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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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been five minutes...change of heart?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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GimpCollector
To Drunk To Taste The Chicken

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 1,097
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: cronicr]
#19494336 - 01/29/14 11:32 PM (10 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: been five minutes...change of heart?
That's not very Christian of you.

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MarcusFreeman



Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 376
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Quote:
J. Jack Flash said: dunno you think it was too much. =D
the coherent thought was obviously lost, but the spirit came through. for fuck's sake shut the fuck up.
i marvel at how people of like mind, that is, working toward such a flagrantly illegal end can all be at each others' throats because of something as meaningless as... what? a chosen approach? plastic vs glass? using fucking fertilizer? adding shit to a growth medium or not? fuck you all, intolerant cretins. there's so many forces in this world looking to deal us all a fucking deathblow, we should be united against them, not antagonizing each other. this is precisely how they win, by dividing us.
i'm seven seconds from checking out of this forum. lotsa luck to us all.
Yeah, I know what you are saying. I felt similar, and took a break. My main issue was sifting through all the meaningless bickering to actually get the good info. I was a little shocked at the lengths folks go to defend their online alter egos.
I don't think I felt as frustrated as you are. It was more or less a passive "ah, fuck it. I'm going to do school work instead of reading the silly reciprocations and rhetoric"
O well.
-------------------- "The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK As one ends, another begins.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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the thing is....it's shroomery101 and theres no escape! but good info comes from these disagreements so it's not always a bad thing, just sit back eat some popcorn and whip the notebook out
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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So, hmm, before the death spiral works its way to a full lock...
Doesn't seem it'd be that hard to test the, uhm, claim that nutes+sub=better alkaloid production. Even if it's already been done a hundred times or whatever, and even if it's obvious BS, because as has been said, if it did work, people would actually be using this full time. 
Asking for the proof twice gets nothing, draw yer own conclusions.
But you'd think somebody who thought that it mattered - and wasn't just living a bubble of confirmation bias - would maybe run the simple experiment, side by side, ordinary sub in column a, sub+nutes in column b, straight up and see, maybe once in a couple decades or so. One wonders why not (unless - oh wait - nothing happened because the fungi are primary decomposers and extract their nutes directly with power tools). Still, maybe somebody would like to try it, fuck, it can't cost much, even if you have to buy a little bottle of miraclegro or whatever. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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MarcusFreeman



Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 376
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: cronicr]
#19494377 - 01/29/14 11:45 PM (10 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: the thing is....it's shroomery101 and theres no escape! but good info comes from these disagreements so it's not always a bad thing, just sit back eat some popcorn and whip the notebook out
Lol yup! That's why I haven't said much recently- just watching. Not saying much means I haven't had any issues as of late, so that's a good thing.
-------------------- "The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK As one ends, another begins.
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Mushroom_J
Hard to the Coir !



Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 774
Loc: East
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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.....I didn't write this but i think it's interesting..... ............................................................
One factor worth considering is that the world's most potent psilocybes (by far) are produced on 100% wood chips, which don't score very well at all on a NPK analysis.
Of course there's plenty of nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium (and micro-nutes) in the wood but they're all bound up in the cellulose and lignin. That suggests the mycelium can break the wood apart to liberate them for it's own use (making mushrooms) which is not a surprise since this whole family of fungi are primary decomposers (saprophytes) so that's their primary purpose for existing (besides tripping us out, of course).
What seems to be happening (IMO) is that an organic substrate (hpoo and/or straw) is being perceived as equivalent to soil in the sense that the fungi is growing in it and not so much from it. It's probably a common conception among those who came to mycology after becoming knowledgable in horticulture since there are a lot of superficial similarities between plants and fungi. Soil holds up the plant and is fed with nutrients that the plant can consume. But unlike a potted plant, in a tray of colonized straw/poop the substrate both provides the physical structure to hold the colony together (like soil) AND directly feeds it (like fertilizer). So supplementing a food source with more food is redundant although the easier availability of fertilizer in salt form may well effect the speed of colonization.
However, by relieving a strain of it's need to break down straw, poop, or wood by itself we may be trading speed for resiliency over the long term. If an organism no longer needs to produce a lot of enzymes for breaking down organic materials because it's getting them pre-digested as fertilizer then over repeated generations it would be reasonable to expect that at some point the strain would become "addicted" to fertilizer. Stamets suggested adding some powdered straw or poop to agar used for culturing species that consume them so as to better acclimate the strain to it's eventual food source.
The implication of Stamets' suggestion is that the strain is encouraged to adapt and produce the proper enzymes from the outset and colonization of organic substrates will therefore be faster. If that is what's actually going on then it seems to me the opposite would also be true; feeding them fertilizer is the equivalent of baby food in that it's real easy to consume and digest but if one only ever eats baby food then one will probably not handle solid food very well without some time to re-adapt.
Over time this may reduce a strain's overall resiliency and that may have undesirable side effects like lowered resistance to contamination or diminished vigor in general. It's like how if we only ever sit around all day the muscles we use for walking will atrophy and if we suddenly decide to go for a long walk we won't like it and it'll take longer than it would if we'd been going on long walks regularly. In other words, some kinds of stress are beneficial and strengthen us (or a fungal colony) and eliminating beneficial stress can have a lot of negative consequences over the long term (that goes for any organism, which is also why I'm a fan of heated and highly-contentious debates on forums, lol).
I think the concept of substrate fertilization is sound (the mycelium will use the nutes) but at the same time superfluous (the mycelium can get what it needs directly from the substrate either way). Potency is going to be limited by the strain's genetics which is why the most well-fertilized cubensis in the universe will still never approach the potency of woodlovers grown on 100% wood. That means wood IS the fertilizer, or rather is a "profertilizer" in the sense that psilocybin is a prodrug (it breaks down in vivo to become psilocin, the active drug). Same goes for manure or straw. "Profertilizer" is not a real word, but maybe should be.
IME (which so far does not include supplementing with fertilizer salts) the best way to boost potency of cubensis grown on straw or poop is to pasteurize it for an extended period of time (keep it at pasteurization temp. for 8 hours or more). The explosion of thermophiles this encourages seems to help speed up colonization and maximize potency up to its genetic potential by the same means as adding fertilizer but does so by giving the thermophiles enough time to "work" on the straw (that is, they start decomposing the straw in the pasteurizer thereby saving the fungi a lot of work). When cool and dormant, those thermophiles act as nutrient reservoirs since they are living cells (so would contain all the elements necessary for life by definition) and if the fungi can consume them (I suspect it can) then a long pasteurization time would be equivalent to supplementing with fertilizer. But since the thermophiles are not salts, they still require decomposition by the mycelium so it's digestive ability is not weakened like it would be if it were only consuming a steady diet of pre-chewed baby food.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Primal Soup---im with u on this brother! i have wondered the same! but here is where i think the trouble lies... we do the said "comparison thread". we all go along, just like any other thread/tek out there and follow. now the problem lies in the "trip report" to determine potency. how do u know i didn't have bias out my ass for the fertilizer or against the fertilizer (or any other nutrient u can sub in there). unless many of us got together, it wouldn't mean much, and even if we did, thats still say, what 50 ppl at a "shroomery party" (which I'm sooooo down for BTW) against the world. Unless a member here has access to the lab equipment (not just anne ) how can we REALLY tell if certain nutrients/additive really did add anything?
and even if a single member did have access to that equipment, how are we to determine THEIR personal bias? or even determine the amt of trust we have in them with their "lab equipment" and the proper usage of said equipment?
im not trying to argue for or against supplementing anything (if i did it would not be fertilizer, I'm more prone to organic stuff, coffee, bran ,etc) I'm just saying "trip reports" are....not the most scientific 
we do not have the law on our side, both on a personal level and even scientific level as far as psychedelics are concerned. any studies about behavior/depression/ocd/cluster migraines/PTSD/ etc are ALL done with chemically synthesized end products. even in the 60's with the "Good Friday" leary study, it as synthetic psilocybin. all the new studies are done in a similar fashion, as far as i know (Griffith's study, Doblin's study, Strassman's study, Pahnke's study ALL lab synthesized, no extraction of a natural material).
we DO have information about the % psilocybin/psilocyn/baeocystin (sp?) of many species of actives, but its not something the science community update every year you know? HEADLINE NEWS "Psilocybe Cubensis is up in potency this year .04% and the Dow Jones is falling in response to that" kind of a thing.
just saying, i would LOVE to see some proof. but where is that proof to be found?
edit: just wanna make clear i post this not to argue, but for the sake of knowledge.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
Edited by blindingleaf (01/30/14 04:02 AM)
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robbinbanks
Not a Stranger



Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Great Plains
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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ummm agreed... as for the people who talk shit to anne and violet, you people are down right hateful. They defend there tek, you guys defend all the other ones, which obviously gives you more to work with and less ways to mess up. You dont like there tek, say so...you think other teks are better, say so. There is no need to get political, attack a persons character, and continuously call them a liar. There is no need to get everybody pissed off reading this crap. RR shouldnt take sides or encourage this behavior by doing so! Im a noob doing bulk and v tek now. V tek is performing like it says, so is bulk. If v tek or bulk doesn't work on my first attempt i will not discredit the 2, and attack the people who took the time to put it together for us! lets be constructive, because most of the garbage doesn't help further peoples skills, nor does it make anyone want to grow mushrooms.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Clearing up BS is not "taking sides".
Pastey did a fuckin awesome tub, and a couple not so awesome cased grains. Just as 99,9% of us expected.
Please take this bullshit to a different thread.
Violet is actually documenting her pp5 cased grains grow right now, and according to her it will be freakin awesome.
Pastey: are you still thinkin of doing round 2 with your new knowledge of these pp5 cased grains?
I bet your 4th flush will kick ass as well, so please (everyone else) let's keep this thread from getting closed before the experiment is done.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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to robbinbanks... my post was not agreeing with anyone. i am just sating what i think. it is neither for or against any one, any thing, any side, any tek. it was merely pointing out the fact that its difficult to determine potency based on substrate/additives/nutrients other than "trip reports".
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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robbinbanks
Not a Stranger



Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Great Plains
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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i didnt say it was lol
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robbinbanks
Not a Stranger



Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Great Plains
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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I have just as much a right to be here as you do spacechild
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robbinbanks
Not a Stranger



Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 64
Loc: Great Plains
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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hold up...what are you talking about? lol i wasnt refering to you in anything i said.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Re: Cased grains vs Bulk Substrates: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19495268 - 01/30/14 05:44 AM (10 years, 25 days ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: This thread has run its course and now serves only as a platform for drama.
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