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 theMallacht Clandestine Hero   Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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Wow, the same exact pictures of the same exact yellow looking Pereskiopsis. I'm impressed, extremely impressed. You are so amazing Anne Halonium, I can't even begin to put words to it. Pereskiopsis grows like a weed, but you are the BEST at growing that weed.
And, I wasn't guessing. Like I said, I have that exact same floodlamp as my back porch light and it is super hot. Also it says right on there that it puts out 1400 lumens. The sun puts out 5000 lumens (per square inch), one single T5 florescent puts out an initial lumens of 2000, and HID lighting puts out around 140,000 initial lumens. So obviously that thing's got a lot of power, right?! Despite the fact that it's the lowest number in that whole group! Science, you gotta love the way you can just read stuff, and then still say whatever you want about it. Because that's exactly how science works in the mind of Manne Halonium, since you aren't actually a girl at all. Nice seeing that same picture of the Pereskiopsis that are all wet Anne! Seen it like 20x now but it never gets old! Way to hide all of that yellowing with a little water! Innovation at it's best! 
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 anne halonium jaguarette   Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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note the lights mallacht.
no cam is gonna pick up accurate color with that type of lighting. once again your ignorance of both LED and digital CCD technology shows. note this pic. it was taken under lights you understand.  one indoors , LED , one outdoors , natural sun. both same color of green. how ironic. you really look poorly informed on this topic mallacht. quit boring the readers with your conjecture in an attempt to defame . -------------------- 
Edited by anne halonium (01/31/14 05:23 PM)
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karode13 Tāne Mahuta    Registered: 05/19/05 Posts: 15,290 Loc: LV-426 |
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Hey Anne and Mallacht. How come this thread turned into your personal bitch fest? Can't you guys read the thread title?(Don't answer these questions as I'm being sarcastic)
Here it is in case you've forgotten: LED bulbs - most powerful ? Now unless you both want a lengthy break from here I will urge you to cease the bickering and keep on topic. This forum has had enough of the childish bullshit and quite frankly so have I. --------------------   
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anne halonium jaguarette Registered: 05/07/13 Posts: 1,908 |
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i specicically use those lights and others like them.
everything i offer in this thread is on topic. unless someone has more, im pry the most published with LED and cactus of all types. those that have issues with me and zero actual experinnce on the topic, i cannot be responsible for that. --------------------
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intelligentlife Noaidi  Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 6 months |
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What comes to lumen.. Yes LED is more powerful, but what comes to money you can see how much expensive LED will be at first when grow room are build.
I see they are effective for cannabis cultivation, maybe yes to cactus plants but with narrow amount of species. Anyway, there is no IMO any good artificial lights for cactus plant(all species) I find this table from one site(there are lots of sites around LED vs cfl) LED CFL Lumen(approx) 4-5W 9-13W 450 6-8W 13-15W 800 9-13W 15-18W 1100 16-20W 23-30W 1600 25-28W 30-55W 2600 So what comes to price you need to invest to have powerful LED compared to CFL.. It's very easy to see LED will generate lots of more lumen but enough lumen for cacti (should be 50-100K or more for columnars) ...There will be long time you need to use LED before they pay back themselves trough electric bill. Anyway, cheapest and proven good with lots of another plants than cacti are actually simple fluoro tubes or cfl.. And I can say cheap bad quality LED can actually give same amount of lumen to good quality cfl but also there is need to remind, bad quality cfl doesn't always give the lumen output there is written to package of light bulb. I can't say any prices directly but let's say if you invest 80€ of money to fluoro tubes or cfl bulbs and compare the lumen to 80€ worth of LED, there is huge difference about. One thing I want to say more important is actually the quality of light bulb(LED or CFL) than actual tech of the lights.. Cheap shit quality LED or CFL wont always give as much output of light compared to expensive bulbs, it's a fact everyone know.. There are in the market some big 200-250W cfl bulbs, cheapest can be very poor and worth of only 150-180W of light compared to high quality cfl bulbs. Same thing is with LED, it depends on components of light. I don't want to argue about what is best and what is not, depends from perspective. Positive things from LED: -Long life -More lumen compared to cfl(small bulbs) -Less heat -Tolerate humidity -Only 10-20% of heat compared to CFL Positive things from CFL: -Cheaper (only 5-20% price compared to LED) -More lumen to your money -Can be obtained easily and build cheap light batteries -Not so picky light spectrum -Big bulbs have 2x more lumen per wattage compared to LED. Negative things from both: -LED is expensive -Both tech are mostly diffused light -CFL have less life time -CFL can suffer with on/off use(shortens the life of bulb) -Some CFL are sensitive to cold temperature and humidity -LED light have too picky spectrum of light for cactus (appearance suffer) -LED and CFL is just not generating enough lumen to most cactus -CFL have mercury -Bad quality lights doesn't give so much lumen nor wattage they should. Also one interesting table I find from online light store, I pick only tech good for plants: Lumens per Wattage, Maximum what can be achieved approx: -LED ~40LPW -CFL ~60LPW -HPS up to ~150LPW -Fluorescent: ~35LPW These are not my own information, I have used google and investigate online light shops and products. Basically CFL, Fluoro and HID tech are good when you want max output of lumens per wattage from one bulb.. Bigger the bulb is, more lumen per one watt of power you can achieve to get out from light. For example 15W CFL doesn't give so much LPW when you compare it to 300W CFL bulb, also 20x15W bulbs doesn't generate so much LPW compared to one big 300W CFL. Same thing is with Fluorescent tubes and HPS lights. Best LPW output from HPS can be achieved with 600W bulb, bigger or smaller than 600W HPS doesn't have so good LPW. This thing is actually not negative but not positive also with LED.. High power LED panels are just panels with lots of small light generating bulbs where one bulb LPW are poor.. There are not yet very big single LED light bulbs what could probably increase the max LPW of LED lights. If lumen is the thing we are looking for, and rule out the HPS, best amount of lumen and good light spectrum for your money you can achieve from one CFL light bulb power of ~150-300W, these size CFL will have more LPW than any LED and they are cheaper wattages to buy. One good side about LED from this is when light goes smaller with power the actual LPW doesn't drop.. Other techs for example HPS, less wattage, less lumen per one watt. Smaller CFL bulbs(below 100W) have actually smaller LPW but when you are going to bulbs size of 200-300W, then here is more lumen per wattage compared to LED but minus side of this is, they generate heat, need bigger space and their life is 20% of LED light life. Still yet LPW isn't change much with LED because they are build from very small bulbs and therefor bigger LED panel isn't just generate more lumen per watt than smaller panel do. It's good and bad thing, depends how you want to look it. So, if you really look powerful CFL, they will beat LED with lumen but bulb need to be big.. Lots of small CFL bulbs have indeed less HPW than same LED light, but LED have less LPW if actual CFL bulb is big enough.. These big 200-300W bulbs can be usually buy'd from gardening online stores like LED lights also.. I am actually waiting the day LED prices drop and one LED "bulb" in whole panel are big enough to generate more lumen per wattage than any CFL bulb.. what comes to HPS vs. LED... there are no way same money and wattage amount of both can even be compared to another with their LPW output. One 600W HPS generates 90K lumen and 600W82x300W) LED are just below 20K lumen. And price are insane with LED today. LED are good extra light for big light setups but they are not best choice yet and LED tech will develop and modern day LED lights are garbage after few years anyway. So the actual topic and simple answer for it based to lumen per wattage where I find out two answers. Yes LED is best if you can't use big enough CFL bulb(s) If we look how much lumen you can get per one wattage of light bigger the CFL goes more LPW one bulb generate.. NO LED is not best if you can use 200-300W CFL bulb(s) two would be perfect to get warm and cool color temperature (light spectrum from 2700-6500K) but there are actually "double spectrum" light bulbs possible to buy from most online shops where are sold light and gardening stuff. I don't want to show and compare things with pics, I know fertilizers for plants and soil or water effects also the appearance of plant so it's not so simple to look.. So if we just focus only to basic simple thing about this question: How much LPW is possible to achieve? There is final compare from me: 300W CFL (One bulb) Lumen output approx 24-25,000 Lumen. (~80-83LPW) 300W LED (One panel) Lumen output approx 10-11,000 Lumen. (~33-36LPW) Small compare below also about LPW with HPS bulbs so you can see how much HPS and also CFL tech have big lumen output if light bulb size is bigger.. There are somewhere "line" how big CFL bulbs you need to get more LPW than any LED panel can do. 250W HPS Lumen output are approx ~29,000Lumen 150W HPS Lumen output are only ~15,000Lumen HPS light bulb lumen output can be increased with digital power supply and for example 250W bulb can be run with 400W power source and bulb are way more bright. Still I don't suggest to add big power source to small wattage bulb, they can explode.. Digital power sources are for that purpose to get "every lumen out" from bulb. So with big bulbs or panels, CFL beat LED what comes to the fact how much lumen per wattage you can get out from your lights.. Different thing is technique of lights and ofc CFL will generate heat more and need different care than LED.. With small bulbs, LED are way more better but when you use bigger bulbs then go with CFL, maybe best cfl for cacti are these one big bulbs what have 2700K and 6500K spectrums in one bulb. I think it's 250-300W size CFL in the market what have both spectrums of light to grow plants. Anyway, there is some text and "fact" from light vendors online. I don't have any personal opinion in the text, most of all I have just written after exploring the lights and it seems no LED can't beat(yet) big CFL bulbs what comes to lumen output per wattage. So.. There are no single truth what is best. IF your growing conditions allow you to use big 300W CFL bulb, then you can have 2x more lumens compared to 300W LED panel. And with cacti, better would be if actually CFL bulb is the one with both "grow" and "bloom" spectrum of light from same bulb. Things is no so black and white, I'm just waiting LED to go cheaper and wait LED tech to develop more to increase the LPW of panels. Until then I grow cannabis, chili and cactus seedlings with cheap CFL:s cause they have only ~30-40% less lumen per wattage comapared to LED and I need these only for time to grow seedlings and when I move plants to greenhouse.. Lights isn't necessary at all in my garden. --------------------    
Edited by intelligentlife (02/01/14 03:57 AM)
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islanduniverse  Registered: 02/26/10 Posts: 1,963 Last seen: 2 months, 10 days |
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i rephrased title, sorry i didn't make more clear earlier
so basically i don't see any point in buying an expensive LED light like above at this time
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intelligentlife Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 6 months |
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Quote: There is good reason to buy LED if you have high power CFL in use at the moment, LED light can be add to CFL light environment and do combination lighting.. This kind of lighting for grow rooms are usually seen around cannabis growers. They use LED light as main light and add some CFL bulbs to branches below the plant.. You can add more power and lumen to your grow area if you add LED with CFL, but LED alone isn't the best way to get best amount of lumens. If you don't care CFL have shorter life time, they generate some heat and so on, then high power CFL are the choice for you but adding some LED with high power CFL are always good extra lumen to your light environment and you have more lumen with less heat. I have actually seen lots of LED cannabis grow rooms or tents but the fact is everyone seems to use CFL+LED lighting.. Only reason why this is done are simple: Some have grow room for cannabis where HPS generate too much heat so using big wattage CFL:s with LED will generage nice amount of lumen with less heat. Also reddish LED light are good for growing cannabis flower. What comes to cacti, depends on species about but if you have already CFL, there is no harm done to add some LED light with CFL. Extra LED doesn't give so much heat compared to extra CFL if heat is problem.. If CFL heat isn't problem, combined 2700K and 6400K CFL bulbs are good choice to light your cactus collection. Actually best results you can have with trichs to use every possible spectrum there is available but "warm color light" cause cactus to grow more height and less thickness. This trich I got from my friend have been grown under 600W HPS (very low Kelvin) and you can see how this bridgesiinoid(or whatever) have been grown mostly height even light have been very strong. Another thing what have been caused the slim growth are probably light cycle of 12/12 because this cutting have been at cannabis grow room where plants flowering. But epidermis seems to be good, I have used this cutting as graft stock for some peyote and crested cactus and it's good as grafting stock.  I know short day length and low color temperature of light cause the stretching of trichs, cutting in the picture have been under 600W HPS at 12/12 light cycle in my friend cannabis grow room. Different and more fat trichs I have seen when they are grown with large spectrum of light and long day lenght (16-20hours) ..for some reason, 600W HPS and 12/12 light cycle cause trich to grow slim. Other factors(ferts, soil, care) I don't know about why cactus have been grown like this but it depends also from another factors than light what kind of growth you can achieve but 12/12hour light and yellow-red color of light doesn't benefit trichs to grow fat. Anyway, same grow room few another trichs will grow more fat so I think there is always genetics of plant involved, bridgesii are usually slim, some of them are very slim even they grow under strong outdoor sun.. Compared to some peruvian torch or san pedro, bridgesii have typically less diameter anyway. At another hand I have seen less power HPS and under it trichs grow 2x thickness compared to cutting at picture.. So if you don't know much about cacti, there are no matter what kind of light you use. As you can see from picture, growth like that isn't simple matter of light because elsewhere and another grower achieve trichs to grow more fat with less amount of light. Light are just one factor to grow cacti, another factors are pot size, fertilizers, soil etc.. Edited by intelligentlife (02/01/14 04:28 AM)
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FunnyLight Nom NOm NOM  Registered: 09/12/11 Posts: 1,124 Loc: fuckin Mars man Last seen: 1 year, 10 months |
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There's a lot that's been said here, and I agree with what Intelligentlife was saying. Anne may have valuable information but an extensive explanation of his setup hasn't been explained. I've some extensive experience with high power LED systems. What I don't have is nailing That perfect spectrum for a singular LED light for plant growth. Of course, it's a project on the back burner so not much focus have been put into it.
I did a grow using the CREE XR-E series high power LEDs. These are "binned" i.e. cherry picked and with the premium LED's you can get over 100 lumens per LED @ 1/3rd the total output power. Now when you push them to their highest output power the efficiency starts to drop, so don't take that are you'll end up with 300 lumens from one chip. It's just not ganna work that way. I used Royal Blue, White and Red. I had these at ~140W over some pedro and bell peppers for shits and giggles (also, a poppy pod or two but a mouse at them, then died, cuz he hadzz da morfines). I kept the lights close to the cacti, and my experiences where elongation of the san pedro. The light above the bell peppers where father away (18-24") and the leaves severely wrinkled in some weird ass way that i'd never seen before. The thing about LED's is they can be thought of like lasers in terms of light spectrum when comparing with a CFL, HPS or MH. They produce a very specific band of light that is generally very narrow. Now how our eyes perceive them is different then what they're actually doing. Here's a good general example of the actual light power Vs temperature.  The top chart shows Generally the spectrum output of certain temperature ranges. The bottom chart shows what those specific, Royal Blue, Blue, and Green, LEDs output. You'll notice they're very sharp curves compared to the top graph. This means they produce power at very specific wavelengths. chlorophyll absorbs the majority of it's light in this range:  There's a bit of a mis-match there. So it may not matter how much power you throw at your plants with LED's. If it's not in the correct spectrum it won't do shit besides burn the piss out of the plant from too intense light at the wrong spectrum. Through my travels I found a fellow over in the RollItUp forums, stardustsailor in the "LED and other lighting" section who has done a LOT of work in this arena. He's much farther along then I was when I tried my experiments. He's played with spectra for quite a bit and found good results. Infrared (IR) is important. It causes heat on the surface of the leaves. Leading to evaporation through the surface of the leaf, causing water to be pulled up the plant to the top of the canopy. Plain heat all around the grow room doesn't necessarily do this. I believe this was a big factor in my failed grow and the wrinkling of leaves,and the cactus elongation. Trying to reach for the sun because it wasn't getting proper "circulation". So yes, there are not perfect LEDs on the market yet. Kessil seems to have a nice product. But they are extremely expensive. And honestly, Homebrewing this shit is not incredibly difficult. Tl;Dr Do a mixture of CFL's, HPS/MH and LEDs to maximize the canopy spectrum exposure. Also keep in mind that Lumuns and Lux are different measurements, and color temperature and spectrum are also different measurements. -------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill. J. Bronowski Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori". Thanks Lemmingp for that.  
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psi TOAST N' JAM  Registered: 09/05/99 Posts: 31,569 Loc: 613 
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Interesting post, I have yet to try LED for growing but building a fixture from scratch sounds fun.
To extend what you're saying about color spectra and that, it's good to keep in mind that lumens are weighted by apparent brightness to the human eye, which is pretty counterproductive for growing purposes (since e.g. green appears disproportionately bright to our eyes and thus receives extra weight.) Lux is defined in terms of lumens per square meter, so the same weighting problems are present. PAR measurements are weighted based on photosynthetic utility, but most of the time manufacturers don't provide those readings. It is possible to get PAR meters though I believe.
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FunnyLight Nom NOm NOM Registered: 09/12/11 Posts: 1,124 Loc: fuckin Mars man Last seen: 1 year, 10 months |
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As yes, PAR! That's the important one!
I knew that whole lumen/lux thing wasn't on point, but couldn't think of what exactly it was. Just in the back of my mind as being off. <SNIP> Oh total tangent to the thread but I've built a couple 900 lumen flashlights using their parts for about $12 (little more if you get the battery and charger). The batteries are NOTORIOUS for being counterfeit. Spend the money, get the Panasonic high capacity one, or a highly customer rated one. Even with the 900 lumen flashlight my dad thought it broke because it quit working. After 3 months of 3-5 times a week use he finally had to recharge the battery. The Heatsink is the most expensive part next to the emitters. If you go active cooling and get a couple small fans you can cut that cost down a lot. It's a fun thing to have around. I've got some kick ass bike lights too. I've gone as far as Public Labs homebrew spectrometer kit. Got that up and running but haven't done any sort of spectrum comparisons. Mainly because I haven't had the need or desire to grow anything and god knows I've got enough projects running currently. It is something that I would like to dive into more though. It's a hot topic and many LED vendors are pushing to get LEDs produced in more appropriate spectrums. Mod edit : Please read the EG rules Quote: Edited by Mostly_Harmless (02/04/14 12:27 AM)
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ledgrower Stranger  Registered: 02/12/13 Posts: 275 |
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 That image looks like it was done under very weak leds. Very weak leds. I'd say 1w bulbs or less. A 90 watt ufo puts off plants that are weak. Once you start getting higher watt per bulb you notice plants go from being like a cfl plant (weak feeling leaves is the best way I can describe it) to more like an hps plant (stronger/thicker feeling bigger leaves and faster/larger growth). I have a cacti under leds right now and it's growth is getting fatter and fatter near the tops. It's actually a very healthy plant. Do not buy 1w per bulb 90 watt leds. Buy the 3 watt+ per bulb higher wattage lights. These are what you want. I've grown witha few types and would only get those results under the weaker leds. I can get a better pic of it later.  before going under leds this was a small single little moon like lump. -------------------- If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220. Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights. 
Edited by ledgrower (02/04/14 04:15 AM)
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intelligentlife Noaidi Registered: 10/18/10 Posts: 2,627 Loc: EU Last seen: 7 years, 6 months |
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I'm not sure do I forgot to say pic is just taken from internet by google. I could not find proper and fat trichs grown by LED. It's not my pic but what I find out from google and this pic, it's under 125W LED.. I don't know more accurate.. I just tried to find cactus plants under LED.. Not much of pics found trough google. I don't even know the grower who have grow that trich.
Anyway, I know about lumen/lux is different. Lumen is measurement what human eye see.. Sun light are usually said lux per square meter/feet. I still don't know why almost any light vendor market their lights and add only LPW to box. I know it's tell much how plant "see the light" but it tells only how powerful it's to human eye. I have write about that long time ago in this forum about Lumen and it isn't the measurement to say how much of light is useful for plants. But after all, every light is combination of Kelvin, Lumen, Lux, etc.. Sun light is actually very "funny" in that sentence because human always see light as "white" but it's not. Our eye are very poor to detect any spectrums or if so, our eye try to fix the spectrum of day light and balance it to white. These kind of studies and documents can be find easily made by scientist or journalists researching the human eye. Also some documents say plants are different. Actually at morning sun light to earth is blue and evening it's yellow/red, human see this always as white. One thing why cannabis is grown under yellow/red spectrum HPS are simple, they imitate setting sun and everyone know low Kelvin are better to produce flowers than high.. Anyway, it's not all about Kelvin because low power and low Kelvin are worse than high power and high Kelvin. But what I tried to say there should be find some balance to lights. LED are so far developing tech, spectrum is very picky compared to few other light techs.. For example HPS and CFL have already light bulbs where you can have almost every spectrum possible from one light bulb.. Lumen isn't the one and only factor what is know long time ago, I just wanted to point one thing our compared to different lights. However, I have not tested lights in laboratory and so on but I have tested lots of different setups with different plants and cacti.. I have seen LED is not so perfect with cannabis(but good enough) I have also find out growing big columnars, LED consume tremendous amount of money to achieve everything, also LED lack some spectrum, even there have been studied plants "don't need" all spectrum of light still they benefit from many spectrum, also plants benefit from heat(if heat is not excessively hot) I am very interested of LED tech but problem is the price of light and because it's developing tech so far, I don't see reason to obtain any LED lights yet because in few years I'm sure there are more powerful LED and probably with wider spectrum range. LED is good light system to use, but when I look lots of industrial size growing no one use LED alone. HPS is cheap and what comes to harvest of plants, they cover up the electric bill more better compared to LED grow. But, there is still lots of benefits of LED, like life time, temperature are easy to control etc.. Still what comes to money and wide spectrum what every plant needs. I would use LED today only combined to another light tech to get extra power without too much extra heat. I am sure LED will be probably best lighting years later bu at the moment I have only seen they are good in cannabis cultivation if heat is problem. If there are no problem with heat what light bulbs generate, hardly no one who want big harvests(no matter of plant) use LED only today. Some use HPS and illuminate the lower branches with cheap CFL:s. Some use LED + HPS to get max harvest. I don't see cacti is so different they don't need as effective light as another plants. So if for example cannabis and chili produce best harvest with HPS or MH lights, and harvest and growth is always depends how effective lights are used, I see I can take compare from another plants and see what lights will benefit most and use same lights from cacti to get also cacti benefit the most of it. They are anyway at first place all plants from the wild and used sun as light source and what lights benefits best for example cannabis, I have seen also cacti benefit from it.. But cacti are more picky what comes to light spectrum. Today when LED are still developing, I see they are usable when they are combined to another light techs what comes to plant growing. All plants are anyway supposed to grow under the sun and what comes sun, sun spectrum will vary constantly when day goes on but humans doesn't see that with bare eye. There are good amount of documentary about human eye, plants and sun light and how human eye doesn't "see the same" what plants "see" or what spectrum and sun radiation plants use and what they doesn't.. Basically all spectrum are someway good for plants but green light is obviously non-effective because it reflects out from foliage and chlorophyll can't take advantage of it. Yet I have still seen flourishing plants under any kind of lights like sun, fluoro tubes, cfl, led, hps, mh or any combination of these. In order to get to know what really is the best choice there should be build several different light environments, add plants under these conditions and see later on what is the result. Yet what I have read from cannabis growers, many people have buy LED and disappointed to harvest of bud and later on they trying to change their expensive LED panel or ufo back to HPS lights because they're not effective enough to produce same amount of bud. If things are different, I would have seen more trade from HPS to LED instead of more people want to change(in trade) their LED lights to HPS because harvests are more less. When I see LED growers can produce same or bigger amount of cannabis bud what HPS lights will, then I'm sure maybe LED would be powerful enough to any plant. I know there are no good reason to mix cannabis to cacti but what I have seen how columnar grow under "marijuana grow lights" when day length is 16-18hours and light spectrum are different to cannabis grow. There is potential in LED tech ...but what I see what is very big problem is lots of people in private markets who have change HPS to LED and later on they want to get rid of LED and take HPS again to use because harvest isn't good enough.. Only reason why people have kept their LED or LED+CFL to grow cannabis are just one = HPS generate too much heat. Also LED and CFL harvests isn't actually bad but I have read lots of disappoint growers who have used lots of money to LED and find out later the cannabis amount is noticeable smaller compared to their HPS system and lots of growers who doesn't have heat issues have change back to HPS. I don't see cacti is from different planet where cannabis grow and when LED system produce almost same amount of cannabis compared t HPS, then I'm sure they would be very effective to grow cacti. I have still seen grow rooms where good amount of cannabis are produce, also big columnar cacti like these conditions but just little bit different spectrum of light.. Anyway HPS and MH are same tech basically, just different stuff inside the bulb. Also some modern HPS bulbs are "white light" and they're good for cacti. I can't anyway say what really is the best light but I can just say some what I have heard from another growers and what I have seen and I believe the light system what produce good amount of cannabis, they are the good choice for columnar cacti also. If we rule out the soil conditions and other factors then we can compare the lights.. If plant have bad soil, there are no matter what light setup plant have because other factor(like bad soil) limit the plant growth anyway. What I can say more about is: Just go with the lights what is good for your wallet and grow room. For cacti, if sun cannot be used at all I can't say what is best and what is worst, there are good and bad sides with every artificial light system but I don't see it's bad to use combination lights to get good effects from every light system. LED+CFL are in my mind best light setup if heat is problem. I have plan to buy LED light to power up my CFL to my dormant chili plants. I need to keep chili indoors over winter and in greenhouse at summer. Also I have think to obtain LED light for cannabis to boost up CFL also but problem is quite simple, I have better use for money to buy LED. In my country LED grow lights are too expensive yet. Cacti I have get out from artificial lights, all my cacti are at windowsill and over summer at greenhouse.. I have not seen reason to use artificial lights for bigger cacti. Only seedlings are under CFL at the moment and summer time I give sun for seedlings at windowsill. Other plants but no cacti have artificial light in my garden at the moment. I find out cacti doesn't need artificial light if nature offer sun light. And greenhouse isn't so hard to build to use at summer. Also greenhouse thermostat heating(spring and fall) over night is more cheaper compared to any indoor light setup what comes to electrical bill. There are probably as much opinions of lights as there are growers. --------------------
Edited by intelligentlife (02/04/14 09:54 AM)
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FunnyLight Nom NOm NOM Registered: 09/12/11 Posts: 1,124 Loc: fuckin Mars man Last seen: 1 year, 10 months |
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dude.... seriously
TL;DR got a summary? 
-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill. J. Bronowski Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori". Thanks Lemmingp for that.
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theMallacht Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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Quote: Here is your summary, I have added my own comments as well. I would get used to reading posts like this though man, this is after all an intellectual-based forum in relation to horticulture, plant physiology, etc. Plus intelligentlife's posts are always like that...  @intelligentlife:   Quote: This is because they do not exist. Quote: It is decent for vegetative cycle but I don't know ANY grower (and I know many) that is using LEDs for bloom and is even slightly satisfied with their grow. It is not even significant compared to HPS. Quote: Quote: This is an excellent point, when LEDs can produce the same amount of actual dry weight (or anywhere close) as HPS then they will be usable. Until then, they're  Quote: --------------------
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ledgrower Stranger Registered: 02/12/13 Posts: 275 |
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I don't think malla or intelli have either used leds.
Quote: Well prove they don't when you use good light and good everything. I don't want any opinion, I want picture from your experience. Not only one shitty weak led experience either, I've meed with those, a variety. Led may not penetrate, keep the canopy even where you can minimize that negative effect. What I got from my led compared to hp were very comparable. Until you have actual exp with both light behind you (and good led not shitty biased view on top of a shitty light). Like a blind penis in space just thrusting infinite opinion/answer that do not have knowledge from experience behind them. Quote:Quote:  led grown cacti Guarantee this will be fatter than that hps cacti (that thing looked shitty, skinny, and weak especially spine wise which does say something about the light it was getting. This thing only had I'd say 6 months of light from being the size of my thumb, and the new normal growth tip are coming out nicely. Even though they can't penetrate the part of the plant that get direct lighting from them seem to be way better than hps, I won't ever use hp again, led only, I've seen what 250-400w hps put out and its not very impressive at all. I don't need to try to validate anything by using scientific bullshit I know nothing about. I've seen the plant reaction to led and to hps, and the reaction to very good led is similar to hps. The thick leaf growth and strong plant, that is in led too, if not moreso than hp.  that leaf when it rubs together it has a crunchy sound to it. and its rough and its thick. Thats the growth I'm talking about. That's a buku leaf. I'm also noticing this growth is more common/occurring during flowering spectrum lights no matter the growth stage. (Hps/red leds) -------------------- If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220. Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights.
Edited by ledgrower (02/04/14 02:08 PM)
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theMallacht Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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I'm not saying that LED lights won't get there, they just aren't there yet. And for any Cannabis grower that is complaining about electrical costs, you're obviously not doing it right. A buddy and I figured out that if you actually lay out the numbers, one can EASILY make 4x the initial investment cost including electrical costs on a 2-4 1000W HPS grow. I just don't see why anyone would go with LEDs when growers have been getting huge yields for decades off of HPS, and the electrical bill comes no where close to the possible profit. At wholesale costs for one of my grows I literally made 8x my total overhead cost for a 4 x 1000W HPS grow. So if you're whining about the cost of running lights, get out of the grow game. Plain and simple.
 
Edited by theMallacht (02/04/14 10:35 PM)
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ledgrower Stranger Registered: 02/12/13 Posts: 275 |
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Quote: I would have drawn that conclusion from my first experiment with leds also. When I only had seen what a 1w per bulb 90 watt ufo can do (which are very very shitty leds) kada should actually have some information on leds. However, once I seen Solid leds perform under an SoG environment, then compared that to what my sog with hps looked like. Never using hps again. I also didn't grow tall lanky ass plants where my lights couldn't penetrate them. Day 12 flowering : Buku female in back purple tops male in center  Belladonna (mid) Ptops females (Left) SAGE (far back) Boss Hogg (right)  Cali Con Boss Hogg Lanky amazonian in background  Were going to be bonsai mothers that are getting flowered this is a test grow here as I've already done sogs with about half of this amount of light. -------------------- If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220. Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights.
Edited by ledgrower (02/04/14 02:22 PM)
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theMallacht Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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 You can't really "bonsai" cannabis plants. If you're referring to removing the bottom growth so as to prohibit airy buds that don't get close enough to the light, even HPS growers do this very commonly and it's called lollipopping. I want to see some pics of some final buds, some week 7 or later buds. I know for a fact that aren't dense man. I'm not saying this because I don't absolutely know. I wouldn't say it unless I absolutely know. I don't need to use LED lights to know this because I've been working in the Hydroponic industry here in Cali for a long time and I've seen enough product that came straight out of LED grows that people just weren't happy with at all. Like I said, if power is a concern for you and you're growing cannabis, you just aren't doing it right. If LED has really come so far you'd see guys coming into Hydro stores and buying 20-100 light grows with LEDs. I've sold lots and lots of 20-100 light grows in my time working on the Hydro floor and never once has the grower even suggested the very idea of going with LED lights. This is because any experienced grower who is going to set up that kind of a big grow knows that would be a mistake. -------------------- Edited by theMallacht (02/04/14 02:23 PM)
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ledgrower Stranger Registered: 02/12/13 Posts: 275 |
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Quote: The one that should be facepalming is me here. The use of bonsai and the use of lollipopping are for two completely different goals you want. Lollipopping is removing all the bottom growth to go for one big cola. Good for clones that are already in sog. When you bonsai a mother (which is real and you may want to do some searching on the topic) you are making a mother that is going to take tons of cuts off her for sog. -------------------- If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220. Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights.
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theMallacht Clandestine Hero Registered: 04/25/09 Posts: 3,428 Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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No it is NOT to go with one big cola, lollipopping is to keep scraggly bottom growth from producing spindly, airy buds that don't get close to the light. You remove lower growth so it can't produce buds at all, diverting that same growth to the top buds which will in turn be more dense.
What does it matter if your mother is bonsai-ed or not to make clones for SOG? This is getting utterly stupid man. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I would give you my full credentials but you're probably just a narc troll anyway. PS - You're probably seeing similar yields w LED because you didn't know what the fuck you were doing when you were using HPS in the first place. "Oh wow, I got the same 1/2 oz per plant that I got with my HPS with these LEDs! They MUST be efficient!" I'm out, later n00b. -------------------- Edited by theMallacht (02/04/14 02:31 PM)
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