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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1945217 - 09/23/03 04:45 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

First of all, this has nothing to do with any of my professors. Secondly, the Constitution was a work of COMPROMISE between the Federalists(who, by the way, wanted a stronger federal government, which I thought you opposed) and the Jeffersonian Republicans(as opposed to modern-day Republicans). It also sought to compromise between big states and small states, which is how they came up with the electoral system.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1945254 - 09/23/03 04:53 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Professors, teachers... whatever. The point is you seem to know little about the process of electing the president other than.... "it wasn't fair.

It was fair. It was run by the rules in place at the time. It was decided by a 7 - 2 vote, not a 5 - 4 vote as you claim.

You don't even know what type of government we have.

You don't seem to know that Federal Law trumps state law.

If it's not your professors that let you down so miserably, then it was your teachers in the other grades.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1945305 - 09/23/03 05:11 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Professors, teachers... whatever. The point is you seem to know little about the process of electing the president other than.... "it wasn't fair.



Call me crazy, but in an election, which is a DEMOCRATIC process, even if we don't live in a pure democracy, the will of the people voting should be respected. It's only fair. Whether or not it's Constitutional is another matter.

Quote:

It was fair. It was run by the rules in place at the time. It was decided by a 7 - 2 vote, not a 5 - 4 vote as you claim.



link

Quote:

You don't even know what type of government we have.



Sure I do. We live in a Constitutional Republic based on Democratic principles.

Quote:

You don't seem to know that Federal Law trumps state law.



So what happened to this thing called "State's Rights"?

Quote:

If it's not your professors that let you down so miserably, then it was your teachers in the other grades.



I think you need to go back to school.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1945330 - 09/23/03 05:18 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Crazy? No. Just someone who doesn't like the way elections are set out. To that I have two things to say....
1. Get over it.
2. Too fucking bad.


Quote:

The court agreed 7-2, with Souter and Breyer joining the majority, that the differing standards for conducting the recount created an equal-protection problem. But the remedy, they said, was to conduct a new recount with proper standards.



From your link. You must have stopped as soon as you saw the number you liked.



Quote:

Sure I do. We live in a Constitutional Republic based on Democratic principles.



Wrong yet again. It's a Constitutionally Limited Republic.



Quote:

So what happened to this thing called "State's Rights"?




In the case of a Federal Election, federal law trumps. Do I really need to keep repeating that or are you going to get it eventually?



Quote:

I think you need to go back to school.



There you go again being wrong. It appears I have a much better grasp on this subject than you do.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: Autonomous]
    #1945350 - 09/23/03 05:24 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

In my case.... no.


In these cases , yes.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1945351 - 09/23/03 05:25 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Crazy? No. Just someone who doesn't like the way elections are set out. To that I have two things to say....
1. Get over it.
2. Too fucking bad.



Well, there goes the whole idea of political activism.


Quote:

Quote:

The court agreed 7-2, with Souter and Breyer joining the majority, that the differing standards for conducting the recount created an equal-protection problem. But the remedy, they said, was to conduct a new recount with proper standards.



From your link. You must have stopped as soon as you saw the number you liked.



"A 5-4 majority said there was no time to conduct a lawful recount. "
Also from my link


Quote:

Quote:

Sure I do. We live in a Constitutional Republic based on Democratic principles.



Wrong yet again. It's a Constitutionally Limited Republic.



Are you saying it's NOT based on democratic principles? Then let me ask you this: WHY THE FUCK DO WE HAVE ELECTIONS?!


Quote:

Quote:

So what happened to this thing called "State's Rights"?




In the case of a Federal Election, federal law trumps. Do I really need to keep repeating that or are you going to get it eventually?



Show me the federal law that says the recount had to stop. From what I gathered, the whole decision was based on the equal protection clause, and that's a rather unique interpretation of that clause.


Quote:

Quote:

I think you need to go back to school.



There you go again being wrong. It appears I have a much better grasp on this subject than you do.



No, you're just more of an asshole about it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1945428 - 09/23/03 05:46 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Well, there goes the whole idea of political activism.



Wrong again. Use your political activism to change the system if you don't like it. Political activism will have no effect on an election in the past. So, too fucking bad, get over it.



Quote:

"A 5-4 majority said there was no time to conduct a lawful recount. " Also from my link



No shit? That's why I said "as soon as you saw a number you like". I'm well aware there are two numbers on that page.



Quote:

Are you saying it's NOT based on democratic principles? Then let me ask you this: WHY THE FUCK DO WE HAVE ELECTIONS?!



Having a bad day? I never said that the principles of democracy are not involved at all. You claimed at first it's a democracy, then you claimed it's a constitutional republic. I merely pointed out you are incorrect in both descriptions. Once again, it's a Constitutionally Limited Republic.



Quote:

Show me the federal law that says the recount had to stop. From what I gathered, the whole decision was based on the equal protection clause, and that's a rather unique interpretation of that clause.



I'm sure you can find the law on your own If you fail at that as well let me know. The electors are to be named by a certain date. ( I took it easy on you in this case, here you go)
" December 12 [Pursuant to the U.S. Constitution and federal law]

The deadline for the legislature of any state to appoint its own slate of Electors immune from challenge in the U.S. Congress ["safe harbor" provision]. Electors appointed after that date would no longer receive immunity. The ultimate authority for the manner in which Electors are appointed is vested in the state legislature by the U.S. Constitution, Article II, sec. 1, cl. 2. The date for certification of the electors is established by federal law. "

Now, since election law does not appear to be your forte, I'll ask another question, and answer it for you.

What happens if the electors are not certified by the selected date? The legislature from the state in question (Florida) selects them. Who was in control of the legislature? The Republicans. Who would the electors they picked most likely have selected as President? You take this one. I bet you can get it.



Quote:

No, you're just more of an asshole about it.



While that could be taken as a flame, I'd say he who can't admit he's wrong is the bigger one. Since the shoe fits you so very well, you wear it.

Now please, this is getting ridiculous. There's no shame in admitting you're wrong. I grow weary of kicking you while you're down. So unless you have something new to add, backed up by facts and links, I'm done.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1945547 - 09/23/03 06:17 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Well, there goes the whole idea of political activism.



Wrong again. Use your political activism to change the system if you don't like it. Political activism will have no effect on an election in the past. So, too fucking bad, get over it.



Who's trying to change the past? I'm certainly not.


Quote:

Quote:

Are you saying it's NOT based on democratic principles? Then let me ask you this: WHY THE FUCK DO WE HAVE ELECTIONS?!



Having a bad day? I never said that the principles of democracy are not involved at all. You claimed at first it's a democracy, then you claimed it's a constitutional republic. I merely pointed out you are incorrect in both descriptions. Once again, it's a Constitutionally Limited Republic.



Constitutional Republic. Constitutionally Limited Republic. Same shit.


Quote:

Quote:

No, you're just more of an asshole about it.



While that could be taken as a flame, I'd say he who can't admit he's wrong is the bigger one. Since the shoe fits you so very well, you wear it.

Now please, this is getting ridiculous. There's no shame in admitting you're wrong. I grow weary of kicking you while you're down. So unless you have something new to add, backed up by facts and links, I'm done.



That was a flame, and I'm sorry. Your arrogance struck a nerve with me and I let anger get the best of me. My statement, however correct, was inappropriate. For that, I was wrong. I would not consider myself wrong in believing that a system in which the will of people is not recognized should be changed. I'm glad you're done here, because I think we've derailed the thread way too much.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1945575 - 09/23/03 06:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I was hoping you'd give up with being wrong for tonight. Since you seem unable to do so, I'll help you out yet again

A Constitutional Republic is one that uses a constitution to say what they can do.

A Constitutionally Limited Republic uses a constitution to limit what can be done.

Key word being LIMIT.

Now please, I'm begging you. Quit. You don't even have to admit you're wrong. It's obvious enough.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1945596 - 09/23/03 06:32 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

*impression of LuvDemShittyDebateSkills debate tactics*

"I'm wrong and your right.Why? Because I said so. Now admit that you were wrong. (insert pseudo-flame) Having a bad day,fella? :lol:


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Posts: 34,247
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Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: monoamine]
    #1945608 - 09/23/03 06:35 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

monoamine said:
*impression of LuvDemShittyDebateSkills debate tactics*

"I'm wrong and your right.Why? Because I said so. Now admit that you were wrong. (insert pseudo-flame) Having a bad day,fella? :lol:



Care to show me where I didn't back up my statements? Or are you just going to ba a *pre-edited for Rono*?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1945744 - 09/23/03 07:15 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Your arrogance struck a nerve with me and I let anger get the best of me.



You know what silversoul? After a post-dinner re-read... You're right. My tone sucked ass.


You have my sincere apology.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1945798 - 09/23/03 07:30 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

And you have mine as well. Now, let's get back on-topic and put this qubbling behind us.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Has your vote ever made a difference. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1945823 - 09/23/03 07:37 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well no,I've never voted since I was too young,but my future votes will make a difference-just an extremely tiny one,like 1 in several million.

I can't stand people that can't vote.Jesus,you can't take 15 minutes of your T.V. watching time to pull a freaking lever or punch some holes?

My local voting place is less than a half mile away. I took my grandma to vote,and I timed it and we were there and back home in less than ten minutes.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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