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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: The Lightning]
    #19441920 - 01/19/14 10:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Lightning said:
Quote:

Nakor420 said:
but how would you deal with the salt environment?




This would be a bioremediation project involving more than one species, but for the record, this species seems highly likely to succeed in a brackish or salt water environment.

Below: A Mycoboom in salt water (This mycoboom is made of straw colonized with Pleurotus ostreatus mycelium encased in hemp.)



http://fungi.com/blog/items/the-petroleum-problem.html





What about Agaricus bernardii. It will colonize spent oyster straw pretty well. It tolerates lots of salt as well.

Lipa


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19442732 - 01/19/14 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Do we know if that species will consume petroleum? Because that's the point of using oysters...they remediate the petroleum better than any other mushroom...that we know of anyway..


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19442763 - 01/19/14 02:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What about Agaricus bernardii. It will colonize spent oyster straw pretty well. It tolerates lots of salt as well.




If it does colonize spent Pleurotus ostreatus straw, it sounds like a very good food chain connection. Does it also help breakdown cesium (= Cs, Caesium, etc)? Does it also fruit or just stay in a mycelium state?


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19446733 - 01/20/14 09:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Who knows. You could hybridize it.


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: The Lightning]
    #19447160 - 01/20/14 11:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Lightning said:
Quote:

What about Agaricus bernardii. It will colonize spent oyster straw pretty well. It tolerates lots of salt as well.




If it does colonize spent Pleurotus ostreatus straw, it sounds like a very good food chain connection. Does it also help breakdown cesium (= Cs, Caesium, etc)? Does it also fruit or just stay in a mycelium state?




Any secondary decomposer will colonize spent primary decomposer material. Thats why we call it a secondary decomposer.

Man Paul Stamets needs to shut his mouth about this Mycorestoration crap. He needs to stick to one thing and duplicate it numerous times before he opens his mouth again or put it in a fucking book.  A family member of mine works for the state of California as a waste water engineer and when you ask her about fungi being used to clean water or contamination she says people are out of there mind. Bacteria grow faster and even they haven't been proven to clean up spills effective enough to call it good enough. Millions probably billions have been spent on these efforts with not much success.  Take for instance General Dynamics. Before we had environmental laws concerning the disposal of used oil they would dig huge holes in the ground and bury it. If you had any idea how big that company is and how much oil they went through you would shit your pants. Because of this the state of California started installing volatile vapor containment units under streets and near housing editions that sit where these large companies originally did this to keep most of it from rising above ground causing all kinds of health problems like cancer and immune problems in humans. Most of the folks who live in these areas have no idea of the health risks of living in areas like this even though they disclosed this info to the public and put signs up in the units that say living there can cause cancer. Military (our biggest polluters of all) personnel who live on military bases are some of the most exposed people on the planet to these issues and don't even realize it ...How would fungi reach 15-30 ft in the ground? My point is that fungi don't grow in the places that these contaminates linger and cause the most problems. Yes, they can eat bacteria as a food source but they are limited in the fact that they cannot reach or contain all the contamination in a given ecosystem. Simply encouraging ecosystems to proliferate as they naturally would is the best thing people can do for the environment. Fungi alone are not going to produce anything worth while. I look around all the places in my area (and my area is probably one of the most polluted areas in the US) and see all these habitat restoration and cleanup projects around that the government spends millions of dollars for and none of them 5 years later are better off than the day they started. We just keep dumping money in a big hole because some scientist had a hunch and wanted to pull a profit.

The only thing thats going to make a difference is putting people that contaminate the environment and waste precious resources in jail for ever and ever. Simply stopping what we have learned is bad is the only way to clean  up our world. It's all about the collective gathering of selfish people who don't give a shit about anything but money.

IMHO
Lipa


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19447187 - 01/20/14 11:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

how is anything going to break down cesium, anyhow?  I think accumulate is the word.  and I reckon trees would do a much better job at that, since they can draw up to hundreds of gallons on a hot day.


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: drake89]
    #19448472 - 01/20/14 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
how is anything going to break down cesium, anyhow?  I think accumulate is the word.  and I reckon trees would do a much better job at that, since they can draw up to hundreds of gallons on a hot day.




The term is hyper-accumulate. and trees don't continue to "flush" when you remove them...and since you have to remove the fruits from the environment before they die back to have any effect, trees are not a viable option for uptake and removal of cesium.


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OfflineJames.Trichoderma
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19451998 - 01/21/14 09:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

With radioactive isotopes, is the proposed plan to extract fruiting bodies which have accumulated the element while exposing workers to contaminated materials?

How variable are the mycelial accumulations of the selected radioactive isotope? If there is an insurmountable difference then the following is irrelevant, but if they are fairly similar it could be suitable to utilize a "semi-abundant" resource already being produced and discarded as waste in another industry rather than propagating and utilizing freshly spawned materials. Of course, if the mycelia as a dead to dying net colonized with countless other microorganisms following production is deemed useless in comparison with fresh mycelia, again the following is not worth considering.

I do not know what the current target market for button mushroom compost is, but would it be more cost effective to take spent mushroom compost to form large filtration units and then chemically extract the isotope of importance? Though, I am not certain there would be funds present to jump behind any system for even small scale local preventative clean up on the Pacific Coast.

For high risk situations necessitating immediate action, a series of units could be implemented in at least attempted response.

Spent Mushroom Compost--> spike with some NPK to encourage life, and a small selection of selected bacteria, secondary saprophytes, and others--> packed into large mobile units with the ability to induce immediate flow through [think of numerous mattress sized or larger HEPA filters, only the contents are alive or formerly living and the goal is biological filtration of harmful items rather than other microbes]


Poorly Illustrated Idea:

\/= waterflow
_______= filter unit

                                                                                  4        4          4  4
                                                  4      4                4444    4  4        4
                                    4        4  4    4      4          44 4 4  4 44
                            44444444444444444        4  4 4
                    444444444444444
    44444444444444444
4444444444444
4444444
4444
[      ]
[        ] _____
[                      ]
[                      ]_________
[                                            ]
[    Pollution Source or        ]
[--Contaminated Location--]

Place filters in local waterways

[Stream/River/Bay Flow]

  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/ \/  \/ \/  \/
\/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/ \/  \/ \/  \/

_____      _______      ______
   
    _______      _______

_____    _______      ______


Remove filters on a regimented schedule, replacing them with new ones.
Filters could be potentially recycled for several cycles following proper chemical extraction, isolation, and handling of harmful isotopes.


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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19453124 - 01/21/14 02:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lipa said:
Quote:

The Lightning said:
Quote:

What about Agaricus bernardii. It will colonize spent oyster straw pretty well. It tolerates lots of salt as well.




If it does colonize spent Pleurotus ostreatus straw, it sounds like a very good food chain connection. Does it also help breakdown cesium (= Cs, Caesium, etc)? Does it also fruit or just stay in a mycelium state?




Any secondary decomposer will colonize spent primary decomposer material. Thats why we call it a secondary decomposer.

Man Paul Stamets needs to shut his mouth about this Mycorestoration crap. He needs to stick to one thing and duplicate it numerous times before he opens his mouth again or put it in a fucking book.  A family member of mine works for the state of California as a waste water engineer and when you ask her about fungi being used to clean water or contamination she says people are out of there mind. Bacteria grow faster and even they haven't been proven to clean up spills effective enough to call it good enough. Millions probably billions have been spent on these efforts with not much success.  Take for instance General Dynamics. Before we had environmental laws concerning the disposal of used oil they would dig huge holes in the ground and bury it. If you had any idea how big that company is and how much oil they went through you would shit your pants. Because of this the state of California started installing volatile vapor containment units under streets and near housing editions that sit where these large companies originally did this to keep most of it from rising above ground causing all kinds of health problems like cancer and immune problems in humans. Most of the folks who live in these areas have no idea of the health risks of living in areas like this even though they disclosed this info to the public and put signs up in the units that say living there can cause cancer. Military (our biggest polluters of all) personnel who live on military bases are some of the most exposed people on the planet to these issues and don't even realize it ...How would fungi reach 15-30 ft in the ground? My point is that fungi don't grow in the places that these contaminates linger and cause the most problems. Yes, they can eat bacteria as a food source but they are limited in the fact that they cannot reach or contain all the contamination in a given ecosystem. Simply encouraging ecosystems to proliferate as they naturally would is the best thing people can do for the environment. Fungi alone are not going to produce anything worth while. I look around all the places in my area (and my area is probably one of the most polluted areas in the US) and see all these habitat restoration and cleanup projects around that the government spends millions of dollars for and none of them 5 years later are better off than the day they started. We just keep dumping money in a big hole because some scientist had a hunch and wanted to pull a profit.

The only thing thats going to make a difference is putting people that contaminate the environment and waste precious resources in jail for ever and ever. Simply stopping what we have learned is bad is the only way to clean  up our world. It's all about the collective gathering of selfish people who don't give a shit about anything but money.

IMHO
Lipa



I think the point that you're missing is that in some instances fungi would be better competitors than bacteria. Bioremediation is site specific with numerous different variables that come into play. No one system will be able to just be "installed" to get rid of this. In that instance, than yes mycoremediation would most likely be ineffective. But mycoremediation should most definitely be understood, even if its only because it plays a small part in bioremediation.


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: theonlysun81]
    #19457679 - 01/22/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

theonlysun81 said:
Quote:

lipa said:
Quote:

The Lightning said:
Quote:

What about Agaricus bernardii. It will colonize spent oyster straw pretty well. It tolerates lots of salt as well.




If it does colonize spent Pleurotus ostreatus straw, it sounds like a very good food chain connection. Does it also help breakdown cesium (= Cs, Caesium, etc)? Does it also fruit or just stay in a mycelium state?




Any secondary decomposer will colonize spent primary decomposer material. Thats why we call it a secondary decomposer.

Man Paul Stamets needs to shut his mouth about this Mycorestoration crap. He needs to stick to one thing and duplicate it numerous times before he opens his mouth again or put it in a fucking book.  A family member of mine works for the state of California as a waste water engineer and when you ask her about fungi being used to clean water or contamination she says people are out of there mind. Bacteria grow faster and even they haven't been proven to clean up spills effective enough to call it good enough. Millions probably billions have been spent on these efforts with not much success.  Take for instance General Dynamics. Before we had environmental laws concerning the disposal of used oil they would dig huge holes in the ground and bury it. If you had any idea how big that company is and how much oil they went through you would shit your pants. Because of this the state of California started installing volatile vapor containment units under streets and near housing editions that sit where these large companies originally did this to keep most of it from rising above ground causing all kinds of health problems like cancer and immune problems in humans. Most of the folks who live in these areas have no idea of the health risks of living in areas like this even though they disclosed this info to the public and put signs up in the units that say living there can cause cancer. Military (our biggest polluters of all) personnel who live on military bases are some of the most exposed people on the planet to these issues and don't even realize it ...How would fungi reach 15-30 ft in the ground? My point is that fungi don't grow in the places that these contaminates linger and cause the most problems. Yes, they can eat bacteria as a food source but they are limited in the fact that they cannot reach or contain all the contamination in a given ecosystem. Simply encouraging ecosystems to proliferate as they naturally would is the best thing people can do for the environment. Fungi alone are not going to produce anything worth while. I look around all the places in my area (and my area is probably one of the most polluted areas in the US) and see all these habitat restoration and cleanup projects around that the government spends millions of dollars for and none of them 5 years later are better off than the day they started. We just keep dumping money in a big hole because some scientist had a hunch and wanted to pull a profit.

The only thing thats going to make a difference is putting people that contaminate the environment and waste precious resources in jail for ever and ever. Simply stopping what we have learned is bad is the only way to clean  up our world. It's all about the collective gathering of selfish people who don't give a shit about anything but money.

IMHO
Lipa



I think the point that you're missing is that in some instances fungi would be better competitors than bacteria. Bioremediation is site specific with numerous different variables that come into play. No one system will be able to just be "installed" to get rid of this. In that instance, than yes mycoremediation would most likely be ineffective. But mycoremediation should most definitely be understood, even if its only because it plays a small part in bioremediation.





Give me a reference where bioremediation or mycoremediation was used and was fully effective.


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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19458152 - 01/22/14 03:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

http://clu-in.org/download/studentpapers/phytotce.pdf Case Study done by the US military.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19458203 - 01/22/14 03:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lipa said:
Man Paul Stamets needs to shut his mouth about this Mycorestoration crap. He needs to stick to one thing and duplicate it numerous times before he opens his mouth again or put it in a fucking book.






While it is true that mycoremediation works, it is also resource intensive, slow and ineffective.  I am not aware of any environmental problems for which mycoremediation is the best solution.

I used to think that mushrooms could save the world, but about three years ago I asked *** ******** about it, and he said that it doesn't really work.  I was shocked to hear him say that because he is one of the best mushroom cultivators in the world.  He asked me to keep his name out of it because he is well known and does not want to start any battles.  Since then I have looked at mycoremediation with a critical eye.

It is true that oyster mushrooms can eat oil, but how much oil do you need to burn to make all the spawn to eat oil spills?  Oil is also naturally composted by bacteria.

A few years ago there was an oil spill in the bay area and they did a big thing where they soaked up the oil with hair mats and then ate it with oyster mushrooms.  But I was just this week told that the hair mats were locked up as evidence, and they bought new oil to use in the mycoremediation project.  Also it didn't work very well, the mycelium does not eat oil if it's concentrated.  A hair mat full of oil is too dense for mushrooms to eat.    You have to mix it in at a much lower level. 

I was told that the control group that did not use any mushrooms at all had the oil break down nearly as well as the groups where they used oyster mushrooms.  Apparently oil naturally composts.

I was talking to Paul Stamets a couple days ago at soma camp about mycoremediation of the Fukushima area, and he said that they have switched their focus from mycorrhizal mushrooms to saprotrophic ones.    Apparently Clitocybe nuda accumulates cesium pretty well.  Paul said that he has seen the lab report from the Clitocybe nuda that was recently collected near Fukushima and that it was indeed real and contained quite a bit of radioactive cesium.  Certainly Clitocybe nuda is better than the old plan which was to use Gomphidius, however I still have some doubts.  Who wants a job picking radioactive mushrooms?  And how would we ensure that the people pick them before animals do?  Do we pick them when they are just pins, and wouldn't really have much, or do we wait until they are full sized, and risk animals coming along and getting them?


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Offlinepseudotsuga
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19458911 - 01/22/14 05:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
A few years ago there was an oil spill in the bay area and they did a big thing where they soaked up the oil with hair mats and then ate it with oyster mushrooms.  But I was just this week told that the hair mats were locked up as evidence, and they bought new oil to use in the mycoremediation project.  Also it didn't work very well, the mycelium does not eat oil if it's concentrated.




I have a friend who works for a remediation company that was contracted to deal with the leftovers from his experiment. Apparently their chemical analysis of his project showed nothing really happened to the oil which differed from his findings, which he would not comment on.


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19458939 - 01/22/14 05:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Paul Stamets is a really good cultivator "I guess" but It just gets to me all these folks follow his book like he is GOD and use him as a reference.  I hear about it so much it makes my head hurt.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: lipa]
    #19459755 - 01/22/14 09:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lipa said:
Paul Stamets is a really good cultivator "I guess" but It just gets to me all these folks follow his book like he is GOD and use him as a reference.  I hear about it so much it makes my head hurt.




it also sucks cause he gets so many people into this field, and then you come on here and it turns out he can be kind of a dick.  and sells a bunch of way overpriced stuff.


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Offlinespore baby
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19459871 - 01/22/14 09:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

.


Edited by spore baby (12/13/14 04:45 AM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: drake89]
    #19460429 - 01/22/14 11:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
it also sucks cause he gets so many people into this field, and then you come on here and it turns out he can be kind of a dick.






Well that's not exactly how I see it.  It's true that he is not always super happy, and he does sometimes say stuff that I do not agree with.  But he is a smart person and I believe his contribution to mycology is overwhelmingly positive.  He does good work and is more often than not a nice guy.


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19460831 - 01/23/14 03:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

haters...


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19461972 - 01/23/14 11:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Below: Clitocybe nuda (Synonymous with Lepista nuda and Tricholoma nudum)



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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: The Lightning] * 1
    #19464123 - 01/23/14 06:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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