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insutama
No pain no gain


Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 1,207
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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What am i doing wrong ??
#19454818 - 01/21/14 08:43 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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So i stopped growing mushrooms for quite sometime because for some reason i could never get my tubs to make good fruit all the shrooms alway were so small and i cant figure out why anyway i thought i would give it a other shot 2 years later and here i am facing the same problem i had before. I put some pictures to show you so maybe you can see what im doing wrong basically i used a spore syringe i made to inoculate rye grain jars and the jars colonized real fast everything looked good. then i prepped my substrate using the damion 50/50 bucket tek i mixed the cooled substrate with the spawn from jars in tubs then i let them sit for about 10 days and all but one tiny spot on the bottom of the tub colonized and it wasn't growing anymore so i pulled the tape off the holes put in polly fill in cooled the room down put a osolating fan in the room facing towards the tubs and put a fluorescent tube above the tubs. then 2 - 3 times a day i was fanning them and misting if needed now the pins are just starting and they look like there all gonna be tiny little shrooms specially when there dry anyway tips and advice would be great here ill keep updating pics and they fruit and u guys can see maybe what im doing wrong thanks for the support.


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mushmagic
supporting radical habits



Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 5,372
Loc: Candyland
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: insutama]
#19454830 - 01/21/14 08:46 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I see two mature ones that are pretty tiny but the rest are still just pins. Just gotta give them time to mature to full size.
--------------------
Trade list in journal (partially under construction; more to be added)
Don't judge a man by what kinda shoes he in, judge a man on where that man's shoes been.
Edited by mushmagic (01/21/14 09:35 PM)
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Earthshaker
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 8
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: insutama]
#19454960 - 01/21/14 09:19 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi there,
first of all I want to say this: It continues being a struggle until suddenly you will have no trouble at all. You are already quite far ahead, but something is not going well. So maybe this is your chance to change something 
I don't know anything about this bucket 50/50 technique, and if you asked me, I wouldn't even look it up, because in my opinion the Mushroom Cultivator's guide by Paul Stamets is the best resource to get you to understand how growing mushrooms works. I strongly advice you to get that book and read it, you will see 
But for now, here are a couple of suggestions:
- First, when your substrate is colonized using your spore syringe (I never used a spore syringe in my life, only petri dishes), then probably this step is pretty clean. I assume you are doing this within a sterile inoculation box.
- Second, the process of spawning creates an additional possibility for contamination. For cubensis it is not necessary to spawn the culture, you can rather use the cultivated grains directly. To do this, simply use a new freezer bag, fill the grains into it (all within the sterile inoculation box of course...), break it down with your hand, and then fill it out of the freezer bag into the tub. Then fill a cover layer of about 0.5 - 1 inches (coco hum, or whatever, I use just vermiculite because cubes don't care at all) on top of the grains. The cover layer needs to have the adequate moisture content of course.
- Third, make sure that your tub has been wiped off with 70% isopropanol by using clean Kleenex (Within the sterile inoculation box of course.)
- Fourth, there is no need to mist cubensis. They absolutely don't care at all.
- Artificial light is not necessary. Before the light is a reason, everything else will be more important. There are likely other issues with your method than the light.
- The cover layer (preferably vermiculite) can be prepared by soaking vermiculite in boiled water (right from the kettle), and letting it cool down. Then remove all the excess water and use the vermiculite directly on your grains that have been placed into the tub for casing.
My biggest advice is: Do it right. Get the Stamets book, and check for yourself whether your technique follows the basic principle taught in that book. If not, adjust yourself to that book. Once you have followed the procedure from that book, your success rate will go up to 100% and you can then start deriving your method into whatever direction. But it is important to get you securely started. It is important to be 100% clean, because contaminated mushrooms are a big health risk.
I hope this helps to shake the earth.
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MaJiK_420
...lost



Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 447
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: mushmagic]
#19454983 - 01/21/14 09:26 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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That doesn't look too bad. Not too great either but at least something is growing.
If your using spore syringe, your always gonna be rolling the dice with genetics. I've had some wall to wall tubs, but that doesn't always happen. Doesn't necessarily mean your doing anything wrong, but the genetics just aren't right sometimes. Gotta keep trying, or learn how to mess with agar and start isolating good strains.
Sometimes crappy first flush means a phatty second flush.
If your feeling dangerous, try adding coffee(to your next batch) and see if that pumps up your jam.
Edited by MaJiK_420 (01/21/14 09:43 PM)
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Fungal growth
Lootinint



Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: Earthshaker]
#19455012 - 01/21/14 09:33 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Take out the polyfill and lose the fan. Mist as needed. You can replace and adjust the polyfill if it is getting too dry, but the fan will sry it out fast.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs


Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: MaJiK_420]
#19455062 - 01/21/14 09:45 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Looks like a 21ish qt sterilite tub. You inoculated via MSS (Multi Spore Syringe) which as Earthshaker pointed out is a total crapshoot. However the other issue with MSS is that there is very little guarantee on clean.
IMHO:
You are getting pins prior to what I see as "full colonization". This is generally an indication of other issues (bacteria or worse). I have had a few tubs crap out from bacteria, and they ALWAYS produced a huge flush of small fruits. Are they good to eat? Damn skippy. Will your sub survive to make a 3rd flush? Hell no.
I would examine your technique on sterile inoculation. If you can say that there is "no honest way of contamination" than the second guess would be the MSS.
I personally have had MSS from the supplier be bad. It happens, probably more than you or I can guess.
Give it time. I have stated it before....Bacterial infections are not an end-game instantly, however there is a certain eventuality, usually involving a secondary infection half way in the second flush.
Keep in mind I am just speculating based on your photo and description. These things that we insist on cultivating actually have their own mind, and at times will do things that will make you scratch your head. Funny thing about that, if they were so smart they wouldn't grow at all, knowing that they are very edible.
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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Don't take out the polyfil but maybe loosen it. And some of those look like they are going to be pretty decent size. Also sometimes when the first flush has small fruits you can soak it and get a lot bigger fruits on later flushes
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
 
I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey
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magickspore



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 798
Loc: Center of the universe.
Last seen: 7 months, 8 days
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: Earthshaker]
#19455076 - 01/21/14 09:48 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Earthshaker said: Hi there,
first of all I want to say this: It continues being a struggle until suddenly you will have no trouble at all. You are already quite far ahead, but something is not going well. So maybe this is your chance to change something 
I don't know anything about this bucket 50/50 technique, and if you asked me, I wouldn't even look it up, because in my opinion the Mushroom Cultivator's guide by Paul Stamets is the best resource to get you to understand how growing mushrooms works. I strongly advice you to get that book and read it, you will see 
But for now, here are a couple of suggestions:
- First, when your substrate is colonized using your spore syringe (I never used a spore syringe in my life, only petri dishes), then probably this step is pretty clean. I assume you are doing this within a sterile inoculation box.
- Second, the process of spawning creates an additional possibility for contamination. For cubensis it is not necessary to spawn the culture, you can rather use the cultivated grains directly. To do this, simply use a new freezer bag, fill the grains into it (all within the sterile inoculation box of course...), break it down with your hand, and then fill it out of the freezer bag into the tub. Then fill a cover layer of about 0.5 - 1 inches (coco hum, or whatever, I use just vermiculite because cubes don't care at all) on top of the grains. The cover layer needs to have the adequate moisture content of course.
- Third, make sure that your tub has been wiped off with 70% isopropanol by using clean Kleenex (Within the sterile inoculation box of course.)
- Fourth, there is no need to mist cubensis. They absolutely don't care at all.
- Artificial light is not necessary. Before the light is a reason, everything else will be more important. There are likely other issues with your method than the light.
- The cover layer (preferably vermiculite) can be prepared by soaking vermiculite in boiled water (right from the kettle), and letting it cool down. Then remove all the excess water and use the vermiculite directly on your grains that have been placed into the tub for casing.
My biggest advice is: Do it right. Get the Stamets book, and check for yourself whether your technique follows the basic principle taught in that book. If not, adjust yourself to that book. Once you have followed the procedure from that book, your success rate will go up to 100% and you can then start deriving your method into whatever direction. But it is important to get you securely started. It is important to be 100% clean, because contaminated mushrooms are a big health risk.
I hope this helps to shake the earth.
There is so much wrong with this post that I'm not even gonna try to fix it. Read through how frank gets shit done (top link). Compare it to how you did yours and see where you went wrong, what could be done better or different and keep trying. The best advice I can give you is pick 1 tek and follow it to the letter.
Here
And here
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Fungal growth
Lootinint



Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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I would have let it colonize a few more days, but it looks fine. 50/50 almost always worked for me but its not true pasteurization so its still a gamble. Whats the temp in the room? Cooler temps mean slower, but denser, growth. It looks like its still pinning, i see tons of knots. Loosen or take out the poly so it gets plenty of air and mist as needed. Get rid of the fan, a monotub doesnt need it.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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The fan can help but don't point it directly at the tubs. You want the polyfil in the bottom holes very tight. The top holes should be very loose almost falling out. No offense to earth shaker but it seems like he's dealing with some outdated info I wouldn't go directly off of his advice
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insutama
No pain no gain


Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 1,207
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: gizmo1]
#19457045 - 01/22/14 10:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Okay first of all thanks for all the replies Im pretty sure i was clean when i was inoculating the jars i did it all in glove box and the jars had no signs of contams. The temp in my room is now 70F. The two shrooms that were mature i picked and they were tiny like maybe 1" tall wet but the others still look like they may get bigger so i'm just crossing my fingers hoping they get a bit bigger. i loosened the polly fill at the top of the tubs. the reason i have a florescent tube is because the room doesn't get much light. it seems like the base of the shrooms are fat and the caps are real small at the moment anyway ill take a other picture tomorrow and you guys can tell me what you think thanks for all the advice i really hope these arent all tiny shrooms again. The reason i know its not just genetics is because i have done the BRF tek and sure some time shrooms were bigger than others but they were always bigger than these little guys.
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


Registered: 07/04/13
Posts: 1,150
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: magickspore]
#19457119 - 01/22/14 11:18 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
magickspore said:
Quote:
Earthshaker said: Hi there,
first of all I want to say this: It continues being a struggle until suddenly you will have no trouble at all. You are already quite far ahead, but something is not going well. So maybe this is your chance to change something 
I don't know anything about this bucket 50/50 technique, and if you asked me, I wouldn't even look it up, because in my opinion the Mushroom Cultivator's guide by Paul Stamets is the best resource to get you to understand how growing mushrooms works. I strongly advice you to get that book and read it, you will see 
But for now, here are a couple of suggestions:
- First, when your substrate is colonized using your spore syringe (I never used a spore syringe in my life, only petri dishes), then probably this step is pretty clean. I assume you are doing this within a sterile inoculation box.
- Second, the process of spawning creates an additional possibility for contamination. For cubensis it is not necessary to spawn the culture, you can rather use the cultivated grains directly. To do this, simply use a new freezer bag, fill the grains into it (all within the sterile inoculation box of course...), break it down with your hand, and then fill it out of the freezer bag into the tub. Then fill a cover layer of about 0.5 - 1 inches (coco hum, or whatever, I use just vermiculite because cubes don't care at all) on top of the grains. The cover layer needs to have the adequate moisture content of course.
- Third, make sure that your tub has been wiped off with 70% isopropanol by using clean Kleenex (Within the sterile inoculation box of course.)
- Fourth, there is no need to mist cubensis. They absolutely don't care at all.
- Artificial light is not necessary. Before the light is a reason, everything else will be more important. There are likely other issues with your method than the light.
- The cover layer (preferably vermiculite) can be prepared by soaking vermiculite in boiled water (right from the kettle), and letting it cool down. Then remove all the excess water and use the vermiculite directly on your grains that have been placed into the tub for casing.
My biggest advice is: Do it right. Get the Stamets book, and check for yourself whether your technique follows the basic principle taught in that book. If not, adjust yourself to that book. Once you have followed the procedure from that book, your success rate will go up to 100% and you can then start deriving your method into whatever direction. But it is important to get you securely started. It is important to be 100% clean, because contaminated mushrooms are a big health risk.
I hope this helps to shake the earth.
There is so much wrong with this post that I'm not even gonna try to fix it. Read through how frank gets shit done (top link). Compare it to how you did yours and see where you went wrong, what could be done better or different and keep trying. The best advice I can give you is pick 1 tek and follow it to the letter.
Here
And here

Ignore Earthshakers advice unless you are living in the 80's. You are way more advanced than going back in time 30 years. You have no sign of contams so your procedure has been fine on that count. I have had tubs where there are a few weird spindly mushrooms but the rest are proper boomers - this seems to be what you have. That is MS genetics - don't worry about it. Report back when the flush is over
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Earthshaker
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 8
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: Skinty]
#19457130 - 01/22/14 11:21 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just tried to give honest advice. I won't do it anymore.
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


Registered: 07/04/13
Posts: 1,150
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Quote:
HypnotoadCroaked said: Looks like a 21ish qt sterilite tub. You inoculated via MSS (Multi Spore Syringe) which as Earthshaker pointed out is a total crapshoot. However the other issue with MSS is that there is very little guarantee on clean.
IMHO:
You are getting pins prior to what I see as "full colonization". This is generally an indication of other issues (bacteria or worse). I have had a few tubs crap out from bacteria, and they ALWAYS produced a huge flush of small fruits. Are they good to eat? Damn skippy. Will your sub survive to make a 3rd flush? Hell no.
I would examine your technique on sterile inoculation. If you can say that there is "no honest way of contamination" than the second guess would be the MSS.
I personally have had MSS from the supplier be bad. It happens, probably more than you or I can guess.
Give it time. I have stated it before....Bacterial infections are not an end-game instantly, however there is a certain eventuality, usually involving a secondary infection half way in the second flush.
Keep in mind I am just speculating based on your photo and description. These things that we insist on cultivating actually have their own mind, and at times will do things that will make you scratch your head. Funny thing about that, if they were so smart they wouldn't grow at all, knowing that they are very edible.
His problem isn't about contamination he is worried about small fruits. I see no sign of contam and the surface is colonised so all you said is fairly irrelevant IMO
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


Registered: 07/04/13
Posts: 1,150
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: Earthshaker]
#19457137 - 01/22/14 11:23 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Earthshaker said: I just tried to give honest advice. I won't do it anymore.
Don't be a dick your advice is valued - it's what you believe and it's valid! However cultivation has moved on a ridiculous amount since the book you are referring to
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Enigma1
Positive



Registered: 08/15/13
Posts: 977
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: insutama]
#19457162 - 01/22/14 11:29 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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That small clutter to the middle left clone it them do the mono again.Don't give up I just lost my first mono after 21 days of waiting .
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Kalsticky
royale with cheese


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 729
Loc: The invisible landscape
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: magickspore]
#19457200 - 01/22/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
magickspore said:
Quote:
Earthshaker said: Hi there,
first of all I want to say this: It continues being a struggle until suddenly you will have no trouble at all. You are already quite far ahead, but something is not going well. So maybe this is your chance to change something 
I don't know anything about this bucket 50/50 technique, and if you asked me, I wouldn't even look it up, because in my opinion the Mushroom Cultivator's guide by Paul Stamets is the best resource to get you to understand how growing mushrooms works. I strongly advice you to get that book and read it, you will see 
But for now, here are a couple of suggestions:
- First, when your substrate is colonized using your spore syringe (I never used a spore syringe in my life, only petri dishes), then probably this step is pretty clean. I assume you are doing this within a sterile inoculation box.
- Second, the process of spawning creates an additional possibility for contamination. For cubensis it is not necessary to spawn the culture, you can rather use the cultivated grains directly. To do this, simply use a new freezer bag, fill the grains into it (all within the sterile inoculation box of course...), break it down with your hand, and then fill it out of the freezer bag into the tub. Then fill a cover layer of about 0.5 - 1 inches (coco hum, or whatever, I use just vermiculite because cubes don't care at all) on top of the grains. The cover layer needs to have the adequate moisture content of course.
- Third, make sure that your tub has been wiped off with 70% isopropanol by using clean Kleenex (Within the sterile inoculation box of course.)
- Fourth, there is no need to mist cubensis. They absolutely don't care at all.
- Artificial light is not necessary. Before the light is a reason, everything else will be more important. There are likely other issues with your method than the light.
- The cover layer (preferably vermiculite) can be prepared by soaking vermiculite in boiled water (right from the kettle), and letting it cool down. Then remove all the excess water and use the vermiculite directly on your grains that have been placed into the tub for casing.
My biggest advice is: Do it right. Get the Stamets book, and check for yourself whether your technique follows the basic principle taught in that book. If not, adjust yourself to that book. Once you have followed the procedure from that book, your success rate will go up to 100% and you can then start deriving your method into whatever direction. But it is important to get you securely started. It is important to be 100% clean, because contaminated mushrooms are a big health risk.
I hope this helps to shake the earth.
There is so much wrong with this post that I'm not even gonna try to fix it. Read through how frank gets shit done (top link). Compare it to how you did yours and see where you went wrong, what could be done better or different and keep trying. The best advice I can give you is pick 1 tek and follow it to the letter.
Here
And here
I was just about to quote this post and say the exact same thing. Shroomery is the best plac e for mushroom cultivation, just follow the trusted cultivators. Paul's book is outdated and there's new ideas coming in everyday dissproving a lot of different ideas from back then. like what everyone said, pick a tek and follow it to a t(i prefer to listen to trusted cultivators such as frank, RR and so many more.) GL
-------------------- "Nature loves courage. You make the commitment and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up. This is the trick. This is what all these teachers and philosophers who really counted, who really touched the alchemical gold, this is what they understood. This is the shamanic dance in the waterfall. This is how magic is done. By hurling yourself into the abyss and discovering its a feather bed.”
― Terence McKenna
T.C. Mexicube. P.C. Brazilian
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baldwintpenguin
5 Wolf Pack



Registered: 08/08/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: Enigma1]
#19457235 - 01/22/14 11:50 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I use a similar set up, only I use popcorn instead of rye. Keep the poly loose,lose the fan.
Also when I do monos I open the tubs every few days, no fanning needed, that's the point of the poly.
On colonization I wait until the tub has colonized 100%. 98-99% vs 100% has made the differences for me between monsters and wimps, many tubs I don't even introduce fruiting conditions until I see pins.
I use multiple to popcorn, bucket Tek with coir/verm in a monotub
Through trial and error from the above I've got it down to getting these regularly
--------------------

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
baldwintpenguin said: I use a similar set up, only I use popcorn instead of rye. Keep the poly loose,lose the fan.
Also when I do monos I open the tubs every few days, no fanning needed, that's the point of the poly.
On colonization I wait until the tub has colonized 100%. 98-99% vs 100% has made the differences for me between monsters and wimps, many tubs I don't even introduce fruiting conditions until I see pins.
I use multiple to popcorn, bucket Tek with coir/verm in a monotub
Through trial and error from the above I've got it down to getting these regularly

Obviously popcorn works as you have shown and experienced; however you might think about switching to a different grain. Although I advocate don't fix it if it aint broke you can have better spawn ratios and less work if you go with smaller grains like WBS and Rye. They have more "inoculation" power since the individual grains are smaller. They're also "easier" to prepare and you could lower your spawn substrate ratios and end up with the same size harvests. Just something to ponder.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/22/14 12:03 PM)
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1down5up
Social Ninja



Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 1,743
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: What am i doing wrong ?? [Re: insutama]
#19457440 - 01/22/14 12:41 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
insutama said: So i stopped growing mushrooms for quite sometime because for some reason i could never get my tubs to make good fruit all the shrooms alway were so small and i cant figure out why anyway i thought i would give it a other shot 2 years later and here i am facing the same problem i had before. I put some pictures to show you so maybe you can see what im doing wrong basically i used a spore syringe i made to inoculate rye grain jars and the jars colonized real fast everything looked good. [/url]
Did you make the syringe yourself from the last "small" grow you did? Maybe you just need some new genetics man. When this tray fruits, clone the largest fruit on some BRF agar sub and see if you can grow it out a little bigger next time around. You could always order new spores, or trade on here once you're able...
-------------------- ~~Everything is relative~~
A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies - RR says - EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes - Frank's list of goodies - Cronicr's Goodies
No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life. J.L.
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