|
Xingu
Stranger

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 932
Loc: NC
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19224404 - 12/03/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
If a friend or family member was literally dieing of starvation, would you give him food if you had more than enough? Is that not compassion? While emotions often involve cognition, and while some supposed displays of compassion are simply pity, sometimes there's no thought or belief involved in the reaction in response to the pain of another, as pain avoidance is a pretty base human instinct, and not helping mitigate pain for those around you often leads to being pained yourself through a variety of mechanisms. Sometimes beliefs, opinions, and judgments occlude and distort compassion into something more resembling pity or outright insult, but that doesn't mean it's a product of those factors. Also, sometimes people take compassion to a self-sacrificing extreme, which is counterproductive. It's pretty difficult to effectively benefit the lives of others when your own well being is shit. Having a balance between concern for the individual and concern for our various collective groups seems to work well, in my experience as well as many others. Test out unfettered self-reliance though, if it speaks to your intuitions, maybe I'm completely off base, or maybe it works for some, but something close to a mix seems optimal for creatures as social as hairless space apes with supercharged brains.
Edited by Xingu (12/03/13 09:18 PM)
|
moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,068
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Xingu] 1
#19224407 - 12/03/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
The cock crows in the early morning; Sadly I see as I rise how worn out I am; I haven't a belt or a shirt. Just the semblance of a robe. My loincloth has no seat, my pants no opening-- On my head are three or five pecks of gray ashes. Originally I intended to practice to help save others; Who would have suspected that instead I would become a fool!
Joshu - 8th century
(oops wrong thread, still kinda applies though so I will leave it.)
Edited by moonrockmushy (12/03/13 09:20 PM)
|
ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2,573
Loc: Hunting Fungi
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: moonrockmushy]
#19224593 - 12/03/13 10:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
|
Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Xingu]
#19224872 - 12/03/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Yes I would help, but not because I have any desire or obligation to help anyone. Helping someone else is one of the biggest traps people get caught in. You can think of me as a cowboy, who rides the trail and does cowboy like activities like herding steers and mending fences because that's what he does, not out of any obligation or cowboy code, but because he like being a cowboy.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Edited by Ellis Dee (12/03/13 11:18 PM)
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,465
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 43 minutes, 19 seconds
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19228007 - 12/04/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ellis Dee said: Compassion is a function of judgmentalism. Lets say there is a girl who is 14 and becomes an unwed mother. People may say, oh that poor unfortunate girl. Well it is not unfortunate, it simply is. It is the beliefs, opinions, and judgments of other people that cause compassion for a person that is simply having their own experience. Their experience is different than yours but its not better or worse. The same with death as well. And that is a function of fear, perhaps the most primal fear that drives almost all people, the fear of no self. And that is just a part of the experience neither good nor bad and I neither value life nor fear death. But the opinions, beliefs, and judgments of people lead them to hold certain ideas that cause them discomfort or suffering or may lead them to have compassion for others due to their own opinions, beliefs, and judgments on things they assign power to to have power over their self.
I'm actually surprised at how close this is to describing how I would see the world--I really think you are just confused on what compassion actually describes--"Lets say there is a girl who is 14 and becomes an unwed mother. People may say, oh that poor unfortunate girl. Well it is not unfortunate, it simply is."--this is not describing a case of compassion, but that of pity--a compassionate response would be to relate to the girl in a way that reduces her suffering--and it isn't given out of some greater sense of right or wrong--the status of being an unwed mother is insignificant to the equation--all that matters is the girls own reaction--reasonable or not, the girls suffering is real to her--and it is out of compassion to this that one tries to lessen suffering.
Because beyond your status on compassion, your philosophy is a close reflection of buddhist ideals--the idea that nothing has any innate sense of 'right' or 'wrong' is true--suffering does not arise from the external object, but from the internal mind--and this way of looking at the world--the duality of self/other, good/bad--is a product of the ignorance that i referred to earlier--the person causes their own suffering, but it is still unnecessary suffering.
The highest act of compassion is to bring the dharma to another, in order that they may understand their own ignorance, and see the world as it truly is--and what you are doing now is exactly the same, attempting to explain that suffering is merely a matter of perspective--but does not exist in its own right--what you are doing, my friend, is an act of compassion--an attempt to liberate another being from suffering.
Quote:
Bill Hicks is the philosopher (stand up comic) I identify with most I guess. The ride is a concept I've taken and ran with. We control our reactions in the game or our reaction to the ride and we can suffer or just enjoy it but we didn't build it or direct it but we're on it and its great while it lasts. If we know its a game or a ride then you stop and compassion becomes silly. Changing our judgments, beliefs, and opinions is all it takes to go from fearful and suffering to happy but no matter what you do on the ride you are on it so you might as well get the best attitude. People are too invested in the illusion, what you might call attachments, and that will make you suffer when you lose your precious delusions. But that's a personal choice. Anyway, watch this short bit I personally identify with and it'll clear up any questions about me and solipsism.
This video as well brings buddhist concepts to mind--the people who are afraid of the ride refers to those who suffer out of ignorance--those who realize it's just a ride and nothing to be afraid of refers to those who have developed an understanding of the causes of suffering--their attempt to show those still afraid of the ride that there is nothing to be afraid of is an act of compassion--even in the face of the angry invested murderers--who, by the way, do not represent compassionate folk but just about the exact opposite.
and it would almost seem that his final speech--his speech with the eyes of fear and love--would also be an impassioned speech towards more compassion, to see all of the world as one--and less closing ourselves off--i'm curious how you relate his final words to your concept of compassion being a negative, better to worry only about your own state--because they seem to contradict each other to me.
--------------------
|
Chowder963
954-867-5309


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 4,768
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#19228121 - 12/04/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I have compassion when I can relate, I don't think its natural to care about people who are that different from you unless they're pathetic, or in some cases nice but with bad luck. Isn't here's so many variables to whether or not I'll feel compassion or not. I think if someone's donating to charities or going out of their way to care then they are trying to prove something to others or to get into a better after life, its not genuine, most people at least, I'm sure there are genuinely nice people out there though, everyone's basically the same though... Just use how you think (only works for some) and put yourself in there shoes based on what you know about them the best you can, boom you now know that person thinks. This only works for some people.
Someone has to have a certain combination of intelligence/niceness/similarity to me for me, ir of course if theyre a complete disadvantage like mental handicap or some other mental/physical impairment. Anyone who cares more than that is strange.
|
Xingu
Stranger

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 932
Loc: NC
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19232950 - 12/05/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ellis Dee said: Yes I would help, but not because I have any desire or obligation to help anyone. Helping someone else is one of the biggest traps people get caught in. You can think of me as a cowboy, who rides the trail and does cowboy like activities like herding steers and mending fences because that's what he does, not out of any obligation or cowboy code, but because he like being a cowboy.
Well put and agreed. It's easy to abuse compassion as a kind of high or in a self-important manner. When it arises as a perfectly natural reaction, though, it seems silly not to let it be expressed or at least fully felt. Unfettered ego can certainly twist compassion into a nasty megalomania of sorts.
|
Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Xingu]
#19234787 - 12/06/13 01:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Compassion is just the reaction to energy, feeling or whatchymacallit that is being sent towards you..
as everything else, one aware may chose what to except or not..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
|
Chairman Meow
Concern Pork


Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 39,658
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world (moved) [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19449157 - 01/20/14 06:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
This thread was moved from The Pub.
Reason: moved by request and for further discussion
|
cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19450238 - 01/20/14 10:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You're argument suggests we don't practice compassion for other beings simply because of the definition of the words?
Conventional things like language do not capture the ultimate essence of being. Part of that essence is the feeling we get when emotionally stirred by others.
|
Dr.Dankhead
Uhh...doctor gonzo?



Registered: 03/29/13
Posts: 5,187
Loc: Breathing down your neck
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19450262 - 01/20/14 10:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ellis Dee said: Assuming that we should be joyful creatures compassion makes no sense. A synonym is to pity or feel bad for others. We should never have those bad feelings, thus compassion is one of the worst traits a human can have. I am announcing that religions and gurus got it wrong. Do not have compassion or pity and live a joyous life instead!!!
compassion is the only thing that separates the good souls from the bad. Especially in radical situations.
Without it, your now my enemy
--------------------
**need a check up?** **im a Doctor**
         i sometimes wish I was a wormy, wiggling all in the cold dirt...tickle tackle pickle dickle think a mackshift thought of broken words broken gears and words of conundrums..I'm not a weiner doctor so take that shit to dr. Gonz free boob inplant consultations.. Photo required
|
cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Dr.Dankhead]
#19450415 - 01/20/14 10:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
How do you know how to separate souls? Why do you separate them? Where do the good ones go? ..And, the bad ones?
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: nicechrisman]
#19450782 - 01/21/14 12:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nicechrisman said: But having compassion for other people makes me feel happy. I don't view it as the same thing as pity. When I can lift others, it lifts me as well. Compassion can ultimately end up feeling a little selfish.
Really depends on how you define selfish, which to me is being stingy. Having a devotion to working on your own consciousness is not at all what I'd call selfish. But you're entirely right in the sense that helping other people get free without adding more mental drama to yourself is a huge test in working on your own consciousness... If you're just free in your own little cave, you're only free in that relative reality, the rest of the world still has a big lock on it. If you can be free in somebody else's then that helps them work through it, that's compassion in my book, and is mutually beneficial. Be free.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
absols
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19451707 - 01/21/14 07:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
compassion is through being one or someone .. which is evil trait will of powers over all else and truth superiority which is in principle impossible so what justify evil to itself will existence as always eternally ..
compassion is through believing that you matter to others unfortunate at least ... so the belief that you are superior .. which is the sin objectively .. you are yourself which is a lot different totally while superiority is to infinite truth value existence through true realities of rights to be free
as a mortal you cant be a source of anything when any is through everything a particular more present value ..
now believing god is a lie ... when you are everyday being through and will all else matters to your physical being .. you cannot believe speculations of some senses in your life .. it is your sense of compassion there totally objectively felt in acting or relating through certain standards to others beings .. it is not like a matter of things that you cant know as bigbang theory or existence creations means and reasons .. it is about the relation to others which is way more clear from you surrounded constantly by so many others
to me, what matter is the relation with else superiority through objective right values so what everything and everyone sense share and need to be always real
so I guess it is also the ways of truth freedom.. to mean the always right or true existence through else freedom values to recognize and support right too
meaning something to do is meaning existence as a finite thing so a thing that cannot be existing really
objective must be always superior it is the only way of existing right
so you can be always a plus right so like still as you are free without having to do constant things to think being well and be then abused and enslaved .. which would be a way to support evil growth of true facts existence
that is how me for instance, would never mean to give to others .. I would give them but without meaning it and I give a lot without ever remembering it nor meaning it .. when it is you, then you know how to do whatever you want without stopping to point it.. you know so being conscious free that act fast like nothing to ever mention..
which also prove how compassion is selfish.. it is like meaning to live through best conscious ways in dealing with others beings of inferior realms
of course when you are an animal, speaking to others nicely is like being superior ... but are you an animal ??? according to the condition yes we are animals possessed by forces.. but according to yourself being conscious ???
still the objective fact of compassion concept is to slavery of senses so nothing to talk about as being value or right existing individual fact
anyway, if compassion was a true value, how god is the opposite since it is the force ..through forcing inferiority to be others conscious, that is very uncompassionate thing to do.. and how all gods don't even talk to each others and keep existing constantly free alone ??
Edited by absols (01/21/14 08:04 AM)
|
Dr.Dankhead
Uhh...doctor gonzo?



Registered: 03/29/13
Posts: 5,187
Loc: Breathing down your neck
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: cez] 1
#19452372 - 01/21/14 11:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
cez said:
1-How do you know how to separate souls? 2-Why do you separate them? 3-Where do the good ones go? 3.5-..And, the bad ones? 
1-you break people open like a coconut, put the good ones in a white bucket, bad in the red.
2- well... I get lonely, and bored..
3-white bucket.
3.5- red bucket..
Any more questions?
--------------------
**need a check up?** **im a Doctor**
         i sometimes wish I was a wormy, wiggling all in the cold dirt...tickle tackle pickle dickle think a mackshift thought of broken words broken gears and words of conundrums..I'm not a weiner doctor so take that shit to dr. Gonz free boob inplant consultations.. Photo required
|
cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Dr.Dankhead]
#19452517 - 01/21/14 11:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
|
DirtyTomFlint
( ಥـْـِـِـِـْಥ)




Registered: 11/26/13
Posts: 1,879
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: cez]
#19452612 - 01/21/14 12:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Reading through this thread, seems to me that the dilemma is solved. The definition of compassion had been misconstrued, simply put.
--------------------
   Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source
|
DrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist



Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: DirtyTomFlint] 1
#19452664 - 01/21/14 12:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Compassion is great because you can never be overloaded with love.
 
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,891
Last seen: 12 seconds
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19454635 - 01/21/14 07:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ellis Dee said: Assuming that we should be joyful creatures compassion makes no sense. A synonym is to pity or feel bad for others. We should never have those bad feelings, thus compassion is one of the worst traits a human can have. I am announcing that religions and gurus got it wrong. Do not have compassion or pity and live a joyous life instead!!!
Maybe your first assumption is baseless. Really I don't see any sign of that being true.
I agree that having compassion sucks tho. Id rather not have it. Feeling compassion for another who is suffering means there is suffering.
|
k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
|
Re: Compassion may be the worst thing in the world [Re: Kickle]
#19455400 - 01/21/14 11:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: Feeling compassion for another who is suffering means there is suffering. 
im not too sure that this is true.
at least it hasn't been true in my experience.
if perhaps you become too attached to the outcome of the situation you could experience suffering.
but i think it's very possible to experience compassion without experiencing suffering
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
|
|