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OfflineRoseM
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Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote * 1
    #1951352 - 09/25/03 04:31 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

I posted this before under a different username. I want to repost it because I can't believe this is working. Please go to the second post if this first post is too long for you. You'll still get the jist of the experiment.

Cervantes
9-16-03
A foaf is trying to do the impossible! Let's call him Don Quixote. This dude is crazy.

He got his hands on a capsule last year. This wasn't just any capsule you see, this came from a very good batch of some sort of (as of yet unidentified) psylocibe cubensis.

The capsule was gage 00 and it held about .2-.3g of crushed shrooms when it came into my friend's possession. This wasn't enough to consume so he decided to try growing it on rice cakes. He just sprinkled some of the contents of this capsule into four jars of substrate. He didn't use a glove box, just lifted the lids and sprinkled.

All four cakes grew mycelia but three showed early signs of contamination and were discarded. The last jar was doing great until the substrate became oversaturated with water.

My friend simply kept watering for four jars instead of one and drowned his one good jar. I took it easy on my friend. It was his first time growing and he hadn't yet discovered the shroomery forums.

Anyway, he was encouraged by his success and bought some growbags (Contamination and watering was a problem the last time) he, also, bought a B+ spore syringe. He expects to see good results this time.

You'd think this would satisfy my friend but no. It encourages him to persue his Quixotian dream of cloning this capsule once again. He tells me it is because he wants to find out what kind of strain it was.

He thinks honeywater is the way to go. I suggested Karo but he insitsts honey tastes better... that's my friend for you... always thinking with his stomach.

He made a batch of honeywater as per the instructions in the honeywater tek with a couple exceptions. He added the H2O2 immediately to the honeywater and he soaked some of his sample in H2O2 and drew it into a syringe to inoculate the water. This is because he is pretty sure the sample itself is contaminated. It was ground up after all. He knows the H2O2 will kill the spores but he is counting on some of the myclia to have survived the drying and grinding.

I will let you know how his project goes but this isn't a grow log.

My friend has a few questions.

First, is this kind of thing possible? I think so because his sample worked last time. To hear him tell it, this was some strong stuff.

Second, are spores the only things you can use from a sample this old? If so, he'll try again and wait to add the h2o2 so the spores will have a chance to grow. I know fresh pieces of shrooms can be used this way.

Third, if you think he is chasing windmills, where has my friend gone wrong?

This may be a premature post (His first batch of honeywater may work and he might not need help at all) but I've searched and found nothing related to his specific problem. He doesn't have much of this capsule left and will need to get it right soon if he is to get it right at all.

Help. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. My friend and his clones need you!


TripMeister
9-17-03

Well, considering that almost every cap of dried cubesis has its veils coated with spores, there's a very good chance that there are viable spores in that powder, yes. However, taking into consideration that the powder hasn't been kept sterile, the chances of growing an uncontaminated specimen of mycelium are very slim.

The best bet would be to make a slurry of the powder using sterile water and streak several agar plates (PDA or MEA) with the slurry and hope for the best. Honey water is more prone to contam on you.

Cervantes
9-17-03
Thanks TM, I'll make sure he does that if this experiment goes south.

Do you think slurrying in H2O2 killed this batch of honeywater? He isn't sure if the spores will be the only useful part of the sample at this point.

I know this sample has plenty of spores.

You shoulda' seen the stuff bubble in the H2O2. I hear there were bubbles like when you pour H2O2 on a wound. The peroxide was cleaning something.

TripMeister
9-17-03
There's no way to know for sure if he killed the spores or not without attempting to germinate them.

Do I think he did? Probably.

Ever put shroom powder into Coca-Cola? Now THAT'S bubbles!

Cervantes
9-17-03
Now I'm craving pop rocks.

Cervantes
9-21-03
I just got back from Don Quixote's house. His jar had a patch of stringy white about the size of a quarter-50 cent piece on the bottom. It also, had a few brown specks floating above which he insists have been there from the beginning. Could be honey, could be from the H2O2 Powder slurry he put in. The specks don't seem to be multiplying or getting bigger.

He shook it up and it completely broke apart.

How does it sound like it is going? Should the myclea hold together better when it is shaken?

Don was quite surprised to see this jar was growing at all considering he had attacks from the green and black molds, and cobweb when he grew in jars from the same sample. This sample is over 1 1 /2 years old. My friend tells me and it has been kept at room temperature inside its capsule that whole time.

I'm sure it isn't a super strain, but it sure wants to come back to life. I'll keep you updated on its progress. Next time I see Don, I'll check his honey water and post it here.

At what point should he put it in the fridge?

fortyounces2freedom
9-21-03
assume your capsule is contaminated.,
your only option is to isolate via agar.,
and by that, yer going to need alot of plates.

h202 will kill spores and bacteria,
h202 will not kill germinated spores (and by that im not only talking about mushroom spores)

hope that helps.

Cervantes
9-21-03
What I'm wondering about Don's sample is this: Will the germinated mushroom sportes continue to grow after they have been dry for a year and a half and soaked in H2O2?

Granted, I'll probably have to tell him to try agar, but so far the honeywater looks like it is working.

He's in no hurry because he incubated a batch with B+ at the same time as he tried to make the honey water. He just wants to try to get some liquid myclea before this B+ batch is finished. This way, he'll be able to start another grow around November.

I tell Don Quixote what you guys tell me.

I tell him to get some agar plates going but he is a little timid at this point. He is such a n00b mycologist, he wants to stick with honey/karo until it fails. It is a much simpler process (if it works). So far, and I know it is hard to believe, the one honey jar he knocked up appears to be working.

There is a lot of white fluffy stuff on the bottom of the jar. When you shake it looks like a snow globe. The only colored parts in the jar are honey colored or from the mushroom sample itself. The colored parts have neither grown or multiplied since day one.

My eye is untrained but everything I have heard and read leads me to believe this is a good batch of honey water.

Today, there is twice as much white as there was yesterday. The jar was started one week ago. Soon, he will fill a syringe and try to grow a batch.

If this honey water is used to inoculate substrate successfully, you'll be sure to hear about the further adventures of Don Quixote in the Grow Log Forum.

Don Quixote can't believe the honey water is working. In fact, after I told him what some experienced posters have said in this thread, he is beginning to doubt his luck. He wonders if he is really seeing mycelia or if he is the proud possessor of a jar full of contaminants. Don Quixote has been known to chase windmills.

What types of contaminants should he be looking for? Why is this working (It shouldn't work right?)? Does dry myclia realy live for 1 1/2 years?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (09/25/03 07:40 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1951377 - 09/25/03 04:40 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Does dry myclia realy live for 1 1/2 years?

Today, I went to Don Quixote's house and looked at his honey water. There is a white membrane covering the bottom of the glass and a few stringy white strands floating in the water.

It looks like some honey caramelized above the water line in the jar because when the jar is shaken, Amber specks fall from near the lid of the jar. These specks don't seem to be growing or multiplying... except when the jar is shaken and more are knocked loose.

I've looked around these boards and I have seen nothing about these amber flakes. I guess if they aren't growing, Don shouldn't be concerned.

Why is this working? Do you think a spore survived the H2O2 or do you think the dry mycelium was cloned in the jar. Don's success is accidental and he would like to know why it is working.

When should Don make his syringes? When should he put the honey water in the fridge?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.



--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (09/25/03 07:38 PM)


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OfflinetwistedJay
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1951390 - 09/25/03 04:43 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

too much readin.
ps. kilik is better


--------------------
this has been a message from a twisted ass mutha fucka. and if you dont like it.........EAT A DICK!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: twistedJay]
    #1951430 - 09/25/03 04:52 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Some day twistedjay, these forums will be read to you. Untill then... good luck.

WTF is Kilik? Karo?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1951458 - 09/25/03 05:01 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Ah, you're stuck on a video game. Stuck on some guy named... wait for it... Kilik (Soul Caliber 2). Mystery solved (I'm enjoying Simpsons Road Rage)... back on topic.



--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflinetwistedJay
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1951482 - 09/25/03 05:09 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

you win!


--------------------
this has been a message from a twisted ass mutha fucka. and if you dont like it.........EAT A DICK!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: twistedJay]
    #1951522 - 09/25/03 05:24 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

yay!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1951722 - 09/25/03 06:24 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

I'm still curious about the ambyr specks that appear when the jar is shaken. Has anyone encountered them? Is it carmalized honey? I haven't seen anything written about contaminants that look like this.

I am also curious as to why Don's expiriment appears to be working. Only growing the liquid myc in substrate will show for certain if this experiment is a success but it looks just like it is supposed to.

When will Don be able to innoculate a batch with his honey water? He wants to see if his experiment will succeed but he doesn't want to fill a syringe prematurely.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1951761 - 09/25/03 06:39 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

The amber flakes are being surrounded and assimilated by the white mycleum. I think it is honey. It is like the myc is taking whatever nutrients it can from the carmelized sugar... ah well... what do I know?

Has anyone encountered amber flakes in honey water?

The water didn't carmelize but I think a bit of honey that stuck to the jar above the water line did.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleMarioNett
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1952689 - 09/25/03 11:58 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

How much honey per water did he use? I use about a tablespoon of honey in a cup of water, and I haven't seen any carmelization or amber specks.

I'm not suprised this is working though. I had some spore solution contaminate once, and every cake I used it on contammed in at least one spot. I took a tiny sample of healthy mycellium though, grew it out in honey water, and in a few days had nice injectable liqiud culture, 100% healthy when I grew it out on some cakes.

BTW as for honey tasting better, it tastes truly nasty when diluted in water like that. Don't ask how I know that...


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: MarioNett]
    #1952838 - 09/26/03 12:43 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

He used about 3/4 pint of water and 1 tablespoon of honey. Basically, he used way too much water. He used the 100 ml recipe but he used 3/4 pint.


I just got off the phone with Don and he said he thinks some of the honey may have stuck to the jar when he put it in with the spoon. You see his jar was cool and so was the water when he put the honey in. Now he knows to pre heat the jar before adding honey. If it isn't a contaminant (contaminants are cloudy and grow. This stuff is amber colered and shiny... like it cooled on hot glass. It dhows no signs of growth) he thinks some honey must've caramelized above the water line. All the honey in the water remained uncarmelized.

The only thing I have heard of that would fit this description is caramelized honey... perhaps rust, but the lid wasn't rusty when I started and it isn't getting fresh oxygen.

Don just read the honey water tek and made one jar. That tek gives minimal info. He, also, did enough research to discover people dipped fresh specimens in h2o2 before putting them in honey water.

He couldn't find any info about anyone successfully cloning dry shrooms in honey water but he thought he'd give it a try.

Since then, I have been feeding him info from the boards here at the Shroomery. If he had it to do over again, he'd use less water, more honey, more h2o2 and some dextrose.

When he makes the syringe, he'll sniff the jar. So far, everything has been in vitro so he can do nothing but look at it. Does it sound like it is time to make a syringe? He's not sure how much growth will happen in this watered down jar.

As for the taste of honey water, Don Quixote is a fan of honey in his Mint/Shroom tea. He likes the idea of starting and finishing the process the same way. He told me to tell Supercollider "I bet honey water tastes a LOT better than karo water!"... that's Don... always thinking with his sentimental stomach.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleMarioNett
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: Rose]
    #1952899 - 09/26/03 01:07 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

I bet honey water tastes a LOT better than karo water!




hah, good point.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Help With Honey Water or The Adventures of Don Quixote [Re: MarioNett]
    #1987042 - 10/07/03 04:18 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

OK an update.

Last week, Don Quixote filled a 10cc syringe with h202, opened the jar, injected the h2o2 and drew 10 cc of honey water into the syringe.

The syringe is in Don's fridge.

While the jar was open, Don Quixote and I took a good sniff. The jar, to our surprise, smelled like sweet water.

Over a week has passed since the syringe was made and the jar looks the same. Whatever is growing in the jars is white. Don decided to keep the jar at room temperature since contaminants would show themselves quicker if they grew at room temp.

Anything other than mycelia would have shown itself by now right?

Don is going to put the jar in the fridge and wait for results from his new syringe.

P.S. most of the amber floaters have been devoured by the mycelia. It probably was carmalized honey.

I'll be sure to let you all know whatever ends up growing from this sample.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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