybe Cubensis, San Pedro, Tar Heroin
Top tier: Amanita Muscaria, Cocaine, Crystal Meth, Pan Cyans, Psilocybe Azurescens, Synthetic DMT & 5MeO-DMT, Synthetic Mescaline, White Heroin
God tier: Lysergic Acid Diethylamide

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,896
Last seen: 3 hours, 2 minutes
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: Aizen]
    #20785482 - 11/02/14 07:15 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Aizen said:
The phosphate ester is much less reactive to temperature, water or air, so high-psilocybin shrooms dry and keep better.




The literature says that psilocin is a step in the process of the biosynthesis of psilocybin, so perhaps mushrooms can be grown that contain only psilocybin?




A Biosynthetic Sequence from Tryptophan to Psilocybin
Agurell S, Lars J, Nilsson G. 
Tetrahedron Letters. 1968;9:1063-1064.
DOWNLOAD


Also, I think imjrod's post is full of bizarre misinformation.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineimjrod
Stranger

Registered: 01/01/14
Posts: 54
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: psilocybin vs. psilocin [Re: s240779]
    #20786312 - 11/02/14 10:02 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I feed Ergot and Magic Mushroom cultures D-L Tryptophan as a course of nature. It should be considered standard procedure.

Organic chemistry 101: feed your plants the precursors then properly cure them to convert the precursors. Plants don't make the active ingredient that we desire, they make the precursor to it. And what plants make has a precursor. In the case of shrooms, what we do is feed them D-L Tryptophan.

During curing process, the precursor converts to the alkaloid crystal. In psychedelics, High efficiency crystals produce better visuals. To get "higher grade" Psilocybin formation during curing, use inflated bag or vacuum desiccator, both standard organic chemistry techniques and therefore you can look it up somewhere else on the internet.

I won't explain how to make the inflated bag but there are places on the internet where you can even find pictures. Pictures seem to make things easier for some people.

Soooooooo Feed the shrooms D-L Tryptophan and cure them in vacuum conditions for 8 to 10 months. There is no way I can put it any easier than that, even if I used pictures.

Edited by imjrod (11/02/14 10:56 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* psilocybin vs psilocin trips...
( 1 2 all )
loqix 7,829 29 02/03/03 03:55 AM
by TeKHeAD009
* psilocybin Vs. psilocin Vs. Baeocystin roachsucker 4,929 5 05/25/02 05:14 AM
by roachsucker
* psilocybin to psilocin. Imobiletoe 1,308 4 11/04/03 10:05 AM
by gnrm23
* difference between the high of the psilocybin e psilocin kottonmouthss 2,218 8 01/07/04 03:24 AM
by Annom
* Psilocybin and Psilocin extraction trauma47645 1,997 11 08/10/06 09:16 PM
by special_k
* Can you snort Extracted Psilocybin or Psilocin *Updated
( 1 2 all )
Flop Johnson 15,466 38 03/15/13 08:58 PM
by Intelligentxfruit
* Psilocybin and psilocin... Reprah 1,002 5 01/29/05 10:09 AM
by gnrm23
* Comparing Psilocybin and psilocin in stems/caps cramitdafrog 1,193 3 08/27/04 10:34 PM
by mjshroomer

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
16,567 topic views. 1 members, 24 guests and 33 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.