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OfflinePeky
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Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not?
    #19466175 - 01/24/14 05:43 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Hi,

My endeavours to cultivate mushrooms started a few months agoand  developed from cultivating MJ for a couple of years. For a first attempt I did a couple of BRF-cakes, trying out three strains of Cubes. It was small but successful. I choose BRF to make sure I understood the process, and how the mushrooms life cycle works. I can recommend anyone wanting to try out cultivating shrooms to start that way. I am sort of Manic and spent hours upon hours reading before starting my project.
However when I recently decided on project number two I had decided to go on to rye berries in Jars and try out G2G teks, I apparently didnt read enough. I had a hunch already packing my jars, that the berries were a bit on the wet side, but for some reason i thought they were about right. Apart from starting just one B+ jar from the same spore syringe I used in for my first attempt - deciding to try and G2G it into new jars or myco bags. At the same time I had been reading up on sclerotia producing mushrooms. The reason? I have many hobbies and ventures, which means I try to adhere to the KISS-principle; "Keep It Simple Stupid." Sclerotia on Jar, with either LC or G2G teks used, seems to me a relatively simple way of producing Psilocybin for personaöl use - which is basically the only thing I am looking to do.
So I decided to give that a go and also knocked up three jars with Galindoi spores from a syringe I bought from a reputable european vendor. I let these for jars stand a couple of weeks and Mycelia started forming pretty early in the B+ jar, with the Galindoi Jars following shortly after. I was however worrying about what i figuered might be just to much moist in there. I could see small water formations inside the jars, in a way I had read that I probably shouldnt. One jar had less of it, and I figured that was the one I filled first, since those kernels were most likely drier (or so I seem to remember it afterwards - the mind is a funny thing). Anyway. 2-3 weeks in I was really worrying and around the end of week three I noticed some faint odour from at least one of my jars when putting my nose close to my homemade polyfill filter. I figuered it had bacillus since there were obvious problems with water inside the jar, and the mycelia had problems reaching certain spots after shaking the jars at around 30% colonization. I also think me shaking a bit to much also crushed a little to many of the berries which I have also read is a source of bacillus spreading/colonizing inside jars. I decided to open one of the jars to examine and toss the contents. The smell and looks made me quite certain i had wet spot/rot/bacillus forming. Down the toilet it went. Shortly after followed two more jars that showed the same symptoms and odour. I was left with one jar that did not let off any odour and also did not look as wet and funky, but had rather some nice mycelia growing. I decided to start a new batch, but keep the one that did not fail (so far) for reference and possibly, some success. Only a day or so after I saw sclerotia starting to form here and there. Now its been another 3 weks or so and it is almost totally colonizd qith what I at least think is some nice nugs forming in there. However, I there is a small area in the Jar that has not yet been colonized. Mycelia is stretching furher and further in ther but at such a slow speed I am worrying a bit.
Now,is there a chance of bacillus developing at the samte time as my Mycelia is thriving? Should i be worrying or not? Just toss the whole thing already, or just hang in there and hope everything smells nutty and nice when I harvest it, and throw it then if it´s gone sour?  There is still no odour evident from the jar, and there are no funky colours inside that I can find. A slight degree of whitiness that does not look entirely like mycelia is among the kernels that has not ben colonized. Look a bot like insides of individual rye berries.

My process for this batch up to now has been:

Soaking Rye Berries over night. Straining them thoroughly afterwards.

Bringing to almost a boil.

Keeping it this way for a while (for what I think was a bit on the long side) then straining again.

Probably didnt let them dry just enough.

Loaded berries into jars, then sterilised in Vaccuum Autoclave B-cycle (benefits at work) that is regularly being tested to work propelry.

Canning jars had metal lids with 10 mm fae holes filtered homemade with polyfill.

Inocculated (through polyfill - my updated jars have separate inoculation ports made from silicone)

Sat them in room temperature circa 22 degree C (sorry dont know F, but it is within the usually specified temp range, on the lower side.

The rest is described above.

For my new batch. started a week ago, I thoroughly let the berries dry until no moist felt on outside, and I used separate inoculation holes. I did another B+, one Galindoi, and then 2 tampanensis Jars. The old Jars were all one litre each which is just above two liquid pints in volume. The new B + one is the same size, the new Sclerotia jars are each 1.5 litres. These look a lot better at the stage the are in now and I am happy about them.

Now, I attach some photos of the one jar I have going from my first batch. Any help/info/suggestions on this jar and its small uncolonized part will be much appreciated.

I am very glad for this forum, as well as other shroom forums on the web. Ther is information in abundant out there and I am so happy about it. Many thanks to everyone who went out here before me.




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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: Peky]
    #19466393 - 01/24/14 07:22 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

i didn't read the whole thing but those jars have bacteria/wet spot.  u said small/uncolonized part, i only see large uncolonized parts.  is it correct pic?


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19466405 - 01/24/14 07:29 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

sry just read whole thing.  after ur rye soaks for that long (24 hours), what i do is simmer, not boil (it may not even "simmer" a bubble or five here and there is ok) for 15 minutes.  while stirring, look for burst grains.  when u see a couple, they will have all turned from brownish/green to brown/tan and expanded.  then dump it into strainer, from there to cookie sheet/table/etc with paper towels, spread out to increase surface area of evaporation, and every 5 minutes mix it with a fork, so the grains touching paper towel ar now exposed to air and the steam comes off.  after to minutes of this, u can just let it alone, as most of the heat that will form the vapor has gone.  then read shrooomery for an hour and come back.  should be good to go.
besides that, how long do u pc?  i noticed a difference with rye when i went from 60 min to 90 min.


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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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OfflinePeky
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Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19466598 - 01/24/14 08:53 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks blindingleaf,

Thats what I thought. As for colonized parts or not, I presume I have mistaken me regarding wet spots vs colonized mycelia.
All pictures are from the same jar. I should have mentioned this. The four pictures in one are the jar from four different angles. The close up is of the large spot that has not got any colonization going. The bottom third of one of the four sides, so to speak. Are you telling me the other parts are not colonized as well, cause that is what I thought it would look like, with yellowish stones slowly forming around the jar? This jar is as stated the only one I kept, since it do not smell, like the others, and also have what I at least thought we're sclerotia forming in all other parts.

What you described about preparing my rye is more or less exactly what I did for my new batch. They look a lot healthier. As for sterilizing, as I said, I am using a automated vacuum autoclave, that is certified and regularly used and validated. I've worked with autoclave snand sterilisation for 16 years prior to trying this out. Hence not using a PC at all, rather automatic sterilisation equipment.

Edited by Peky (01/24/14 11:11 AM)

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: Peky]
    #19467636 - 01/24/14 01:21 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

wow sounds like an awesome autoclave!  as for the scrlerotia, I'm not the best at that, so yes they look like stones, but the wet grains are bad.  have u tried search engine for what other pp.'s sclerotia jars look like?


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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19467665 - 01/24/14 01:27 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Got some bad bacterial juju going on there.

Is rye easily attainable for you?

It is much more beginner friendly :thumbup:


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OfflinePeky
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Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #19475378 - 01/26/14 05:50 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Hi again guys.

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes, I am using rye : )
I buy it easily online from local organic producers. And I have already started a new much healthier batch with no sign a of wet spots. I know for sure now that there was way too much humidity in my old batch and as I said I tossed all but this one that is pictured in the photos above.
The only reason I kept this one is it does not smell bad and it does have what looks like healthy colonization in all but one part, with evident stones forming all around the jar.

Is it even possible for endospore bacteria to thrive alongside mycelia, or will eventually one take the upper hand. Have searched for information on this. I get though that there is no taking a chance when evidently you have bacteria forming. I guess what I am asking is just this; is this bacteria developing for sure, or just a partially stalled jar that might make it all the way?

If anyone can tell me if there is any point at all  in keeping it to see what comes of it, or if it is lost? Will the stones be dangerous if consumed even? I am obviously going to open it up eventually to find put what smells  and contams I can find, if not only to see how this has "interacted" with the stones forming. I am not desperate to get the stones since I have new jars going that don't seem stressed like this. I just feel it is a shame to toss it unless it is a hopeless case.

And yes, an autoclave is really handy when doing this, I've noticed. Even though I had issues with this batch; I think it is all down to my way over top humidity levels in the jars. Either that or I shall have to have a serious talk with the company validating our equipment at work, hehe.

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Partial wet spot in Rye Jar, or not? [Re: Peky]
    #19475417 - 01/26/14 06:13 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

no worries man!  it was a learning experience.  i can't tell u how many jars i messed up making too moist or too dry when i started grains, and it still happens occasionally.

im not sure what kind of pc u have, i have an AA 916 (?)  the one that only fits 7 quarts, no room to stack the 3 additional on top.  i found that even if the pressure weight is on in the "15 psi" hole, the gauge never reads 15 psi. now, the owners manual/direction booklet it came with explicitly states that even if the gauge does not read "15 psi" that when the regulator weight wiggles/releases steam, that it is at 15 psi.  basically saying that the gauge is useless, trust the weight.  well after so many runs with grains, and several jars going to bacteria (even after 1.5 hour runs)  i decided to put some weight on the weight.  now i run it with a rubber band holding two nickels on both sides, which brings the gauge reading up to 15-15.5psi and have totally reduced my bacteria problem jars.  so yea, sometimes the manufacturer can be wrong.  obviously, in the case of a PC, they ere on the side of caution (don't want consumers getting killed by an exploding pc, which makes sense..law suits) but a little more weight is ok, as long as u babysit it the first trial to make sure it isn't too much weight.

as far as consuming stones that may have bacteria...not sure.  if u r starting more, and can wait, i would toss.  or u could keep it and see if the myc takes over, but i doubt it with that much bacteria.  i have spawned jars with a little bacteria and it was ok but that was cubes.  i have seen myc take over yeast with no problem, but not bacteria.

good luck brother!


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

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