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Invisible404
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seizures, drugs, and their cause
    #19151728 - 11/17/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty sure i had a seizure, but im not exactly sure. i took a LOT of mushrooms after not taking anything for a couple months. i also took a lot of noopept and a little mxe before taking the shrooms. my back started hurting during a show at a music festival, and i went back to camp to sit down. i started feeling extremely depressed as the trip brought out some underlying problems in me. i began having the most intense visuals ever, and it was as if i had consumed a very powerful oral form of dmt (which is actually exactly what happened). i was seeing moving diagrams of things i didnt understand, in some language that was foreign and not of this earth.

next thing i know im convulsing in my chair for two hours and my hands are turning blue and im very very cold. im lost control of my body movements it seemed too. was this a seizure? why did it happen? ive never had one before, though i have a lot of tics and also i have loads and loads of spasms in my body, lots in the eyes fingers and lower and middle back. i dont understand what happened to me, can someone please shed some light? hopefully professional


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Offlinenexxone
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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19151837 - 11/17/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

did you try asking this on a medical forum? you might get quicker results.
Thats very unfortunate that happen to you tho, hope it doesnt happen again


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Invisible404
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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: nexxone]
    #19153998 - 11/18/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

me too. i did some digging on here after it happened, there was some info regarding glutamate levels being altered that could trigger it, which makes sense cause i took MXE before it all.

you don't necessarily have to lose consciousness for it to be considered a seizure right? because i was aware of what was going on around me


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19154276 - 11/18/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Obviously brainwave incoherence is the cause - a seizure is an eruption of incoherent brainwaves. 

That is caused by many things. But the way to attenuate seizures is to have a regular lifestyle. Doing drugs is asking for seizures. 

Especially if they disrupt sleeping patterns.

Many drugs act like somnimimetics - that is, they make you feel relaxed and like you're going to sleep but they affect REM stage sleep so you spend a night in a nod ro a trance and them next day

BAM - fucking seizure.

I see it all the time in my epileptic friend.  Heroin = seizure. 

So don't be stupid fucking dipshits. If you have seizures from drugs you're gonna die eventually, so get wise.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: Anonymous #1] * 3
    #19154312 - 11/18/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We could do with less pretentiousness on this forum.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19159089 - 11/19/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Alright, i decided to research for myself, and share the data since i wasn't getting any straight responses in person, and barely any replies on here.

Turns out, it was in fact a seizure: "An epileptic seizure (colloquially a fit) is a transient symptom of "abnormal excessive or synchronous neuronal activity in the brain".[1] The outward effect can be as dramatic as a wild thrashing movement (tonic-clonic seizure) or as mild as a brief loss of awareness (absence seizure). It can manifest as an alteration in mental state, tonic or clonic movements, convulsions, and various other psychic symptoms (such as déjà vu or jamais vu). Sometimes it is not accompanied by convulsions but a full body "slump", where the person simply will lose body control and slump to the ground. The medical syndrome of recurrent, unprovoked seizures is termed epilepsy, but seizures can occur in people who do not have epilepsy. For more information, see non-epileptic seizure."

"Epileptic seizures can occur in someone who does not have epilepsy – as a consequence of head injury, [underline]drug overdose[/underline], toxins, eclampsia or febrile convulsions, for example."


I have a strong history of Deja vu, but never have i ever had a full on seizure like what i experienced. I had an intense sensation of deja vu before the convulsions started however.

from what i gather though, seizures can be very small, where there is 'abnormal excessive neuronal activity in the brain' ^ . so while im not certain about this, an episode of deja vu might in some cases be a mild seizure from what im reading in the above statements.

Ive also found out what the spasms ive been having are:

"A fasciculation /fəˌsɪkjʉˈleɪʃən/, or "muscle twitch", is a small, local, involuntary muscle contraction and relaxation which may be visible under the skin. Deeper areas can be detected by EMG testing, though they can happen in any skeletal muscle in the body. Fasciculations arise as a result of spontaneous depolarization of a lower motor neuron leading to the synchronous contraction of all the skeletal muscle fibers within a single motor unit."



I hope what i dug up helps someone else here on the forums.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19159492 - 11/19/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I do not think you had a seizure.


I've seen what you speak over the course of 14 years of psychedelic use quite often.  You just got to level 5....you had full blown ego loss.....if you were having a grand maul seizure how did you know your hands were turning blue?  Can you verify your hands were turning blue from another source?  If someone else was there to verify your hands turning blue, why didn't they seek medical help?  If you were hallucinating so bad you could no longer speak, see, or move, how did you see that your limbs were blue, and how could you be positive they were?


I had a friend once claim his hands and tongue wee blue as he struggled to regain motor skills and call 911.  He swore up and doing he was either having a seizure, or a heart attack as he writhed on the couch drooling on himself.  I stayed calm and asked him how he knew his tongue was blue....and explained to him that he's eaten the same drug coctail hundreds of times, he just got to a new plane of psychedelic experience and he needed to just let go.......


You didn't let go. Nor did he.


You let the negativity consume you....you let the fear engulf you......you assumed the worst and it happened mentally for you.


My friends heart attack / seizure was interestingly enough cured with a 2mg xanax almost instantly.....go figure.


I also consumed 14 grams of mushrooms once.....was convinced I was blue and freezing cold....fully convinced of my own death......called 911.  They had to tell me for hours that I was NOT in fact blue, not dying, not in any physical harm what so ever, and actually running a bit of fever from my blood pressure being through the roof from the panic attack.


Have you ever had a sober panic attack where you let everything from death to guilt consume you?  They are the same thing.  I have seen people leave work and go to the er over what they thought was a heart attack, and even collapsed/fainted and at the hospital it turned out to be just over whelming stress.


And as pretentious as this will sound.  Fuck that idiot above you ranting that " drugs cause seizures, which cause death "  So broad.....so incorrect.


But really.....relax brother.  Quit worrying so much.....and never leave the love of the stage to stagger back to your campsite alone and freak out in a tent.....the love is where you dance and gather.....where everyone is fighting the urge to freak out by being around eachother.  Find someone to hug or some water to drink.  DANCE!!  Lay on a blanky....but staggering away from the stage has always been a bad idea for me IME....


And really, asking about whether or not you had a seizure on the shroomery, and actually spending time to webmd that shit, is just going to engulf you even more.  Let it go.  You were fine, and if you really think you wern't go to the ER and get the tests done to find out.....or just don't do drugs anymore if you are going to let that stuff consume it.  I bet if you deal with whatever it was you were stressing about, your next journey will be on a whole nother level of fuck yes.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: vandago]
    #19159839 - 11/19/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It was not a gran mal sseizure, furthermore you don't have to lose consciousness or have memory loss for it to be considered a seizure.

as stated above, seizures can be very mild to the point that they are very hard to detect. deja vu is a manifested symptom in some casses.

no one was around, because they were all at the various shows and i didnt want to contact them or be taken out on a stretcher, so i sat through it alone for the most part.

Benzo medications are used to help prevent siezures and panic attacks if i am not mistaken.

i have in fact had a panic attack before, several times, this felt completely different, and hurt.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19164164 - 11/20/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Well,

I can say my brother took a bunch of nootropics and 4 aco dmt one night and thought he had a torn aorta and was dying. He was convinced of it aswell and in a deeply panicy state. My parents took him to the ER and got all the tests done and everything, he was fine. Just panic attack/hallucination of physical danger in a psychedelic state. Cost thousands of dollars to have the hospital tell him that though.

Cant say what happened to you for sure, but from what I saw when I got there: When you would go back in to that state and start shaking, I put my hand on you and told you to stay with us and take deep breathes. Each time you immediately came out of it, looked and me and told me to stop, and then went back into it. That happened twice. I found that a bit bizzare and to me an indication that maybe you werent having a seizure but just allowing yourself to go into some involuntary contraction state. I told you ive had something similar and I labelled it an energy tremor.
I think psychedelics can awaken alot of energy in our body by opening up emotions, different things weve been holding on to, unlocking ideas, etc and when this energy is woken up if it doesnt have enough of an outlet it can result in tremors and bodily movement. 

Still, I think what you are doing is the right thing. You are investigating into an experience you had that could have potentially been dangerous. I think this is smart but make sure you take your findings with a grain of salt. It is easy research medical conditions and apply them to our own circumstances. And we both know full well the power of the mind, thought, on our experience.

Look into various states of consciousness described by other cultures aside form our western medical perspective to maybe see if your experience matches up with some of those aswell.

No matter waht, happy you are Here Now :heart:


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: weshroom]
    #19164206 - 11/20/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

weshroom said:
Well,

Cant say what happened to you for sure, but from what I saw when I got there: When you would go back in to that state and start shaking, I put my hand on you and told you to stay with us and take deep breathes. Each time you immediately came out of it, looked and me and told me to stop, and then went back into it. That happened twice. I found that a bit bizzare and to me an indication that maybe you werent having a seizure but just allowing yourself to go into some involuntary contraction state. I told you ive had something similar and I labelled it an energy tremor.




yeah, we talked about this already, and i never came out of it at all actually - i was still shaking, and i didnt look at you directly. i was stuttering and shaking. again, i never lost consciousness.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404] * 1
    #19174025 - 11/22/13 08:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

the only thing that made me ever have a seizure was cocaine and/or xanax.

Those two things are notorious for seizures.

What you are describing may have certainly been a seizure. You CAN be conscious for them. So it could have been.

Just don't mess around with the same drugs you were messing with. It sounds dangerous and not worth it.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: Thuglife]
    #19184942 - 11/24/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thuglife did you mean you only experience seizes when u mix cain with xanax? or do u experience them when u just take xanax's only?


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: nexxone]
    #19478092 - 01/26/14 06:37 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

nexxone said:
thuglife did you mean you only experience seizes when u mix cain with xanax? or do u experience them when u just take xanax's only?




well i only had one seizure and it was when i mixed caine and zanny. My friend had a seizure when he sniffed xanax and heroin.

Honestly, i think the risks of seizure occurs when you SNIFF xanax.

Because i sniffed a xanax bar and the coke at the same time. And my friend sniffed the xanax with heroin.

SO in conclusion it sounds like it's sniffing the xanax that will do it.

Sniffing benzos is very dangerous.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: Thuglife]
    #19509856 - 02/02/14 07:49 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I had something once that may have been a siezure, around 2 years ago at the tail end of a 6 or so month period of taking DXM 2 or 3 times a week. It came on after I took a bong hit one day at a buddies house, and I immediately got a panic attack type sensation of fainting. I've gotten this plenty of times from my anxiety and smoking pot in the past, so that part wasn't too unsettling, but I tried falling onto a couch because I knew I'd fall one way or another, somehow I missed and landed on the floor and experienced a feeling of violently shaking/twitching for maybe 5 seconds before I slowly came back to almost baseline consciouseness. The thing is, no one else saw me fall or have that fit, so I can't be entirely sure it was as real as it felt, because doing DXM for long enough tends to make you a little delusional with certain things.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: SoundScape]
    #19510573 - 02/02/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

My wife suffers from a seizure disorder. She has absence, myoclonic, and tonic clonic seizures daily/weekly.

Now, from our many years dealing with this affliction, and from the many years of interacting with the seizure disorder community, I can tell you confidently that every person's seizure situation is unique. People have different triggers, tendencies, and the variations of medicine cocktails can differ greatly between people.

If your symptoms continue for more than few days, I would get my ass to a neurologist for some scans. My wife's postictal symptoms generally subside after about 30 minutes; we have a friend who also suffers from seizures, and she has side effects lasting for up to a week....so, again, it can really vary.

Lastly, I'm not sure of your age, but seizure disorders can be somewhat random when it comes to age and diagnosis. My wife had two seizures when she was a kid, and then none until she was 16, and since then (she's 28 now), she has had them daily/weekly without much change. I know a girl who was diagnosed with her first seizure at 24, and has been having them constantly since then.

Hope that helps.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: Syle]
    #19514970 - 02/03/14 08:45 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I don't think you had a seizure either. I think you were just really fucked up on mushrooms.  Assessing medical conditions while tripping on mushrooms is :lol:

Seizures lasting more than a couple minutes are fairly uncommon - two hours is almost impossible. Seizures are caused by neurons firing in an uncontrolled manner and these neurons become too fatigued to work without normal time to recover, limiting the amount of time seizures can last.

Seizures can manifest in many ways, but a "déjà vu" seizure happens because of the area in the brain where the disturbance occurs. If this spreads to motor areas, then you are talking about a generalized seizure and you probably would not have been conscious, and that kind of seizure would probably be fatal if it lasted two hours.


Edited by koods (02/03/14 08:56 AM)


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: koods]
    #19519506 - 02/04/14 07:55 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I don't think you had a seizure either. I think you were just really fucked up on mushrooms.  Assessing medical conditions while tripping on mushrooms is :lol:

Seizures lasting more than a couple minutes are fairly uncommon - two hours is almost impossible. Seizures are caused by neurons firing in an uncontrolled manner and these neurons become too fatigued to work without normal time to recover, limiting the amount of time seizures can last.

Seizures can manifest in many ways, but a "déjà vu" seizure happens because of the area in the brain where the disturbance occurs. If this spreads to motor areas, then you are talking about a generalized seizure and you probably would not have been conscious, and that kind of seizure would probably be fatal if it lasted two hours.




This.

Though, I wouldn't rule out him having a seizure without knowing more. His sense of time and awareness could have been really out of whack depending on what type of seizure he had. For example, my wife doesn't even recognize me for up to 30 minutes after one of her seizures. Also, sometimes she's not even aware she had a seizure...I have to remind her of it.


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: Syle]
    #19617549 - 02/25/14 05:10 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe they are anxiety attacks then ? It's happened no on mushrooms again and lsd and on the come down from mxe. I want to be clear though, I get these 'zaps' where it feels like I'm being jolted with electricity and I get these bizarre hallucinations, while shaking a lot. I am seeing a doctor on the tenth and hopefully they can get me on an EEG machine to check for any abnormalities... It happened this past Saturday when I took 225 it of al-lad and then took half a hit of LSD. I also got painful muscle spasms as well which my friend gave me etizolam for which helped a lot. I'm starting to think that this is anxiety related though.

On another not it didn't seem like any of this was happening to me till after I quit pot for legal reasons. I trip fairly in frequently at least compared to some. Honestly I just want to know what all of it is


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19617604 - 02/25/14 05:19 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

The zaps I can tell you all about. You can make it happen by looking up with your eyes, not your head, right? The are a direct result of low serotonin levels. People get them when the stop taking SSRIs, and they get them when they've been doing too many serotonergic drugs.

All that shit happened to me from doing MDMA all the time. Eventually you will start having panic attacks from having a cup of coffee and any form of stimulation will send you over the edge. You need to stop taking everything and chill the fuck out. I'm not kidding.


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Edited by koods (02/25/14 05:21 PM)


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Re: seizures, drugs, and their cause [Re: 404]
    #19617875 - 02/25/14 06:06 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

StateOfMind404 said:
Maybe they are anxiety attacks then ? It's happened no on mushrooms again and lsd and on the come down from mxe. I want to be clear though, I get these 'zaps' where it feels like I'm being jolted with electricity and I get these bizarre hallucinations, while shaking a lot. I am seeing a doctor on the tenth and hopefully they can get me on an EEG machine to check for any abnormalities... It happened this past Saturday when I took 225 it of al-lad and then took half a hit of LSD. I also got painful muscle spasms as well which my friend gave me etizolam for which helped a lot. I'm starting to think that this is anxiety related though.

On another not it didn't seem like any of this was happening to me till after I quit pot for legal reasons. I trip fairly in frequently at least compared to some. Honestly I just want to know what all of it is




Dang,

Anxiety can cause some weird shit.... exponentially when in a psychedelic state. My brother thought he tore his aorta on 4 aco dmt. He went to hospital, found out he was fine. THey took xray and gave him some valium, bill was like 2,000$ prior to insurance. (He tried alittle 4 aco dmt a while later and started to get anxious and feel the same thing. Luckily it was a small dose and he rode it out)

But be careful at the doctor.....
SHit can get expensive REAL quick. My dad was having chest/back pain and muscle spasm type thing. We werent sure what it was so we took him to hospital. U wouldnt believe how expensive that was. Granted they did more than just an EEG (which they might try to do for you). He stayed overnight, they did ECG, CAT, and nuclear stress test. Gave him a few shots of morphine, valium, and a couple asprin. That was about it.

Bill was over 30,000 dollars. With insurance, our part come out to like ~5,000. We got billed from every different doctor that saw him during that time. Separate hourly bills.

Also, DONT let them talk u in to a CAT scan. That shit is like 100x the radiation as an xray and they keep coming out with negative studies on the effects of it on humans. Greatly increases your risk of getting cancer. And i just looked at the bill so I could give an accurate numbers... the CAT scan was most expensive part. $15,000 for 2 part CAT scan. They tried to talk my brother in to that shit too but he refused.

I want u to figure out what it is too. But just be aware of the potential cost of going to the doctor. That shit is a racket.

Anxiety coupled with what shulgin calls "energy tremors" could provide similar symptoms to seizures. He even has energy tremor in the glossary of Tihkal and frequently reports experiencing tremors on different chemicals.

Please post this on longecity.org and get some of their opinions. Theres a good bit of people in med school and doctors on those forums and some pretty knowledgeable members. I think you will get some helpful feedback.


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