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InvisibleMushmitch
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hydrated lime added to agar..
    #19397364 - 01/10/14 05:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't done this yet.

Will do the next time I pour, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

I have heard of raising ph in agar to prevent bacteria..

I know some species of edibles need different ph lvls to grow so this may only work for certain ones (oysters)..

any comments appreciated...


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Offlineforrest
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: Mushmitch]
    #19397444 - 01/10/14 05:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i think proteins (wich make agar solidify) denature when in very high or low pH, like with heat. so i think it might not work.

did you mean also not to sterilise it?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: forrest]
    #19397467 - 01/10/14 06:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Agar should be neutral or slightly below.  On a petri dish you're trying to get maximum rate of growth.

The answer for bacteria in culture work is sterile procedure.  You would do a disservice by using lime because if it did happen to slow the bacteria which is doubtful, it would only come back to haunt you once the agar is spawned to grains.
RR


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InvisibleMushmitch
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19397486 - 01/10/14 06:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well, it might be a good adapt for getting dirty clones?better than pour hot agar on stuff :laugh:

eh?? Just brainstorming..

Sterile technique is de best.

And yes!  Maybe go lime agar to lime grains/lime sawdust/canegrass.. What do you think about lime grain spawn RogerRabbi?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: Mushmitch]
    #19397723 - 01/10/14 07:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think the same as I told you an hour ago.

Use sterile technique.  Lime has no place in grain spawn or agar.

Pouring hot agar on a bacterial contaminated plate pasteurizes the bacteria, thus allowing the mycelium to crawl up through the new layer to the air above where it can be precisely shaved off the top to a new plate.  It has no comparison to lime which would only impede the mushroom mycelium as it first tries to grow.

I think you're reading too much into lime pasteurization, where large quantities of healthy grain spawn are applied to a substrate which has been pasteurized via high pH.

That's different from asking a new or young culture to dive into a media which is not hospitable.  We use agar to promote rapid growth so we can isolate that way.  Anything which slows down the mycelium on agar is counterproductive.
RR


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19398414 - 01/10/14 11:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

raising the pH in agar seems to be a poor idea, because if it did work it would then allow you to have a sloppy technique and poor sterile procedures which would then eventually become a major problem, you need attention to detail and stick to the basics to become a successful grower - not shortcuts like anti-biotic media and tricks like that


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InvisibleMushmitch
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: solumvita]
    #19399452 - 01/10/14 02:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

well I appreciate the responses, but this is not a shortcut for me I have a flow hood and awesome sterile technique..
I saw something about high ph agar being used in labs.
Just thinking outside of that box.. I know there is room for improvement in mycology. Its so new and im willing to experiment to find new info.


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: Mushmitch]
    #19403129 - 01/11/14 10:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

all right then, you never know these things, maybe your work could lead to a new high pH tolerant strain.


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: solumvita] * 1
    #19404393 - 01/11/14 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You don't want to raise the pH but rather lower it to about pH 4 or 4.5, the theory is that the fungi we are working with will grow at those acidic levels but the unwanted bacteria will not or only very slowly giving you more of a chance to isolate clean material, I have used this when trying to clone wild collected specimens that are very prone to bacterial contamination and it works.

Use Tartaric acid to achieve this pH adjustment, you will need a good pH meter that has been properly calibrated, to reach the desired pH of around 4-4.5 it requires only a very small amount of Tartaric acid so be careful, it pays to experiment with water and the acid to get a feel for how much to use so you don't ruin your agar.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: inski]
    #19411108 - 01/13/14 03:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Inski is right.  You want to lower the pH if anything.

I wouldn't use tartaric acid for adjusting pH though.  Plenty of better options out there.


-FF


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OfflineOICU812
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Re: hydrated lime added to agar.. [Re: fastfred]
    #19421439 - 01/15/14 06:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Inski is right.  You want to lower the pH if anything.

I wouldn't use tartaric acid for adjusting pH though.  Plenty of better options out there.


-FF




Possibly Ascorbic acid.  It and Tartaric are both on the list of allowed substances if you are Organic certified.
(§205.605  Nonagricultural (nonorganic) substances allowed as ingredients in or on processed products labeled as “organic” or “made with organic (specified ingredients or food group(s)).”





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