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Enigma1
Positive



Registered: 08/15/13
Posts: 977
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Cloning ? for experienced cloners
#19211655 - 12/01/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I new to cloning mushrooms but I have experience cloning tomatoes when I use to clone plants I did not necessarily go for the biggest meatheaded looking plant because I had a sixth sense on which one was going to be more potent and produce more resin by studying the plant as it grew.
Anyway I need to get your heads and pick your brain. My question for you experienced mushroom cloner what qualities do you look when choosing a specimen to clone?
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mastercultivator
Master Cultivator



Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 653
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Enigma1]
#19211688 - 12/01/13 09:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It depends on the species, when you clone, and why.
If you are starting out I suggest cloning P. Cubensis fruitbodies.
Find a good spore race from someone you know. Also have something in mind for what you want to achieve. Some spore races like Koh Samui produce massive mushrooms but fewer of them and do well outdoors, some spore races like PE don't produce spores and should be cloned early and often, other spore races make great commercial producers indoors.
Characteristics to look for are as follows for P. Cubensis after you have secured a known good spore race for your needs.
in my opinion...
Potency. Dark blueing reaction when cut at base and on cap when mushroom cut in half. Solid Stem. A solid stem will result in higher yields. High Yielding Knobbled stem. Solid Stemmed fruit bodies may have a knobbled stem and late development of spores just like many clone only cultivars of PE. Look for it it happens with other cubes. Evenly developing and sized mushrooms. Quick even colonization and holding of the substrate. Spore Development.
I also encourage adding crushed gypsum to your mix. Gypsum does enhance fungal growth and is needed for it's metabolism.
<edit - One more thing> You can clone pins with ease. I let them bulk up a bit and get them at about 1" long and just drop them on agar. You might want to chop off the top to prevent spores but in most cases those spores will never develop. The reason to use pins is you don't have to extract the tissue since the growth is soo rapid. Just drop them on agar and watch them explode. They sit there for 2-12 hours thinking what is going on then the mycellium just takes off.
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    I'm awesome sauce with a dash of sunshine.
Edited by mastercultivator (12/01/13 09:42 AM)
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Quote:
mastercultivator said:
<edit - One more thing> You can clone pins with ease. I let them bulk up a bit and get them at about 1" long and just drop them on agar. You might want to chop off the top to prevent spores but in most cases those spores will never develop. The reason to use pins is you don't have to extract the tissue since the growth is soo rapid. Just drop them on agar and watch them explode. They sit there for 2-12 hours thinking what is going on then the mycellium just takes off.
No, you don't. Stop bullshitting.
OP, for clones from MS many people like to take a small piece of tissue from the top of a stipe on a really great pin that appeared early and put it to agar. Once it's there, they take the fastest rhizomorphic growth they can find. Stropharis made a really great tek on cloning and isolation a while back.
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JML



Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 347
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Enigma1]
#19212083 - 12/01/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP there are several qualities to look for, just like cloning tomatoes. Personally I like to ingest the mushrooms from whichever batch I wish to clone. Potency is very important, as well as yield.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 6,846
Loc: In the Gills
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Psilicon]
#19212146 - 12/01/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
mastercultivator said:
<edit - One more thing> You can clone pins with ease. I let them bulk up a bit and get them at about 1" long and just drop them on agar. You might want to chop off the top to prevent spores but in most cases those spores will never develop. The reason to use pins is you don't have to extract the tissue since the growth is soo rapid. Just drop them on agar and watch them explode. They sit there for 2-12 hours thinking what is going on then the mycellium just takes off.
No, you don't. Stop bullshitting.
OP, for clones from MS many people like to take a small piece of tissue from the top of a stipe on a really great pin that appeared early and put it to agar. Once it's there, they take the fastest rhizomorphic growth they can find. Stropharis made a really great tek on cloning and isolation a while back.
Yes you do its not bullshit. I've done this many times and putting a pin
right on agar is an easy and fast way to make a good clone.
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JML



Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 347
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: rumfor69]
#19212161 - 12/01/13 11:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You want to cut open a fruit body and use the inside to avoid contamination. Putting a pin on agar will work, but there's also a huge chance of contams.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 6,846
Loc: In the Gills
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: JML]
#19212187 - 12/01/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
mastercultivator said:
<edit - One more thing> You can clone pins with ease. I let them bulk up a bit and get them at about 1" long and just drop them on agar. You might want to chop off the top to prevent spores but in most cases those spores will never develop. The reason to use pins is you don't have to extract the tissue since the growth is soo rapid. Just drop them on agar and watch them explode. They sit there for 2-12 hours thinking what is going on then the mycellium just takes off.
No, you don't. Stop bullshitting.
OP, for clones from MS many people like to take a small piece of tissue from the top of a stipe on a really great pin that appeared early and put it to agar. Once it's there, they take the fastest rhizomorphic growth they can find. Stropharis made a really great tek on cloning and isolation a while back.
Yes you do its not bullshit. I've done this many times and putting a pin
right on agar is an easy and fast way to make a good clone.
Quote:
JML said: You want to cut open a fruit body and use the inside to avoid contamination. Putting a pin on agar will work, but there's also a huge chance of contams.
Of course there will be contams its not sterile. The point here is that
the myce grows so fast its simple to get a clean leading edge to get a transfer
from then grow clean on another dish. Had success many many times with this.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: rumfor69]
#19212192 - 12/01/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not between two and twelve hours. I've never seen battered mycelium recover and spread in that period.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 6,846
Loc: In the Gills
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Psilicon]
#19212203 - 12/01/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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A pin can grow into a full fruit body in 12hrs that is the speed the mcye
is growing at so when you put it to agar it does the same thing.
Maybe a little slower than that but still very very fast.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: rumfor69]
#19212217 - 12/01/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you guys really arguing about this?
You can clone by placing a pin to agar. I've seen RR say it too.
The mycelium is spreading so rapidly it will overrun any contams that are going to try to make a home. Even if they get a hold, you're going to want to transfer away from the original tissue before putting the culture to grains anyhow.
I've done it before dozens of times, I just prefer to use full-grown fruits so I can better assess which specimens I want to propagate 
OP, I clone the biggest fruits from the biggest clusters. Then I isolate out any sectors and fruit them to see which ones to keep. The mushrooms are plenty strong 99% of the time. I clone for yield.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (12/01/13 12:06 PM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: rumfor69]
#19212242 - 12/01/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
rumfor69 said: A pin can grow into a full fruit body in 12hrs that is the speed the mcye is growing at so when you put it to agar it does the same thing. Maybe a little slower than that but still very very fast.
If you catch it late, sure they'll continue expanding a little, especially stretching the cap out which means you got it Too late for that kind of transfer.
Get them as PINS. They'll stop growing and shift to recolonization. The growth from small pins will be much healthier and thicker, resulting in a better culture.
It's not been my experience that pins switch to colonization and jump onto agar as quickly as a wedge transfers which always go faster for me. I do dozens of pin clones in a culturing run and mine always sit two sometimes three days fuzzing up before they even start to get running. The advantage of skipping several transfers while assuredly having a fruiting strain is incredibly worth the extra couple days.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19212335 - 12/01/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:Then I isolate out any sectors and fruit them to see which ones to keep.
This! No matter what specimen you pick or when you will most likely get multiple sets of genetics in your clone and these need to be separated out to get an isolate.
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Enigma1
Positive



Registered: 08/15/13
Posts: 977
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19213511 - 12/01/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What's isolating sectors
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Enigma1]
#19213764 - 12/01/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Check the link I provided above.
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mastercultivator
Master Cultivator



Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 653
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: rumfor69]
#19213824 - 12/01/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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rumfor69,
Thanks for explaining for me. Violet had a great pic in the rice water agar thread of a pin on agar growing and expanding just fine.
It is a beautiful thing.
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    I'm awesome sauce with a dash of sunshine.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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van der griegen, lay off mastercultivator some, You're wrong - YES you CAN put a pin on agar without contamination as long as it is in clean conditions, and even if it's not too clean the pin could quite possibly outrun contamination, particularly if the contam is only at the pin in which case it may not even show in time for a clean transfer.
Your bad rating of mastercultivator is uncalled for. Yes the speed of recovery and growth he mentioned is some unrealistic, but he is not "bullshitting" us about this at least. Lighten up a little...
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Violet]
#19214432 - 12/01/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: van der griegen, lay off mastercultivator some, You're wrong - YES you CAN put a pin on agar without contamination as long as it is in clean conditions, and even if it's not too clean the pin could quite possibly outrun contamination, particularly if the contam is only at the pin in which case it may not even show in time for a clean transfer.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: PussyFart]
#19215046 - 12/01/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I still think taking a clonal sample from the interior of a pin is best practice, rather than just throwing a pin on agar, and you can't tell me with a straight face that two hours is only "somewhat" unreasonable. The fact that he's so far off on that tells me he hasn't done this, which is why I called him a bullshitter. But I respect both of your opinions, and since you're willing to vouch for him I'll remove the rating.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: Cloning ? for experienced cloners [Re: Psilicon]
#19215051 - 12/01/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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John in WI
Neo-Luddite


Registered: 12/18/13
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Quote:
mastercultivator said: <edit - One more thing> You can clone pins with ease. I let them bulk up a bit and get them at about 1" long and just drop them on agar. You might want to chop off the top to prevent spores but in most cases those spores will never develop. The reason to use pins is you don't have to extract the tissue since the growth is soo rapid. Just drop them on agar and watch them explode. They sit there for 2-12 hours thinking what is going on then the mycellium just takes off.
I know this is an old post--but this technique of cloning a pin has me very interested.
I have such a cluster, and would love to clone it. I didn't realize it was this easy to do. But the PF cakes are sitting in a shotgun chamber. Aren't they filthy from being exposed so long? I mean, if I set it on agar without preparation, won't I probably end up with bacteria?
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