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Huminuh
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 16
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: vikingsc]
#19476068 - 01/26/14 10:24 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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SAB?
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,551
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Huminuh]
#19476078 - 01/26/14 10:28 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huminuh said: SAB?
Still air box
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Huminuh
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 16
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Huminuh]
#19476080 - 01/26/14 10:28 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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What is a SAB?
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Huminuh
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 16
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476083 - 01/26/14 10:29 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh ok thanks
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,551
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Huminuh]
#19476088 - 01/26/14 10:31 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, they're crazy easy to make. Just a sterilite tote and a couple arm holes. They're one of the most useful things ever in this hobby.
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476152 - 01/26/14 10:53 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said:
Quote:
Huminuh said: SAB?
Still air box
Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: Yeah, they're crazy easy to make. Just a sterilite tote and a couple arm holes. They're one of the most useful things ever in this hobby.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476281 - 01/26/14 11:28 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: I suppose, but what if it's just contamed. Don't jars without gas exchange at least show a little healthy growth before stalling? What if he finds a way to get that jar some ge and it just turns out to be bacteria anyways.
Correct. You don't need GE until you actually have some mycelium breathing in there. Even then the air that was still present will keep the culture going for a while before it stalls. This is actually the premise behind the unmodifyed lids used for v tek grows. OP has a nice case of bacteria, probably due to dirty inoculate (ms syringes are almost never clean) and the notorious endospore count that popcorn has. If OP lives at a high elevation I would think that he would need to up his PC times to at least 2 hours or more. I couldn't get popcorn to work for me with less than that.
OP you have now discoverd why popcorn is the least desirable spawn. Try rye or WBS next time, you will be glad you did.
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,551
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19476322 - 01/26/14 11:37 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: I suppose, but what if it's just contamed. Don't jars without gas exchange at least show a little healthy growth before stalling? What if he finds a way to get that jar some ge and it just turns out to be bacteria anyways.
Correct. You don't need GE until you actually have some mycelium breathing in there. Even then the air that was still present will keep the culture going for a while before it stalls. This is actually the premise behind the unmodifyed lids used for v tek grows. OP has a nice case of bacteria, probably due to dirty inoculate (ms syringes are almost never clean) and the notorious endospore count that popcorn has. If OP lives at a high elevation I would think that he would need to up his PC times to at least 2 hours or more. I couldn't get popcorn to work for me with less than that.
OP you have now discoverd why popcorn is the least desirable spawn. Try rye or WBS next time, you will be glad you did.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. But isn't it a myth that you need to pc longer at higher altitudes? Think about it, the weight of the rocker builds the pc up to a specific psi until the force of the steam is greater than the force of the rocker. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but I don't see where the air pressure would play into it.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476372 - 01/26/14 11:48 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Because water boils at a lower temp at high elevation then the temp increase that the pressuer provides will be limited to that differential. Or something to that effect. I just got up, might be able to articulate my thoughts better after a few more cups of coffeee. Regardless, the extremely large grain size of corn is enough for me to think that higher pc times might be a good idea for anyone who wants a low number of nock points on a grain with an extremely high endospore count. Popcorn is good at the movies, not for mycology.
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19476413 - 01/26/14 11:57 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: You don't need GE until you actually have some mycelium breathing in there. Even then the air that was still present will keep the culture going for a while before it stalls. This is actually the premise behind the unmodifyed lids used for v tek grows.
The v tek grows are also only 1/4 substrate and 3/4 airspace. That's why they can go without GE. A full jar of popcorn can't grow for long without GE.
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,551
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19476421 - 01/26/14 11:59 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Because water boils at a lower temp at high elevation then the temp increase that the pressuer provides will be limited to that differential. Or something to that effect. I just got up, might be able to articulate my thoughts better after a few more cups of coffeee. Regardless, the extremely large grain size of corn is enough for me to think that higher pc times might be a good idea for anyone who wants a low number of nock points on a grain with an extremely high endospore count. Popcorn is good at the movies, not for mycology.
But wouldn't the outside pressure not matter since the pc forms it's own pressure and will always get to 15 psi because the weight forms the pressure, not the outside air pressure. It would make sense if the walls of the pc were flexible like a balloon, but since they're rigid I suppose I don't understand how the outside pressure would affect the pressure inside the pc. But I agree, corn is too starchy and dirty for mycological purposes, and if it is to be used it should be pc'd for a long time.
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476432 - 01/26/14 12:01 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Because water boils at a lower temp at high elevation then the temp increase that the pressuer provides will be limited to that differential. Or something to that effect. I just got up, might be able to articulate my thoughts better after a few more cups of coffeee. Regardless, the extremely large grain size of corn is enough for me to think that higher pc times might be a good idea for anyone who wants a low number of nock points on a grain with an extremely high endospore count. Popcorn is good at the movies, not for mycology.
But wouldn't the outside pressure not matter since the pc forms it's own pressure and will always get to 15 psi because the weight forms the pressure, not the outside air pressure. It would make sense if the walls of the pc were flexible like a balloon, but since they're rigid I suppose I don't understand how the outside pressure would affect the pressure inside the pc. But I agree, corn is too starchy and dirty for mycological purposes, and if it is to be used it should be pc'd for a long time.
The psi will be the same. the temp will be slightly lower. It only adds up to a few more minutes of PC time.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: vikingsc]
#19476436 - 01/26/14 12:02 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Did the OP even have germination? Maybe I read his post wrong. Regardless, bacteria and molds are not caused by 0 GE, but they do thrive in it. Therefore the bacteria needed to be introduced at some vector and unless that is fixed OP will continue tp grow contams regardless of whether he has proper GE or not.
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,551
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: vikingsc]
#19476453 - 01/26/14 12:04 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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But if the water is boiling and the pressure is at 15 psi then the water temps must be 250 degrees? Sorry guys, I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just would like to understand so I can help people in the future if the question comes up.
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19476460 - 01/26/14 12:05 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Did the OP even have germination? Maybe I read his post wrong. Regardless, bacteria and molds are not caused by 0 GE, but they do thrive in it. Therefore the bacteria needed to be introduced at some vector and unless that is fixed OP will continue tp grow contams regardless of whether he has proper GE or not.
He had germination, but he had the common symptoms of lack of gas exchange. Weak clumpy myc.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19476476 - 01/26/14 12:08 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't care if it only adds up to a few min or not. If you don't reach sterilization temps, you don't have sterile media. You might get away with it using WBS or even rye but, with a gigantic crappy spawn like popcorn your looking at fail.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476494 - 01/26/14 12:12 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: But if the water is boiling and the pressure is at 15 psi then the water temps must be 250 degrees? Sorry guys, I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just would like to understand so I can help people in the future if the question comes up.
No it won't be because if the water is boiling at lets say 200 f instead of 212, then the pressure is not going to create as much heat, due to it being at a lower temp when it started to build up in the first place.
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476500 - 01/26/14 12:12 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: But if the water is boiling and the pressure is at 15 psi then the water temps must be 250 degrees? Sorry guys, I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just would like to understand so I can help people in the future if the question comes up.
http://www.hippressurecooking.com/pressure-cooking-times/ Not mycology related, but high altitude pc'ing related.
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,551
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: vikingsc]
#19476531 - 01/26/14 12:19 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: But if the water is boiling and the pressure is at 15 psi then the water temps must be 250 degrees? Sorry guys, I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just would like to understand so I can help people in the future if the question comes up.
No it won't be because if the water is boiling at lets say 200 f instead of 212, then the pressure is not going to create as much heat, due to it being at a lower temp when it started to build up in the first place.
Quote:
vikingsc said:
Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: But if the water is boiling and the pressure is at 15 psi then the water temps must be 250 degrees? Sorry guys, I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just would like to understand so I can help people in the future if the question comes up.
http://www.hippressurecooking.com/pressure-cooking-times/ Not mycology related, but high altitude pc'ing related.
Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for being patient with me!
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: HELP!!! Jars of corn not growing right/taking to long? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19476557 - 01/26/14 12:25 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Does your myc look anything like this? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19456750/page/1
This is what myc with zero gas exchange looks like. Weak, clumpy myc. A full jar of popcorn needs GE.
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