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GreySatyr
Pagan-Psyche


Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 3,376
Loc: North Carolina
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Crystal G]
#19466696 - 01/24/14 09:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's all about finding a way that makes sense to you and applying it. Also the physical limitations can easily be overcome, how many AMAZING guitarists were missing fingers? And what about the guy who got his arms blown off in Iraq and learned to play the guitar with his feet?
Yeah, I think it's all possible, I don't think it's just some miraculous given thing. I think it's desire, resourcefulness, ingenuity and ability to apply what's learned.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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robbyberto
Water Boy



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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station [Re: Deathcore]
#19466701 - 01/24/14 09:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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As others have said it was a stupid time and place to do this experiment. Should have done it on Friday evening on some hip street. I bet he would get a massive crowd in that kind of situation.
-------------------- “People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: GreySatyr]
#19466712 - 01/24/14 09:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
GreySatyr said: It's all about finding a way that makes sense to you and applying it. Also the physical limitations can easily be overcome, how many AMAZING guitarists were missing fingers? And what about the guy who got his arms blown off in Iraq and learned to play the guitar with his feet?
Yeah, I think it's all possible, I don't think it's just some miraculous given thing. I think it's desire, resourcefulness, ingenuity and ability to apply what's learned.
Of course it's possible for anybody to achieve, but the simple fact that it takes significantly longer for some people than for others, appears to indicate that some people are born with a particular skill for that thing.
Take perfect pitch for example. That is something that cannot be learned, that is something you are simply born with.
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GreySatyr
Pagan-Psyche


Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 3,376
Loc: North Carolina
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Crystal G]
#19466724 - 01/24/14 09:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lol, yes, on super rare occasions one is born with perfect pitch but even that is false, nothing is "perfect." Your instrument will never play in perfect pitch so who cares? You can also train your ear for that, I'm done with this debate.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: GreySatyr]
#19467354 - 01/24/14 12:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: Take perfect pitch for example. That is something that cannot be learned, that is something you are simply born with.
That's actually not true. It's been shown that children who are introduced to music before the age of two have something like a five times higher chance of developing perfect pitch. The brain does a ton of development in infancy when it is extremely elastic.
Quote:
GreySatyr said: Lol, yes, on super rare occasions one is born with perfect pitch but even that is false, nothing is "perfect." Your instrument will never play in perfect pitch so who cares? You can also train your ear for that, I'm done with this debate.
Now you're just being ridiculous. I have a friend who came 1st in Canada in the Gauss math contest in grade 9. He could derive late university level mathematical formula in high school, proofs I had difficulty understanding in university, and I'm pretty damn good at math.
Of course I can learn to be better with hard work but it's idiotic to imply that there is no such thing as a natural proclivity to something. No matter how hard I try I will never be able to jump as high as LeBron James. My joints simply can't take it. I've had surgery on both of my knees and one of my shoulders. I will never be a body builder. I simply don't have good joints.
Now can I learn to jump higher with hard work? Sure! Can I get stronger? Absolutely! But I will NEVER be the best. There is such a thing as innate talent. Although most people are capable of becoming very good at almost anything being the BEST usually takes some kind of natural skill.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,473
Loc: 613
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19467586 - 01/24/14 01:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I ranked pretty high in Ontario for the Atlantic-Pacific math contest when I was in grade 8. Probably a fluke though, I was good at math in high school but not amazing. I'm back in university now after about 10 years out and Calc is a real struggle so far.
I knew a guy like that in high school though, always great in math and went to MIT after high school. He's a computer science lecturer at Princeton now I think.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19467663 - 01/24/14 01:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: Take perfect pitch for example. That is something that cannot be learned, that is something you are simply born with.
That's actually not true. It's been shown that children who are introduced to music before the age of two have something like a five times higher chance of developing perfect pitch. The brain does a ton of development in infancy when it is extremely elastic.
Okay, but if it's something that can only be learned within the first 2 years of age, then that's pretty much the same thing as being born with it, considering you can't exactly control what your parents expose you to at that age.
I met a pianist who claimed that when he was 3 years old, he would play notes on the piano that were in tune with whatever key that he was playing. If this is true, then certainly, it could be said that he has a natural talent and predisposition to music. Most kids just jumble jargon on instruments at that age.
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DebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Crystal G]
#19467670 - 01/24/14 01:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm pretty much with the "you have to be born with perfect pitch" train of thought.
i know when something is out of tune, but i won't be able to tune it perfectly. hell, even with a tuner telling me it's perfect it still sounds off sometimes.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,473
Loc: 613
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: DebuteMachine]
#19467764 - 01/24/14 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think anyone is born instinctively knowing that A is 440 Hz and so on, doesn't make sense that that information would be built in to the human brain because it's just an arbitrary standard. Some are probably better than others at recalling frequencies though. When I'm playing a lot, if a tune comes to my mind it will often be in the right key if I sing it in my head and then play it. If I'm not in practice, then not so much.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: psi]
#19467904 - 01/24/14 02:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can learn perfect pitch as an adult, not that its a skill worth investing any time into. Equal temperament has little use outside of an orchestra, even in chamber music its generally abandoned for tuning systems which include the perfect fifth (not true for piano obviously).
Quote:
i know when something is out of tune, but i won't be able to tune it perfectly. hell, even with a tuner telling me it's perfect it still sounds off sometimes.
Just takes practice, do you ever sit there and practice tuning? I'm working on intonation and have found a good exercise, basically I'll re-tune each string 12 times, depending on the day I'll start over and work on a new tuning. Relative pitch is a skill many people have mastered Perfect pitch on the other hand is pretty rare and almost entirely useless.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Repertoire89]
#19468130 - 01/24/14 03:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i'm sorry. is perfect pitch being able to discern it? or to mimic it?
i can't sing worth a lick, but i always know when somethings out.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: memes]
#19468323 - 01/24/14 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
memes said: i'm sorry. is perfect pitch being able to discern it? or to mimic it?
i can't sing worth a lick, but i always know when somethings out.
Perfect pitch is the ability to find an exact frequency without any reference, one should be able to produce that frequency perfectly (otherwise there's no reason to think they have perfect pitch).
Any reference would make it relative pitch instead, which is easier and more practical. If one doesn't have perfect pitch and has no reference, it really doesn't matter as one can just select a random frequency and tune relative to that.
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Me_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Repertoire89]
#19468381 - 01/24/14 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said: You can learn perfect pitch as an adult, not that its a skill worth investing any time into. Equal temperament has little use outside of an orchestra, even in chamber music its generally abandoned for tuning systems which include the perfect fifth (not true for piano obviously).
Quote:
i know when something is out of tune, but i won't be able to tune it perfectly. hell, even with a tuner telling me it's perfect it still sounds off sometimes.
Just takes practice, do you ever sit there and practice tuning? I'm working on intonation and have found a good exercise, basically I'll re-tune each string 12 times, depending on the day I'll start over and work on a new tuning. Relative pitch is a skill many people have mastered Perfect pitch on the other hand is pretty rare and almost entirely useless.
Useless?!?!?!?!
Explain.
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DebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Me_Roy]
#19468404 - 01/24/14 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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your instrument can be tuned to perfect pitch, but I know for one, after 10 minutes of playing my guitar it's no longer in tune. i mean i play the fuck out of it. repitore knows, we both have Harmony guitars. the action is really high, and the guitar itself has what i call "torque" as in you can play the fuck out of it. the harder and faster, the better the guitar plays.
i also have a simon and patrick gutiar made of cedar wood. it has a really bright sound, it's perfect for chords.
two different guitars, two different ways they like to be played. who knew.
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Me_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: DebuteMachine]
#19468414 - 01/24/14 04:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DebuteMachine said: your instrument can be tuned to perfect pitch, but I know for one, after 10 minutes of playing my guitar it's no longer in tune. i mean i play the fuck out of it. repitore knows, we both have Harmony guitars. the action is really high, and the guitar itself has what i call "torque" as in you can play the fuck out of it. the harder and faster, the better the guitar plays.
i also have a simon and patrick gutiar made of cedar wood. it has a really bright sound, it's perfect for chords.
two different guitars, two different ways they like to be played. who knew.
If I'm not mistaken people with perfect pitch also have relative pitch. They don't sputter and grind to a halt when the A string is tuned to 441 hz, for ex.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Me_Roy]
#19468459 - 01/24/14 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Me_Roy said:
If I'm not mistaken people with perfect pitch also have relative pitch. They don't sputter and grind to a halt when the A string is tuned to 441 hz, for ex.
I don't think anyone suggested that.
Perfect pitch is nearly useless in the sense that it only applies to equal temperament and only has use within that system if there is no reference pitch available. At the point where you have no reference pitch, well it really doesn't matter - make a reference pitch.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#19468493 - 01/24/14 04:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: $32+/hr is not being ignored. People go to the subway to get places, not to listen to pretentious music.
I don't think you know what pretentious means. An inanimate thing can't be pretentious, and saying something is pretentious when you know little or nothing about it is the definition of being pretentious.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Lion] 1
#19469156 - 01/24/14 07:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said: $32+/hr is not being ignored. People go to the subway to get places, not to listen to pretentious music.
I don't think you know what pretentious means. An inanimate thing can't be pretentious, and saying something is pretentious when you know little or nothing about it is the definition of being pretentious.
She called Bach's music, literally the most mathematically and theoretically complex writer in the world, pretentious.
Basically calling the most mathematically complex overrated, is frankly one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. Bach was truly a numerical genius, and there's a reason very few composers ever came close to his level of composition.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Crystal G]
#19470736 - 01/25/14 06:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
She called Bach's music, literally the most mathematically and theoretically complex writer in the world, pretentious.
Basically calling the most mathematically complex overrated, is frankly one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. Bach was truly a numerical genius, and there's a reason very few composers ever came close to his level of composition.
I'm not so sure that Bach worked with more difficult mathematics than Mian Tansen, his works include Miyan ki Todi, Mand, Sarang, Dabari, Rageshwari and Malhar. An absurdly prolific innovator of the 16th century. Having studied both I don't see much reason to compare them or to say anyone is the most theoretically complex writer in the world, which is highly dubious.
Of course Bach is a genius with very few peers technically, and his personal life doesn't show much reason to consider him ego-maniacal. At the very least it would be impossible for someone of his stature to be pretentious:
Quote:
pre·ten·tious 1. Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
One cannot have a greater importance, more talent, or be more cultured than one of the most influential artistic figures in history. Aside from his compositions he was a multi-instrumentalist and would conduct various sections with different limbs while playing the lead part. His sense of counterpoint alone is absurdly developed:
That being said there is a lot of pretension in the classical scene, being a well educated student of music, dressing and acting the part, I still have musically illiterate snobs looking down their nose at me when attending events. Classical music attracts a lot of bright minds, and a lot of ignorant assholes.
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DebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
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Re: Man playing violin in a DC metro station (moved) [Re: Repertoire89]
#19470802 - 01/25/14 06:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Since we're on the subject of Bach, this piece is still one of the most bone chilling pieces I've ever heard. Moonlight Symphony is a close second (that's Beethoven for anyone who is going to be pretentious here ).
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