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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,677
Loc: Norvegr
Last seen: 3 minutes, 21 seconds
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: Nitrogen. What is nitrogen, Alex?
It is not nitrogen. Take a deep breath...
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★★★★★
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: Anglerfish]
#19418093 - 01/14/14 04:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said: Okay. An easy one:
Recent research shows that this certain chemical compound is sequestered by several species of mushrooms in mycorrhizal relationships with trees, helping the trees actually grow faster. Previously it was thought that this process was facilitated through dead plant matter.
Name the chemical.
since the thread is called 'guess that..' its just what i'm gonna do here. carbon! no. plants do carbon nitrogen! no, wait wait! nitrate!?
-------------------- bite my basidiocarp
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TheMaster
PATIENCE


Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 705
Loc: Earth
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#19418327 - 01/14/14 05:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe nitrogen fixation creates ammonium (NH4+), not nitrate (NO3-) ions.
-------------------- "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." Mahatma Gandhi
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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,677
Loc: Norvegr
Last seen: 3 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#19418394 - 01/14/14 05:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RuralAnomaly said: carbon!

It is carbon as in carbon dioxide.
I just saw a documentary on television this evening. I don't usually watch TV but it was a documentary on the CO2 absorbed by boreal (mainly conifer) natural forest. The biggest amount was due to processes involving a diversity of wood dwelling fungi, around 1100 species in norway alone.
Scientists have found out that the amount of carbon storage in boreal forests (wood and soil) are much higher than that of tropical/rain forest. This is partially due to the slow decomposing rate in temperate regions, as opposed to the tropical rain forests.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: Anglerfish]
#19418484 - 01/14/14 05:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was thinking about saying carbon but I figured it isn't a compound but an element, I guess nitrogen isn't either...
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: TheMaster]
#19418579 - 01/14/14 05:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TheMaster said: I believe nitrogen fixation creates ammonium (NH4+), not nitrate (NO3-) ions.
i believe you are right about fixation but thought the question was about what was made more available to the root to make the plant grow, that would be there anyway, just more accessible, - and i admit, i was just guessing over a plate of lasagne but, after you asked... i was looking for info on how it gets converted in soil and apparently its bacteria doing that too this spoke a bit about the nitrogen from a fertilizer perspective
http://extension.psu.edu/agronomy-guide/cm/sec2/sec28
i guess i'll look into the nitrogen cycle one of these days
and technically maynard may be right! he gets to go! (plz, i'm kinda busy right now)
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#19418955 - 01/14/14 06:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok this is a chemical that might be given to you if you show up at an ER having ingested a bit too much of a certain mushroom (and they're aware of it) [i have no knowledge of emergency meds or procedures, its just a hint, i think, eh] what is the mushroom? and if you're feeling ambitious and informative perhaps a (very) short discussion of why it works, and why/how the mushroom 'works'
 edit: well that image sux here's another
Edited by RuralAnomaly (01/14/14 06:56 PM)
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raceme
Neither D nor L


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 663
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
#19419306 - 01/14/14 07:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That is atropine, named for the plant from which it was first isolated, Atropa belladonna, Deadly Nightshade. It works to counteract the effects of muscarine, making it useful if you've had too many Amanita muscarias, or many Clitocybes, Inocybes, and Mycenas (I think).
Muscarine works by binding to, and activating, neural receptors called muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. Normally these receptors interact with acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter, but muscarine overloads them, causing the negative symptoms associated with eating A. muscaria. Atropine binds to the same receptors, but does not activate them, physically blocking the muscarine from binding.
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: raceme]
#19419322 - 01/14/14 07:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow. That is cool!
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: raceme]
#19419333 - 01/14/14 07:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
raceme said: That is atropine, named for the plant from which it was first isolated, Atropa belladonna, Deadly Nightshade. It works to counteract the effects of muscarine, making it useful if you've had too many Amanita muscarias, or many Clitocybes, Inocybes, and Mycenas (I think).
Muscarine works by binding to, and activating, neural receptors called muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. Normally these receptors interact with acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter, but muscarine overloads them, causing the negative symptoms associated with eating A. muscaria. Atropine binds to the same receptors, but does not activate them, physically blocking the muscarine from binding.
rock on dude! perfect
batter up!
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raceme
Neither D nor L


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 663
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: The Lightning]
#19419356 - 01/14/14 07:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Next one:

This is the active compound in an extract that is used as a treatment for a different sort of mushroom.
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: raceme]
#19419437 - 01/14/14 08:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
raceme said: a different sort of mushroom.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: raceme]
#19419447 - 01/14/14 08:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Silybum marianum, milk thistle. Silybin, Silibinin whatever it's called?
Is it used to treat amatoxins poisoning?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
Edited by maynardjameskeenan (01/14/14 08:25 PM)
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raceme
Neither D nor L


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 663
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Bingo!
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: raceme]
#19419552 - 01/14/14 08:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
raceme said: Bingo! 
Awesomeness!

"10 mg of ******* were found to be about as psychoactive as a similar amount of psilocybin".
 This is surly to give it away...
Edited by maynardjameskeenan (01/14/14 08:43 PM)
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Remember to add a hint!
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: The Lightning]
#19419664 - 01/14/14 09:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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before its too far out of mind, i just found this article regarding carbon/nitrogen/mycorrhizal stuff
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140108133257.htm
i found it informative, perhaps ya'll might too
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MachineElf1.618
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine



Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1,911
Loc: Miðgarðr
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:
raceme said: Bingo! 
Awesomeness!

"10 mg of ******* were found to be about as psychoactive as a similar amount of psilocybin".
 This is surly to give it away... 
That is Norbeocystin found in pretty much all psilocybin containing mushrooms
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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MachineElf1.618
4-PO-Dimethyltryptamine



Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1,911
Loc: Miðgarðr
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Re: Guess That Fungi/Mushroom Chemical!! [Re: raceme]
#19421210 - 01/15/14 04:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Instead of posting a new compound, I'll write a quick little guide in organic chemistry that most of you might find useful in figuring out some of these compounds. I know raceme did a guide too but I'm gonna add to it. Raceme if you don't mind I'll quote your guide here. I'm also gonna give up my turn and let someone else post a chemical.
You guys can agree this thread has been a learning experience so might as well continue the trend. For people new to O-chem I'll make this quite brief and easy to understand. Just know there is so much background info that I'm gonna skip through, there is no way I can write a whole year of O-chem in one sitting. This won't include chemical reactions or be technical in anyway and I'm doing this so you can start seeing patterns in the molecules being shown to you and so you can also learn some nomenclature. For the people that know O-chem, correct me if I make any mistakes and please add anything else that you think is important. I'll also use some of the chemicals posted on this thread as examples.
1) This is probably the number one fact you MUST know, organic compounds all have a Carbon in it. Second most important fact is that carbon is key because it is most stable when it has 8 electrons filled (or contribute 4 bonds). It can bind to its self and form long carbon chains, this allows complex molecular structures. Third, carbon will bond to various elements such as O, N, P, C, K, Cl, S, and e.t.c. Each of these elements modifies carbon and gives it differ nt chemical functions. Therefore, carbon is a boss. You probably think this is stupid but you'd be surprised how many people don't know this.
2) Raceme posted this guide earlier and its good to learn about lewis diagram and skeletal structures. It's essential for what I'm talking about.
Quote:
raceme said: Here's a brief tutorial for the uninitiated on how to interpret the chemical structures posted in this thread.
Here are several representations of ethanol, the alcohol which we drink:

The representation on the left is called the Lewis diagram of the molecule. In this representation, each atom is represented by its atomic symbol (C for carbon, H for hydrogen, O for oxygen, etc.), while each bond is represented by a line between the two bonded atoms (here a bond is a pair of electrons shared by two atoms).
The representation on the bottom right is called a ball-and-stick model. Here each atom is represented by a color-coded ball (black for carbon, gray for hydrogen, red for oxygen, etc.), while each bond is represented by a stick stretching from one ball to another.
The representation on the top right is called a space-filling model. Here, each atom is represented as a color-coded sphere, while each bonded is represented by an overlap between between two spheres. The relative size of the spheres also represents the relative size of the atoms.
Another representation commonly used for organic compounds is the skeletal formula. Here is the skeletal formula for ethanol:

Skeletal formulas are much sparer than other representations. In them, bonds are represented by lines, though not all bonds are explicitly shown (the oxygen-to-hydrogen bond that was shown in the Lewis diagram as O–H is instead implied by OH). Unless otherwise specified by a different atomic symbol, atoms at the ends or intersections of bonds (lines) are assumed to be carbons, which are not explicitly written in (in the diagram above, there are two carbons: one at the very left, and one at the center at the intersection of the two lines (bonds)). Hydrogen that are bonded to carbons are almost always omitted entirely, and it is assumed that each carbon has enough hydrogen bonded to it to give it a total of 4 bonds. For example, butane is represented as:
 but its Lewis structure, showing the hydrogens and carbons explicitly is:

Hope this helps, and feel free to ask questions!

3) Major Classes Of Organic Compounds
I. Hydrocarbons
Alkane: These are the most basic organic compounds. They consist of 1 or more carbons that can form a chain. These are methane(1), ethane(2), propane(3), butane(4), pentane(5) and so on. For example this is heptane, it has 7 carbons forming a chain.

It is very important you know that those carbons really do have hydrogen bound to them, this is actually why it is called a hydrocarbon. Remember that carbon really likes to have 4 bonds, therefore each of these carbons has 2 Hydrogen bound except for the terminal carbons. Keep in mind one hydrogen can only share 1 electron therefore it can only bind once. Heptane really should look like this but by convention the hydrogen are left out of the skeletal structure.
Alkenes and Alkynes: They are both 2 differ nt classes and they are similar to hydrocarbons. However, in an alkene carbons share 2 bond: H2C=CH2. Carbons in alkynes share 3 bonds H2C≡CH2. Alkanes, Alkenes, and Alkynes dont always need to have hydrogen they can get many modifications. Whenever you see these R's it means a hydrogen is substituted with a alkyl or aryl group. If you ever see -X those are ions like Cl-. More on Functional groups later.

II. Aromatic and cyclic compounds Probably the best known cyclic compound is the 6 carbon ring benzene. Again notice that in the skeletal diagram hydrogen aren't there we have to assume they are.

Cyclo- is added to the beginning of the name to indicate it is cyclic. Propane, butane, and hexane are in the name.

There are also many differ nt types of cyclic compounds. Remember you can always add any functional group to a carbon.


III. Alcohols and Phenols Alcohols are hydrocarbon chains with a -OH function group, this is also called a hydroxyl group, attached to a carbon. The best known alcohol is ethanol. Phenols are aromatic rings with a hydroxyl group attached. This would be a good time to mention that Oxygen is most stable when it has two bonds R'-O-H.


IV. Ether These are compounds tht connect to alkyl or aryl groups and it looks like this R-O-R'. If you've ever heard of 5-MeO-DMT you would be happy to know that there is an ether group there. MeO stands for methoxy and and it is a type of ether functional group.

V. Ketones This is best identified by a carbonyl group C=O, whose carbon is attached to 2 other carbons or R-CO-R. Check out Atromentin.

VI. Aldehyde Very si millar to ketone except the carbon has an H. i.e. R-CO-H. This is D-glucose, can u spot the aldehyde?

VII. Carboxylic Acid This also contains a carbonyl group(C=O)and a hydroxyl group(-OH)attached to the carbon. The formula is R-COOH. Carboxylic acid is a very important component of the amino acid. This is Tryptophan.

VIII. Ester and Lactone An ester is essentially ether (R-O-R') combined with a carbonyl (C=O)to make R-O-CO-R'. A lactone is a cyclic ester. The chemical below is xylarone, we might as well should start filling in what we know too.

IX. Amines and Amides Now we'll go into some nitrogen containing groups. Nitrogen is most stable when it can form 3 bonds. Amines consist of a nitrogen bound to 2 hydrogen or 2 alkyl and an alkyl group R-NH2. Amides are a mix of amine(-NH2)with a carbonyl(C=O) or R-CO-NH2. This is Lysergic Acid Amide (LSA) can you spot the amide?

X.Phosphate This is one of the few phosphorus containing groups. PO4 and it is very negatively charged. Phosphate is especially important because quite frankly we would not be alive without it. ATP is our life energy and it contains 3 phosphates. Ok This pic is psilocybin. The Phosphate should be obvious but what I want to point out is the negative charge on the phosphate and the positive charge on the amine. This is called a zwitterion.

XI. Thiols, Sulfides, disulfides, and sulfoxides These are Sulfur containing groups. Sulfur doesn't care who it bonds with or how many bond to make its just starving for electrons. The respective formulas are R-S-H, R-S-R', R-S-S-R', and R-SO-R'. Keep in mind sulfoxide has a carbony(C=O). I don't care much about these to post a pic but I think you can visualize it.
Ok that should be it for now, I hope you found it interesting and not overwhelmingly long. Let me know if you have any questions or find mistakes.
Edited by MachineElf1.618 (01/16/14 01:28 AM)
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