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Offlinemonoculture
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Registered: 10/16/13
Posts: 246
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19489910 - 01/29/14 05:05 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

How is that possible, when the spacer plate is under water?

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
Loc: Δx = ħ/(2•Δp)
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: monoculture]
    #19490048 - 01/29/14 06:51 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

They were pp5. I also used the pressure cooker exactly like the first time. If it was the steam temperature being too high, then why did only the ones on the bottom and touching the sides melt?

The ones stacked on top were totally fine and I just finished noc'in em' up.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Edited by SynapseLotus (01/29/14 06:52 AM)

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
Loc: Δx = ħ/(2•Δp)
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19490055 - 01/29/14 06:54 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Water was raised till right above the plate before PC'ing. As steam evaporated off, the gladware was touching it, though I never expected this to happen. I already re-wrapped the inside of the damn PC (AA 915) with aluminum foil as it was the first time.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
Loc: Δx = ħ/(2•Δp)
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19490066 - 01/29/14 06:58 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Luckily I got to them just in time and was able to peel them off the bottom plate without damaging anything.

The ones that melted were a combination of Gladware rounds (same as in your photo above) and some other containers that were also PP5 (of course I checked this before buying them).


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Edited by SynapseLotus (01/30/14 10:52 AM)

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19490068 - 01/29/14 07:00 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

RR: Check my IP address again and you will see I'm in "Argentina" today. Haha. Still no where near my real location.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemagickspore
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19490836 - 01/29/14 10:58 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Well then you did something else wrong. I do a bunch of the glad mini rounds every few days and all I do is wrap the lid, a layer of jar bands, metal spacer plate, inch of water, PC at 10psi for 35-40min. NEVER have a problem. And I'm not the only one hundreds of us do this almost everyday and have never had problems. It has to be human error (usually is).

This is only what I do for best results PC at 15psi 30-45 min.

Edited by magickspore (01/30/14 05:14 PM)

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Invisibleblindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: magickspore]
    #19491562 - 01/29/14 02:05 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

yea i raise my grate up with 3 glass 1/2 pint jars.  magic, are u just doing agar at 10psi?


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
Loc: Δx = ħ/(2•Δp)
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19493364 - 01/29/14 07:40 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Well the first difference is that I'm PC'ing at 15 psi, not 10.
I thought anything under 121 degrees (boiling point at 15psi) doesn't kill everything. Any reason you are using 10 psi?

The first time I did it I also had a layer of foil raising the bottom plate off the bottom about a half inch. The second time (the time that melted) I didn't have that but the temperature was the same.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Edited by SynapseLotus (01/29/14 07:41 PM)

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19494992 - 01/30/14 04:43 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

weird.  stick with 15psi for grains.  10psi..dunno..probably for agar or LC's but with those, i still use 15psi, just less time. 
anyway, just got home from work, and before work i did a round of 4 pp5's (twist lock, blue lid) in the PC for 40 minutes at 15psi, turned off, heat, let cool to 0 then left apt.  came back and all is well, no melting or anything.  i have a gas stove, and thats why i raise the plate with three 1/2 pints (dunno if anything bad would happen if i didn't, just never tried) and they were not covered in foil, just unscrewed a LITTLE bit.

if ur using those take out containers, wrap in foil, or (what i would do) switch to store bought containers.  they last way longer, less waste going to landfill, less worry about if it worked or not, and less hassle when they stall (how do u "lightly" unscrew a snap lid if growth stall with grains inside it to allow for more GE?).  sry if u already using store bough pp5's/gladware.  i only saw pics of the melted ones.
good luck!


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19495047 - 01/30/14 05:16 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

All my containers were PP5. The "takeout" containers you referred to are also PP5, just a different brand than ziplock or gladware. All the ones on the bottom melted, regardless of the brand.

I suggest you continue using a larger spacer from the bottom as you have been. If you put only the spacer plate between them, then run it for as long as I did (60 minutes), perhaps the result would be the same as mine were.

Well, I have learned a few important lessons.

1. Microwave safe, doesn't mean 'metal to plastic contact in a PC' safe.
2. Even the experts sometimes give bad information.

Thanks for all the help guys. I hope this assists other plastic tek users in the future.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Edited by SynapseLotus (01/30/14 05:18 AM)

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Offlinespacechildo
proletarians rise up
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Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19495055 - 01/30/14 05:19 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

not all cookers go to 15 psi, mine goes to 10 and I add 30-45 mins cooking time to make up for it.

It can be done with grains without a pressure cooker as well, but you'll have to add 6hrs 30mins to the original 90mins.

OP/jar melter: find something else to put in the bottom of your pc.
I've used curled up balls of alu foil with great success,
and I've had (what felt like) near death experience with towels and cloths on the bottom.

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
Posts: 130
Loc: Δx = ħ/(2•Δp)
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: spacechildo]
    #19495083 - 01/30/14 05:33 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Towels and clothes are very un-recommended by roadkill. I used balled-up aluminum foil the first time to raise it up a bit and that seemed to work fine. It only melted after I took all that stuff out.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinespacechildo
proletarians rise up
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19495097 - 01/30/14 05:39 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

then just keep using them alu balls until you get a rack of some sort. if you want the rack. :shrug:

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: spacechildo]
    #19495251 - 01/30/14 07:01 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

1. Microwave safe, doesn't mean 'metal to plastic contact in a PC' safe.
2. Even the experts sometimes give bad information.




FACT: Steam at 121C isn't hot enough to melt pp5 containers.  Either you bought falsely labeled shit or you're doing something else stupid.  Don't blame  experienced growers who have never melted plastic in their sterilizers for your fuckups.

I've posted over and over and over again that you can't have plastic touching the sides of a pressure cooker IF you're using a gas stove.  The reason is that the flame curls around and up the sides.  This raises the temperature on the sides of the PC during the warm-up period to well above the temperature it will be after steam is produced.  This doesn't happen with electric stoves, only gas. 

The idea that aluminum foil, one of the most heat conductive materials in the world would suddenly become an 'insulator' simply because some idiot wrote a 'tek' and called it such is just dumb.  It's even dumber to blame others for your mistake because you think aluminum is an insulator.

However, I'm certain no more than 2 weeks will pass before someone else will melt their shit trying to follow a stupid 'tek' and blame others yet again.  Use glass jars and proper filters to allow for shaking with grains.

I'm seriously thinking of censoring all these stupid teks noobs write by pulling an idea out of their ass and then pretending like it's proved method.  All they do is screw up other noobs who follow that instead of something which actually works.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinespacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19495267 - 01/30/14 07:10 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Does this mean the rolled up alu foil balls does NOT work to keep your jars off the bottom of the PC?

Maybe I was just lucky while using it before I got my rack?

It's just confusing because he said he wrapped the inside of his pc with alu-foil which makes no sense.
Not sure if you (RR) are referring to my advice of using balls on the bottom or his attempt to "insulate" his PC...

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OfflineSynapseLotus


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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: spacechildo]
    #19495745 - 01/30/14 10:19 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

RR, again.. I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO JARS UNLESS I PAY A SHITLOAD OF MONEY TO IMPORT THEM.

Quote:

FACT: Steam at 121C isn't hot enough to melt pp5 containers


  NO ONE ever said it was the steam that melted it. Please read before jumping on someone's back. I have said over and over again it was THE ONES IN THE BOTTOM OF THE PC. If it were the steam then ALL of them would obviously have melted.

1st try: no melt
second try: (after removing the foil) MELT.
Explain the lack of logic behind that conclusion. I just PC'ed another load now IN THE SAME WAY AS THE PREVIOUS 2, only this time with the foil again, and there was no melting at all.

Aluminum is a good conductor, but it is crinkled and thus reduces the direct conductivity of heat from the sides (as you yourself said is hotter due to the flame) and lowers it just enough to match a temperature near the steam in the PC. I used to build custom water cooled computers and there is a reason we use a thermal paste between the CPU and the water block, so that there is direct connection between the two and thus better transfer of heat. Any minuscule gap between two mediums will reduce the transfer. Removing the plastic from the plate right above the direct flame at the bottom also has an obvious effect of reducing the heat into the plastic. 

Again, I'm not in the location my IP shows, so don't start yelling that it's "so easy to find wide mouth jars."

People may not be as idiotic as you first assume.


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Edited by SynapseLotus (01/30/14 10:32 AM)

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OfflineSynapseLotus


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Posts: 130
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19495781 - 01/30/14 10:27 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I am not "insulating" my PC or putting on a tin hat. I am simply creating a small spacer between the super-heat-transferring solid aluminum body of the PC and the PP5 containers.

RR: You yourself said not to put the glass right near the bottom of the PC as it can overheat the verm and cause problems. Why is this overheating concept suddenly so illogical just because I am using plastic?


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Edited by SynapseLotus (01/30/14 10:50 AM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19495796 - 01/30/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

:facepalm:

So you are using a gas stove. 

It's best not to expect one to type the same answer over and over again so you don't need to spend a few minutes with the search engine.  I've made it clear that when using a gas stove, you either have to keep the flame lower or prevent any plastic from touching the sides due to the flame curling around the edges.

One of these links is from 2006, and one from last December, supposedly in the thread you're following. There's at least 100 more times I typed the same thing in between those two. It's best not to blame those here to help because you failed to notice or make use of the search engine.  Good luck now that you have it sorted out. :thumbup:

I'd still get jars.  I've traveled the world and have never found a country where grandmas don't can fruits and berries.
RR

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6017168#6017168

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19249051#19249051


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineIcyus
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Re: URGENT: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: SynapseLotus]
    #19495797 - 01/30/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

9


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.

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OfflineSynapseLotus


Registered: 01/18/14
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Re: URGENT: Plastic Tek Without Aluminum Foil?? [Re: Icyus]
    #19495860 - 01/30/14 10:49 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge.Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm.Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear.Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs.Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque.Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm.Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real.Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul.Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming.Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be.Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger.




I enjoyed reading your post more than RR's.

There are so many things to read that once we get one answer, we will stick to it until we know otherwise. I read a guide about the precise practice of PC'ing and followed it to a T. Now, if I had known that there was such a difference in using a gas or electric stove, I would have LOOKED IT UP.

We are not robots RR. I think a month and a half researching before beginning was sufficient. I read enough about the plastic to know that tin foil on the inside of the PC is a good thing, until you so nicely turned me off of the idea and gave me a cooker full of melted plastic.

Please get off the "I can buy wide mouths here". I have lived here 5 years and never seen a damn one! I can only import them, but $60 for 12 isn't a bargain. Perhaps you would like to donate some?


--------------------
See my shadow changing, Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor, hoping I can clear the way.
By stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow, 46 and 2 are just ahead of me.

Spongiform's Plastic Tek
My gift to the Shroomery
Stan Getz/Bill Evans Masterpiece
The most important video of this generation
NO CUT, PERFECT MONOTUB HOLES!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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