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OfflineHannibal88
Aryan Psychonaut
Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 71
Loc: farfromvalhalla
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING
    #1945213 - 09/23/03 06:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Rapid Mycelial Pinning Response Via Temperature Cycling: A Prelude
By C. Thomas
cheatsman43@yahoo.com
9/23/03

Bottom Line: With this method, you can get your casing to pin whenever you want it to, regardless of how much the mycelium has grown in. Read: No more waiting 2+ weeks for pinning. I?m eager for someone else to try this to see if they have the same success.

Background:
I generally let my casing pans grow at 86 degrees for four days to speed up mycelial colonization of the soil, and then subsequently cold-shock the pan and leave it at 75 degrees until pinning begins.

But recently, I had one pan with which I did this, but I was not satisfied with its colonization level. So I decided to put the pan back at 86 degrees overnight, in hopes that it would grow in a bit more.

The next day, I pulled the pan out again, figuring it was sufficiently colonized, since it would grow in a bit more anyway (though it was not well colonized for pinning). This time, I didn?t bother to cold shock it the pan, but instead just put it back out at 75 degrees and left it there

What happened next was startling. Within 24 hours, the relatively un-colonized pan had started to initiate pinning, even though the casing wasn?t nearly as colonized as pans I had previously prepared.

At this point, a signal went off in my mind. This process had previously taken two weeks (give or take) of waiting and hoping that the soil didn?t get overlay. Now, I suddenly had a 5-day-old, semi-colonized pan shooting up mushrooms at a very predictable time. The temperature cycles were key.

The Cycle:
Here?s what I did in the first trial:

The substrate was inoculated, colonized at 86 degrees, and subsequently broken up and made into casing. Casing was kept at 86 degrees for two days, after which additional casing soil was applied over whatever mycelium that had popped through the soil. The pan was placed back at 86 degrees for two more days (so 4 days total at 86F). It was then removed and cold-shocked in the refrigerator overnight. The pan was put at 75 degrees for 1-2 days, and then placed back into 86 degree conditions overnight. Finally, it was removed, and once again placed at 75 degrees.

The result was that pins began to form within about 24 hours. Keep in mind that this first trial was not intentional, and was rather early, since the mycelium had not spread to the surface very extensively.

My Recommendations:
Put at 86 degrees for 2 days. Check pan, cover mycelium over with casing. Keep at 86 for 3 more days. Cold shock overnight. Place at 75 degrees for 2 days. Place at 86 degrees overnight. Place at 75, and wait.

This will come out to approximately 5-6 days of preparation, and a day or so of waiting, for a total of no more than a week to pinning. This is far superior to simply leaving it at 75 degrees and being forced to wait for up to two weeks and run the risk of overlay and contamination.

Why It?s Not Just a Theory:
While the first trial may have been due to chance, I?ve done the same thing intentionally with two other pans and gotten the same results. In addition, each pan has been colonized to a different degree than the others, but has still pinned.

Speculations on Mechanism:
As somewhat of a junior science expert, as it were, I think a good hypothesis for this phenomenon is as follows.

When the mycelial network is forming, it responds to drops in temperature, which in the natural environment, would signal the coming of cooler weather. However, I don?t the usual method of jerking the temperature down 10 degrees and leaving it there does the trick. Why?

Well, look at the situation from a biological standpoint: If you?re a fungus, you want to spread your mycelium as thoroughly as possible before pinning, so that you can sprout as many fruits, and thus spread as many spores, as possible. On the other hand, you don?t want to wait too long to produce fruits, or you?ll lose your chance. So you use a temperature drop as a signal to start pinning.

But here?s where things get tricky: Seasons can also change quickly, so a large temperature drop can also signify that it?s too late to pin. So it?s not in the best interest of the fungus to sprout fruits if they?re only going to die and the new spores aren?t going to take hold.

From the fungus? standpoint, the key to maximizing growth and survival is to ensure that growth conditions are favorable while simultaneously waiting for as long as possible, so that growth can be maximized.

So why doesn?t the traditional growth method ? that is, changing from 86 to 75 degrees and nothing else (except cold-shocking) ? work very efficiently? Because the mycelium thinks the temperatures are going to stay cold, so it holds off until it?s sure it?s safe to go ahead with pinning (e.g., 2 weeks later when nothing has changed).

So how do you get a mushroom to pin when you want it to? You give it confirmation of cooler temperatures, but also give it some warmth in the process, so that it knows the world hasn?t frozen over already. In other words, you create a trend from hot to cool, but in a cyclical pattern.

A temperature reduction from 86 degrees starts off the process by giving the mycelium a warning that cooler days are coming. But subsequently raising the temperature to 86, and then dropping it back to 75 again, gives confirmation that it?s still warm enough, and not too late to produce fruits. But it sends the signal that the window of opportunity for the fungus to proliferate itself is shrinking.

The end result? An immediate, ?panic? response, if you will, to send off spores as quickly as possible while it?s still got the chance.

Obviously, this is all theoretical, but the genetic code is amazingly complicated, and such a hypothesis is not unreasonable. In any case, the subject warrants further research.

Disclaimer:
All aforementioned experiments are imaginary and have never been performed by myself or anyone else, with the exception of the space alien Sorlag that came to my window last night. I have never seen or experienced a psychedelic mushroom of any species; nor do I even know the definition of ?mycology.?

Contact:
If you want to share experiences personally, give feedback (be it good or bad), etc., you can email me at:
cheatsman43@yahoo.com


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InvisibleSolarFlare
Lady Flare

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 194
Loc: LaLa Land
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Hannibal88]
    #1945266 - 09/23/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

delete this double post...


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Invisibleslime_R
The Good Doctor

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 858
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Hannibal88]
    #1945329 - 09/23/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Just getting ready to case. I'll give it a go as I don't think it could hurt anything.

I'll tell ya how it goes.


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OfflineBenFungTorez
Los Rancheros!

Registered: 04/06/03
Posts: 38
Loc: Way up there...
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: slime_R]
    #1945394 - 09/23/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

have you tried just cycling between 86C and 4C for several days?


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OfflineHannibal88
Aryan Psychonaut
Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 71
Loc: farfromvalhalla
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: BenFungTorez]
    #1945488 - 09/23/03 08:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BenFungTorez said:
have you tried just cycling between 86C and 4C for several days?




I imagine that might work too. Again, this is all experimental at this point, but what I've observed is very positive.

I just did what I did because it was easier than cold-shocking. In any case, some trials will show what works best, but what I did seems sufficient so far. Some strains might be more stubborn.


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Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: BenFungTorez]
    #1945988 - 09/23/03 10:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BenFungTorez said:
have you tried just cycling between 86C and 4C for several days?



86C is about 187F. typo?


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OfflineTLaL0c
Stranger
Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 5
Last seen: 13 years, 21 days
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Hannibal88]
    #1963845 - 09/29/03 09:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm... I had a very similar experience when I put my heater on the same auto-timer that my light was on, but I didn't think much of it then. Cant wait to try it out. In fact I just pulled some cakes out of the fridge 3 hours ago. Ill try it on some and not others and tell you how it goes for me.

What species are you working with by the way?



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Invisiblecricket
Lord Cricket
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 910
Loc: in my house, in front of ...
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: TLaL0c]
    #1964011 - 09/29/03 10:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You are getting close to a natural cycle. I have wondered if shrooms would benefit from a day night temp. change.
Most plants and animals do.


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I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work...
By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?


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Offlinedcx
Mic of theRoundTable
Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: cricket]
    #1966361 - 09/30/03 04:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

what type of humidity are you dealing with? Would it also work to fluxuate the humidty during the night time period in which you are changing the temperature? just wondered if u tried anything. plus if u have any pictures id like to see, to see the type of yield we are talking with a not completely colonized pan. funny how god works eh?!


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OfflineYeti_009
CryptoZoologicalAnimal

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 232
Loc: I. D.idnt A.sk H.ow O.ld
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: dcx]
    #1966383 - 09/30/03 04:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Right on.. I have had similar experiences, cold shocking a casing with a semi colonized layer.. then realizing how big of a dumbass i am.. and thinking that i need to let it colonize more.. putting it back in my closet (lower 80's) for a day or so.. and thinking "OH FUCK.. i just told it its time to pin, but put it back in the closet. it should really be fruiting) then taking it down from the closet. and seeing pins.. (YAY).. ..
i never really thought that temp fluctuations is what did it.. .. i just thought i was having good luck... but now.. that makes sense..
AWESOME OBSERVATION HANNIBAL88
yur the shit shun!..


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OfflineBushdoctor
Reject from thespirit realm trying to getthome

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 60
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Yeti_009]
    #1993923 - 10/09/03 05:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yea me to quite accidentwly i have ALWAYS cycled. I washent planning on it it just seemd as a logick thing to do. And the longest i hve ever waithed for pins it 5 days last time little more then 3 i just putt the shrooms in the fridge over night and in a warm high humid enwoierment during daytime. I also get good yealds my first try ever wash a kit that wash said to mak a avrage og 10 grams dry per flush, a little less on the first and a little more on the others, my first flush wash 18 grams dry and i just used a large pot coverd with plastic foilage and handsprayed it for humidety. Now that i have a better setup, Large aquarium fishtank bubbler with dual exhaust vents) the yeal is stedy going up cycling is THE THING TO DO.


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Invisiblepussycontrol
unregistered

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 264
Loc: unregistered
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Bushdoctor]
    #1994362 - 10/09/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Its funny how people began to turn scientist after a few grows. Nice outline of your hypothesis upon the lighting cyle.
IMO. heat 4 days, pull pad out from under. Let grow ,repeat if needed.<-the revised version.lol


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OfflineVividDreams
Earthling

Registered: 09/03/02
Posts: 381
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Hannibal88]
    #1998332 - 10/10/03 08:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Very nice Hannibal!! I am very curious to see others results with this..By all means keep us up to date! I suggest doing a few casings at once and use'n different cycles.Also the reply regarding humidty needs to be addressed..It's people like this that takes the hobby/science to the next level..keep it come'n bro! :thumbup: 


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Offlinebrainwreck
Fungal Ally
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 24
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: VividDreams]
    #2017729 - 10/17/03 01:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I tried the temperature cycling... it seems to work very well. My thailand koh samui cakes (brf) pinned in the jars after 3 days of temp cycling.

This surprised me a great deal. I had been told that only Amazonians will pin in - vitro like that.


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Offlinechillywilly
Eat well - Diethome
Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 104
Loc: 49 th State
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: brainwreck]
    #2018116 - 10/17/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm digging through all my old waterbed stuff looking for the heater so my friends friend can try this out.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 6 days
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: chillywilly]
    #2019791 - 10/18/03 04:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How would you do this with a cold shock / dunk tek? I usually dunk my cakes in a plastic bag in the fridge, how would I get them back to incubation temps before birthing?


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Offlineshwowsh
growologist

Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 236
Loc: Deep in the Heart...
Last seen: 10 months, 7 days
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: lysergic]
    #2029624 - 10/21/03 07:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

maybe you could try doing the cycle with your whole fruiting chamber of cakes. After you cold shock/dunk them, you put them in your rubbermaid or whatever, and even though you aren't letting mycelium grow a bit more in a casing, you could try putting your cakes back at 80-86 for a few days, then 70-75, then, back to 80's, then finally back to 70s. I might dry to do something like this using some of those blocks you stick in the freezer, and use to keep stuff in little personal sized coolers cold. So after cold shocking/dunking, put into fruiting chamber as normal, but keep the whole thing at incubating temp, and then either move it to a cooler location, or use a few of those ice pack things for a day just to cool em down a bit, etc. i'll let everyone know how that goes if I do it.


--------------------
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We're all children here, so could we please start acting like it?


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Invisibleshroomophile
ShroomitusFidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 762
Loc: USA
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Hannibal88]
    #2144996 - 11/29/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 9 days ago)

Followed your recommendations and i have pins in 6 days(koh samui) from casing.Saved at least a week on the process.5 Shrooms for you.


--------------------
Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.


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Offlinebrainwreck
Fungal Ally
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 24
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: Hannibal88]
    #2149001 - 12/01/03 12:04 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I tried the temp cycling with a casing of Thai KS on popcorn cased with verm/coir. Once again the knots began to form on the fifth day, and on day 7 pins are clearly visible. So either these thai koh samui are fast, or temp cycling works like magic. Is there anyone out there growing Thai Koh Samui that has experienced longer fruiting times ?


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OfflineBangoBojangles
shroomin bango
Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH - FASTER PINNING VIA TEMPERATURE CYCLING [Re: brainwreck]
    #2150869 - 12/02/03 12:17 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I am growing B+ cubenis by Pftek. The jars are currently about 75% colonized. Is the correct stage to perform your proposed temperature cycling?


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