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Offlineabbacus1
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Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis
    #19484037 - 01/27/14 10:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My name is Clockwork Abbacus and I have had a dream
"Walking along a dusty road, my vision laid upon the library of Alexandria."
Now I know this is beyond my scale and comprehension of chemistry so I pose the idea to the forum to get any other opinions

Nootropics
smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that purportedly improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence,

Psychotropics
psychoactive compounds

I think with the two used in unison that the human mind can greatly achieve the fullest potential. why cant we make a compound that effects the cognitive perception and the aility to comprehend and store knowledge. I have been researching this avenue for several months now. I have only begun to scrath the surface as a regular supply of compounds to work with are lacking.
what I have seen so far about nootropics is that it has to build up in your system over several doses to see any effects expect where the doses are large such as 300-400mg of ginko biloba will increase retention of knowledge and also highten cognitive thought processes.

so why not add a little tma-2 (I hink this is the way to go) or some mescaline (3,4,5 trimethoxyphenthylamine) to open ones "third eye" at a low dose as to where you do not succumb to the actual psychoactive level of the compound but just enough to highten the potential of the human mind?



I say research in any way shape or form should be done in this area. the human mind is capable of so much more then we know.

now I open the floor to the forum. and discuss

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InvisibleBeside the Garden
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: abbacus1]
    #19484049 - 01/27/14 10:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

See the movie "limitless", if you haven't you will like it..

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Offlineabbacus1
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: Beside the Garden]
    #19484056 - 01/27/14 10:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

that was one of the inspirations to this topics as well as many others:cool: ive thought about this for a decade or so

cause ive always believed that this was possible ever since I discovered nootropics and I think that the missing key in those drugs are the psychoactive compounds to effect the uptake receptors in the brain that control norepinephrine and dopamine

Edited by abbacus1 (01/27/14 11:08 PM)

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OfflineRiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: abbacus1]
    #19484152 - 01/27/14 11:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ginko has never been proven to help with memory and it recently was linked to cancer.  Careful with your folk medicines.  Not sure how safe the 'cetams are but they seem to be more reliably effective in neuro-protectivity and I know people who use them to minimize memory loss from having to take benzos daily for medical conditions, though I wouldn't totally discount the placebo effect.  I've taken them and noticed no difference.  If I want to potentiate a psychedelic I'm going to use MDMA or a natural MAOI like caapi or rue (only with certain tryptamines mind you), rather than take some vitamin supplements.  Any effect is likely placebo in that case.


--------------------
RZJ's Tea Tek
RZJ's Tradelist

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Offlines240779
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: abbacus1] * 1
    #19485175 - 01/28/14 08:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Parallels between the nootropic, hydergine, and LSD, both of which are ergolines, both of which were invented by Albert Hofmann (the later, in tandem with Arthur Stoll). qhi.co.uk sells hydergine and you can try other chemical suppliers.


For me, the ergoloids (LSD, hydergine, nicergoline, ergometrine) are just chemical perfection. For example, my brain reacts so amazingly well to LSD: I can function perfectly in so-called "normal" society, with perfect cognitive lucidity on up to 4-5 decent hits and I have never had anything even resembling a bad experience, on a low dose, a high dose or anything in-between.

If LSD were more available and cheaper, I would love to try the famous "Hofmann cocktail." That is, take a few hits of LSD, drop them in like 500ml of distilled, deionized water (with a tiny bit of ascorbic acid in there for oxidative protection) in a light-proof bottle and put the bottle in the fridge. Then every day, take a couple of swigs for a nice, low-dose nootropic effect. In essence, what you are doing here is using it as a non-visual psychedelic--something that expands cognition, sans any "hallucinogenic" trippy perceptual effects. Apparently, this became Hofmann's favorite way of using LSD, rather than taking it in mindfuck, full immersive doses.

Thankfully, hydergine can also serve this purpose rather well, but I've always wanted to try it with real LSD, just as an experiment. I would also love to try lisuride for the same reason. It has similar a similar receptor binding profile to LSD, but is a very weak (as in sub-hallucinogenic) partial agonist at the 5-HT2A receptor, with a tad more dopaminergic impact. The cool thing (other than the fact that it is legal) is that it is also extremely potent, with doses around 250ug and acts as a functional antagonist at the 5-HT2B receptor, so there is no risk of cardiac fibrosis like there is with the dopaminergic ergoloids pergolide and carbergoline (both of which have the same efficacy as 5-HT itself in activating the 2B receptor). Of the ergoloids, lisuride, LSD, bromocriptine and nicergoline have the lowest risk of cardiac fibrosis, as they are far weaker than 5-HT itself at the 5-HT2B receptor.

Edit: To add, I do not agree with the idea that LSD has no nootropic effects at high doses. I think perhaps that just the opposite might be true--high-dose LSD might be too nootropic to be successfully integrated during the acute experience. A parallel to amphetamine can be drawn: at moderate (therapeutic) doses, amphetamine is godsend for increasing focus and concentration, but at tweak-a-thon (recreational) doses, it is too focusing and can lead to obsessional/stereotyped thinking. Similarly, at low doses, LSD expands cognition and increases the capacity to see new solutions and ideas, whereas at high doses, there is such an intense flood of new ideas that it is hard for most people to stay on task. That said, both types of LSD experience have their place.


27-09-2008 - Riemann Zeta - The Low-Dose LSD Appreciation Thread


I definitely recommend hydergine, especially in combination with piracetam. The two are perfect together. I find hydergine to contribute to increased understanding and usage of language, both spoken and written, and most noticeably a mood leveling effect where I feel a bit sparkly all day, almost like an extremely low dose of LSD but completely positive. I also never get head rushes and feel like I'm getting plenty of oxygen. I believe one of its effects is to help regulate oxygen levels to the brain, reducing it if it's too much and increasing it if it's too little. If I recall correctly - and I can't be bother to look it up right now and it's been some time since I've thought about it - it's is sometimes given in cases where the heart needs to be stopped and blood flow will stop, increasing the time until brain damage from several minutes to I believe 20+.

Look it up and you'll find a pretty impressive array of health and cognitive benefits, for both hydergine and piracetam. Evidence seems to suggest that both, especially hydergine, are extremely healthy for the brain and can slow aging. And Albert Hofmann, the discoverer of both LSD and hydergine, took hydergine every day of his life and lived until 102, healthy until the end.


05-10-2009 - Xorkoth - The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread


Hi,

I'm recovering for long years of drug abuse mainly, Heroin, Ketamine, LSD, Meth, and Midazolam
I'm now living in Angola (Africa) for recovery but there is a lot of problem for me in Angola , drug stores never ask for prescription so I can easy get a lot of good stuff as opiates and benzos, but on streets just a lot of weed "I still smoking it" but no more other street drugs just some coke and MDMA but rarely you found it.
In the first month was very hard and i have buy a lot of midazolam and morphine IV ampoules not too much morphine 3 or 4 times, because i come from a long heroin addiction and when I arrived I was already 6 months clear and do not want another opiate or Keta addiction but I was close .
I'm still on meds benzos mainly but after all this I found my self "empty" and depressive, so one day I read about Hidergine and is effects on mental well being so decided to try it.
The effects at 4,5 mg is real there , feel more alive and starting to enjoy simple moments and more active and energetic. It really helps to drug induced depression and fatigue so i believe hydergine can really help drug addicts and many other mental disorders.
As hydergine is a mix of some ergot alkaloids i also wanted to discovery is possible psychedelic effects.
Even with a normal dose of 4.5mg I can see the psychedelic effects it guive a mental well being really like the lsd empathy but not as euphoric nor visual but colors become more defined and there is also that strange but good mental feeling of lsd.
So decide to try it in a bigger dose , I try 13.5 mg and this time the psychedelic effects become very more clear but they are mild is like a lsd trip without the dissociation and euphoric effects, but still euphoric at this dose and i feel very much alert to sound and colours and start a feeling of wonder and if you lay down with some music you can get a true meditative very pleasant effect.
I found this medicine to very effective my day's now are much better than before and i feel no more the opiate and keta induced depression and no more cravings for drugs, I feel no empty any more I fell happy and alive, so I believe that more research on hydergine can help many people.

Greetings


22-11-2012 - Amk - Hydergine as psychedelic and mental booster and drug addiction


In the continual self-proscribed courses of study we follow through entheogenic illumination, there are pitfalls of the flesh... the meat puppet takes damage for the sake of the soul. For milennia, the idea of salvation from mistaken dosages and purposed extremeties of conscious state gone awry have culminated into many medicines and practices designed to prevent, assist in the resistance of or heal the wounds of our magical obsessions. Most of these, I have found through my short tenure indulging in entheogenic extrapolations, are based on symptomatic progressions, and thus do not, I feel, always reach into the actualities of our variuos dilemmas. Hydergine, to all my faculties (real/imaginery, intellectual/emotional, mystical/scientific) reaches deeper than most, if not all, other 'smart' drugs.

Two hours after sublingual ingestion of a single pill, I attempted to smoke a cigarette, one of my more deplorable habits. I found myself nauseous, blissfully so, at the first puff. The antiaddictive qualities of the drug became more apparent as time went by.(this may be due to the 'law of fives', but I think there is far more to it than that... I have tempted insanity often enough to recognize the veil between egotistic projection and honest experience, for the most part). I flew through games of Go (Baduk, Weichi), with an understanding which bordered on constant gnosis during the performance of each move of the game.

The binary nature of perception became subtly more pronounced in my life during the time of my usage, and I fully intend to resume usage of the substance as soon as it becomes economically viable to do so.

I recommend careful experimentation to any and all entheogenicists, shamans, sorcerors, artists, scientists, etc. Honestly, sisters and brothers, the idea of 'feeling smarter' has never been so thorough, benign, and foundational as with this substance. There is a clue in this drug of the Way... a minor glyph for psychographical recapitulations...


Dr. J.G. Knaapen. "Ergoloid Miracle Drug; Psychic Penicillin: experience with Hydergine (ID 36966)". Erowid.org. Sep 25, 2004. erowid.org/exp/36966

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InvisibleBeside the Garden
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: s240779]
    #19486510 - 01/28/14 02:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Good post Da2ra, munches for me mind!

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Offlines240779
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: Beside the Garden]
    #19486675 - 01/28/14 03:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Haha, thank you.

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OfflineJesus Christ
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Re: Smart psychotropics? a look at the possibility of a Nootropic/Psychotropic symbiosis [Re: s240779]
    #19487961 - 01/28/14 07:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

thanks as well da2ra. ive been on the fence about getting some hydergine because it's so expensive but i keep hearing great things about it so i might have to buy some real soon. i love how it was discovered by hoffman as well!  anybody have any experience with it?

my only experience with nootropics is with piracetam. its really a wonderful substance and i can attest to it definitely not being a placebo. i cant really explain how it works really but i can say that as a result of taking it I feel a lot 'smoother' and cognitively healthier. i used to take about 3 grams everyday maybe with some choline (dont think i really needed it personally). right now i take it about 2 grams every other day and it works great although i might bump it up to once a day and see if it works better.

the things it does to drugs too is incredible. phenylpiracetam to a greater extent, but ive take both with lsd and its boosted the effects dramatically. it adds more precision to the trip and a lot of revelation and clarity.

and i agree OP, there's definitely an untapped potential in mixing the two. i might try doing lsd and piracetam combo in a low dose sometime.

edit: one thing i should add about nootropics (at least piractem and phenylpiracetam) is that they have this effect on me where i become sensitive to even physical process going on in my body.  like if i eat a shit meal at mcd's while on piracetam, i'll feel the effects of having done so.  likewise though if i keep up on my vitamin, diet, and exercise regiment, I'll feel the benefits multiplied while taking it. that's why i also think there's something more to combining them with psychedlics. in high doses there could be a greater propensity for great revelations that really stick after the trip, and an elimination of delusion.

Edited by Jesus Christ (01/28/14 07:10 PM)

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