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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Loc: South Florida
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19424633 - 01/15/14 08:15 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Separation of church and state. Grade school is not the place to demythologize the opiating myths of the masses. Surely you are shitting. A teacher acquaintance had a Buddhist book on his desk. A kid asked him what it was. He answered that it was a book on Buddhism, a religion. The next morning before school, the teacher was summoned to the principal's office where an irate parent told the teacher that it was his job and his job alone to teach his child about spiritual matters. My acquaintance explained that he didn't teach anything, but that his student had merely inquired about a book sitting idly on the desk. This teacher had to apologize! BUT...I was pulled into an assistant principal's office to hold hands with some store-front preacher and family, to pray and exorcise the evil that was afflicting one of our students. The boy had sickle-cell anemia and when 'sickling' occurred in his brain, he would become violent. While he was being treated at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, the parents were trying to cover all bases. Prayer meetings in a public school during school hours is clearly in violation of constitutional law, but as long as its a prayer meeting involving the popular myths of the people, administrators turned their heads. A simple book on a desk caused a public censure of a blameless teacher, and the humiliation of an apology to some bigoted fucktard parent.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 day
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: HalfLight]
#19424655 - 01/15/14 08:19 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
TryinToTrip said: Is Jesus, as God incarnate, representative of how humans should strive to be?
Yes.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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HalfLight
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Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 2,322
Loc: Black Flag
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You aren't the OP, but I guess I'll use this hole-poking question anyways.
If we act as Jesus did, and he is (a) God in human flesh, do we not become God as well?
-------------------- dead man walking
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Scarab74
Warminatrix


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 1,554
Loc: Conchs & Coconuts, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: kuntryman]
#19424709 - 01/15/14 08:29 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
kuntryman said: Also known as Jesus. I will share Christ's message with anyone who has an ear to hear it.
Sorry, but I just can't get past OP's Shoomery username. Not to criticize, but it hovers between "vaguely profane" and "sublimely ironic."
Perhaps OP is trying to point the discussion of Christ's "message" in a specific direction? Toward some sort of spiritual dichotomy of innocence and guilt? Or, better, trinity of virgin, mother, crone?
-------------------- ~Scarab74 We are such stuff as dreams are made of. W. Shakespeare - The Tempest
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Separation of church and state. Grade school is not the place to demythologize the opiating myths of the masses. Surely you are shitting. A teacher acquaintance had a Buddhist book on his desk. A kid asked him what it was. He answered that it was a book on Buddhism, a religion. The next morning before school, the teacher was summoned to the principal's office where an irate parent told the teacher that it was his job and his job alone to teach his child about spiritual matters. My acquaintance explained that he didn't teach anything, but that his student had merely inquired about a book sitting idly on the desk. This teacher had to apologize! BUT...I was pulled into an assistant principal's office to hold hands with some store-front preacher and family, to pray and exorcise the evil that was afflicting one of our students. The boy had sickle-cell anemia and when 'sickling' occurred in his brain, he would become violent. While he was being treated at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, the parents were trying to cover all bases. Prayer meetings in a public school during school hours is clearly in violation of constitutional law, but as long as its a prayer meeting involving the popular myths of the people, administrators turned their heads. A simple book on a desk caused a public censure of a blameless teacher, and the humiliation of an apology to some bigoted fucktard parent.
Well, I personally hate that our constitution protects the rights of the ignorant to remain ignorant. If we can teach about science and evolution, we don't need to put the blinders on history and psychology. Your story is something of culture shock, even comparatively to my small Midwest hometown... I suspect the most superstitiously crazy had some incentive to put their kids in a private Christian school. In school, I never really had to deal with them.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa


Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19426094 - 01/16/14 02:57 AM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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I posted a question; what is this message then? No answer was given.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: Icyus]
#19426621 - 01/16/14 07:47 AM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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From what I've seen of the OP in other forums he's trolling. It's always a hoot for me to see everyone take trolls so seriously.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Seems like you joined the Hebrew transliteration of Y'shua with the Greek transliteration of Iesous. At this point of my life I am in agreement with D.M. Murdock in her book Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection. The majority of stories in the NT were lifted almost verbatim from much earlier stories from the Egyptian Coffin and Pyramid Texts. Murdock documents exhaustively, and the book is most certainly worth reading if one has any interest in the construction of the NT wiritings. I also entertain the basic non-historicity of the man in Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy's books of gnostic religion, and the conclusion of theologian-phyician Albert Schweitzer in his 19th century book The Quest for the Historical Jesus, namely that Iesous is a collage of several wisdom teachers. None of these similar conclusions ill-effects my faith and knowledge that the mythos of Iesous is still the paradigm for fully human development.
All religious myths manifest the transcendental factor of human life. The odd thing about people is that (1) each believer thinks that only HIS religious stories are true, and by true, I mean historical, and (2) everyone else's religious stories are 'only' myths. For most people, history = Reality, when at the mystical core of each religion, history is less real than spiritual Reality at best, or a mere dream or illusion which deceives us. At the far extreme is Gnostic thought in which the Creator is like the Blakeian 'Architect' of The Matrix trilogy, and wantonly deceives and enslaves humanity by the illusory nature of creation, alienating us humans from our rightful identity as spiritual beings.
So, no, I do not wish to discuss Iesous any further. Reality is Mystery, and the beliefs of humankind are a dime-a-dozen from which anyone can pick and choose. This does not mean that I do not recognize the Sacred amidst the Profane. I do recognize the Sacred, but it is not open to discussion or debate. 'Beliefs,' on the other hand, are not equal to Reality, and should be eliminated, because no matter how sophisticated they seem, ultimately, all they are is intellectual pablum to keep the ordinary mind tranquilized by dogmatic assent to a simple 'statement' masquerading as Truth. Keep your faith, but throw out your beliefs. As the Third Patriarch of Zen says in The Heart Sutra: "The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences...Do not search for the truth; only cease to hold opinions..."
So do you believe Jesus was a totally fictional character, or that his name was just usurped by the church/NT teachings?
I recently read about the Gospel of Thomas and the introduction to the book broke down how the NT probably has none of Jesus' original teachings, but the implications of the Gospel of Thomas imply a Sage named Jesus did live as almost every statement starts with 'Jesus said'
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
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I like that, that's kind of what I had viewed as well... doubtful of obtaining a true account of his life or realizations along the way... or if he had been born as wise as day. looking at it in that sense makes a lot more sense... mythology passed on with touches and influence along the way... but within there is the possibility of extracting a very similar message to many of the other mythological layouts.... we can be too creative for our own good at times hehe... though I still can't discount anything. Grist grist grist grist Christ Christ christ
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (01/16/14 01:54 PM)
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19428254 - 01/16/14 01:59 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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nice ty for sharing
had wondered if he had a similar more "realistic" life story like the Buddha has been portrayed.
my accounts of his stories are fragmented so I really don't know anything. Maybe that 40 day fast pushed him out of his self heheh
its true though, lots of different interpretations and people living those interpretations... in grained and passed along... like much else
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (01/16/14 01:59 PM)
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: Sse]
#19428490 - 01/16/14 02:48 PM (10 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sse said: nice ty for sharing
had wondered if he had a similar more "realistic" life story like the Buddha has been portrayed.
my accounts of his stories are fragmented so I really don't know anything. Maybe that 40 day fast pushed him out of his self heheh
its true though, lots of different interpretations and people living those interpretations... in grained and passed along... like much else
No, personally I think the only overall pattern that we get from the gospels that approximates some sense of historical veracity is that there was some man who was able to attract a large crowd and a core group of followers, getting him in trouble with authorities. It's just the one thing pervasive thing that pops up again and again, the rest varies wildly.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19428537 - 01/16/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 13 days ago) |
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heheh true, and recalling people with similar traits, can vary greatly as well.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 day
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Re: ask me about Ieshua. [Re: HalfLight]
#19429821 - 01/16/14 07:13 PM (10 years, 13 days ago) |
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Personally? I do not 'believe' that Iesous, if he existed historically, was God 'incarnate.' That doctrine is strictly Johannine, and it colors the Synoptic gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke, but it is NOT their theology. For them, Iesous was 'a man anointed by God' - VERY different. John was probably a Hellenized Jew, and he used concepts that derived from classic Greek mythology, namely, that God (Greek: Zeus, Latin: Deus) could impregnate a mortal woman and produce a demigod - half God, half mortal, like Heracles or Dionysus. The issue of Mary, mother of Iesous being a virgin is due NOT to the Hebrew prophesy in Isaiah 7:14. Matthew the gospel author used the Greek Septuigint, not the Hebrew original to quote the prophesy, so the Hebrew word was 'almah,' young woman. In Hebrew the word for virgin is 'betholah.' Unfortunately, Greek only had one word for both - parthenos. The prophesy was for the Messiah to be born of a young woman in Bethlehem, not a virgin, but th Greek translation or mistranslation created a history of traditions and monasticism. Hebrews didn't write about virgin births, classic Greek mythology did.
Nevertheless, Eastern Orthodox Christian theology takes the idea of theosis very seriously: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_(Eastern_Orthodox_theology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinization_(Christian)
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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