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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Very young trichocereus peruvians
    #19394018 - 01/09/14 02:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hello,

I got some Peruvian Torch seeds three weeks ago and germinated three for a probe. I used cacti soil mix which I got with cacti, and put the grit on the top as told by instructions provided. They are now about 1 centimeter high, very thin and light green in color. After few days they germinated, and now they are still in a ziplock bag I had put them to in the beginning. I store them in my room where I have 21'C (70 F) during day and move them to the other room so the temperature at nights always stays at least 20'C (68 F). Is this OK during the winter? Every week I add small sip of minimum distilled water to keep the humidity at some level as I had read somewhere. Do they really need that humidity during this phase of growth and do they need watering at all now? I expect to get some cool white LED panel in a matter of days, so I plan to put them under. Please advice me if I make any mistakes. Thank you in advance.


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Invisibleverbage
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19394631 - 01/09/14 05:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I would make it hotter during the day.  70 farenheit seems low to me.  That seems more like an ideal night time temp.
Yes on needing humidity. 


Edited by verbage (01/09/14 05:02 PM)


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Offlinehookahhead
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: verbage]
    #19394710 - 01/09/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think your off to a great start Luther, and welcome to our WONDERFUL (FULL OF WONDER) Forum.  You seem to taking appropriate care of your new sprouts, just be careful not to baby them.  Your temperature is probably fine, but they would enjoy another 5-10 degrees.  I don't advise you use a heating mat for this however, because you might cook them :mad2:.  If you start to grow some more seedlings, perskiopsis, or grafts you will probably want to supplement with a decently priced, nice warm wide spectrum florescent.  Take some time to read through several the pages of information here, I think you'll find all the information you need on caring for your children. :wink:


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: hookahhead]
    #19397532 - 01/10/14 06:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you :-), I'll read on as soon as I can.
Can I maybe put my babies in my growbox where I have 600W MH lamp and temperature range between 70F when lights are off and 77F when on. Of course, I would protect cactis using some sort of shade? Or maybe put them into shrooms incubator, where I have 23 degrees celsius and more than 90% humidity inside?


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OfflineRauhfasertapete
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19397576 - 01/10/14 07:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have a similar problem with getting my seedlings and grafts over the winter: too less light and too low temperatures. Also, germination rates increase with proper lighting. So I´ve read a bit about those LED grow lamps, as they would be pretty fine for a small chamber. But they are said to be not a good choice as plant lights, as the spectrum is usually not optimal for photosynthesis. Even those LEDs sold as plant lights are said to be just a ripoff. However, I only got some unverified information from the internet. Is there maybe any hemp grower or anyone with some deeper experience in the subject?


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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: Rauhfasertapete]
    #19401913 - 01/11/14 12:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



Outside on a table gets minor morning sun, in a ziplock baggie to maintain humidity for a few months. Thats all the attention i give them. That pic is kinda old they have tripled in size.


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: semaphore]
    #19402068 - 01/11/14 01:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What hookahhead said..
Obtain a heating mat and 24hour timer, they're cheap. Pet stores sell those heating mats and they can be cheaper than plant stores. Timer are only worth of few bucks.

I have old candy box I transfer to seedling tray, It have 4-5cm layer of coco coir, pumicide rocks and perlite as growing medium the tray is just standing at top of heating mat. Day time temperatures at +30-40C or so and night time +17-20C are doing wonders to germination rate and later on your seedlings..

Hot days, seedlings tolerate long time humid conditions and moist soil without root rot, also temperature changes from hot days to cool night are one thing you would not want to skip what comes to cacti seedlings, they're less prone to rot with that way.. I have experienced lots of rotting and loss of big amount of seedlings without extra heating and always was constant same temperature.. Germination rate was low and root rotting of seedlings was very high.

After I started to "mimic" nature by giving hot day and cool night(room temps are ok) seedlings tolerate more water, grow faster, germinate better and so on..

Cheapest way in my country to obtain heating mat and timer needs only 15€ money. And it's worth it. You don't need actual light if you use windowsill light for cactus and use heating mat on when it's day time.:yesnod:

There is my candy box cheap growing setup, atm 13/11hour day/night with timer.

Pics are taken at 31st day of December.
Container will capture heat and humidity and air circulation works with holes at top of tray. Hot air always go up and cause passive air circulation. I never use full closed seedling box or tray. From day one when I start germinating I use tray with holes to ensure air circulation, but not so big holes humidity decrease too much.

Best and fast results I have got with day time heat and night time cool period. Also as I said it will increase humidity, and you can let surface soil dry without causing damage to seedlings, then water again and see do there come new sprouts.

Quote:

semaphore said:


Outside on a table gets minor morning sun, in a ziplock baggie to maintain humidity for a few months. Thats all the attention i give them. That pic is kinda old they have tripled in size.




Day light and occasional sun makes wonders to seedlings!

I have experience about fluoro lights, I used them over year, moved trichs to windowsill where they receive occasional evening sun, they fatten up fast and I realize artificial lights isn't just perfect way long time for trichs.

Nice beautiful seedlings you have there! :thumbup:


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/11/14 01:56 AM)


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19402578 - 01/11/14 06:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for your answers :smile:
Hey, I have set up an incubator for mushroom cultivation which consists of two transparent plastic containers: the above container has some holes drilled with sintetic cotton to maintain humidity and passive air flow, where I keep humidity at more than 90%. I have set up a heating device (10W aquarium heater) and put it beneath in the container with water which warms the above container to some 23'C.

Can I use this one or to set up something different? I don't see how could I put the cacti outside or on windowsill because we don't heat the whole day, especially not in the morning when the sun isn't too strong, so the cacti would froze. Temps outside are around 14'C now. But, I would be happier to provide the natural sunlight to my cactis.


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19402835 - 01/11/14 08:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have 10wattage heater to one of my "mini-greenhouse"

Just add a seedling pot above heater and time your heater with 24hour cheap timer.. Day time on, night time off..

It works if you use heating 12/12hours or 14/10hours and keep seedling tray at windowsill or under lights.


I have this kind of "greenhouse" with 10wattage heating.. works good for seedlings.

I'm not keep my seedling trays just above the heater.. Enough growing medium between plants and heating mat doesn't heat so much..

Anyway, mini-greenhouse are about 1,5cm above heater, it have "legs" to keep it away from it.

Most my heating mats are from pet stores, water proof heating mats.

Even you have more than 12hour day light from windowsill or light, it does't matter if you keep 12/12hour timing to your heater.. IF you want you can use 14-16hour per day heating but 12/12 on/off should work ok.. Just keep heating on when it's light, no matter if light are from window or from artificial lights.

It helps lots to endure your plants the humid and moist environment if you heat and capture the heat with dome and build some passive air flow with holes..

You can just imagine something easy.. It's not hard, just don't use heating 24hours on.. Only half of the day or 16hour.. but 12/12 is enough, if you have some "greenhouse"-like container what capture heat, it will stay inside the container anyway some time.

I have now 13/11hour timing.. 11hours off. Seedlings are doing fine and good.. Also I open the containers almost every day and sometimes take the cap off from them to let plants have some dry air.. But without transparent "ceiling" or bag heat and humidity doesn't capture so easily.

Mushroom container and heating pad are just fine a long as heating is controlled to cause similar temperatures likes in natural habitat.. Hot days, cool nights..

Even you have 16/8hour lights, you can use 12, 13, 14hour heating and rest of the time off.. Use your imagination to make environment with every day rising temperatures and every night decreasing.. :thumbup:

Heat mats helps lots of seedlings, they grow faster, tolerate more humidity and moist soil without rotting.. Later on you can take bag/cap away and use heating and slowly adjust your plants to dry air.. I have now one ~7months and ~19-20months old peyote pot above heating mat but they are not anymore inside any humid or heat chamber. I just control day/night heat cycle for them. I use same timer for lights and heating mats.

And do not give direct sunlight to your plants unless they are not harden off enough to handle the light..

Maybe 30-50minute direct sun doesn't cause harm but I would not use direct sun..

If you want to get started, sow seeds, used artificial lights and when plants are +6months, you can introduce them some sun but they doesn't necessary need anymore heating from below at that age, if they are used to watering periods of dry and moist cycle.

Basically trichocereus are ready to some occasional sun at age of 6-8months if they're grown with heat mats and adjusted to dry and wet periods, at 12months of age, trichos basically should be introduced to stronger light and sun is good opinion.. It doesn't matter how strong the light is, it matters how long you give direct sun for your plants..

But from day one to first months, they will do under small light cfl bulb or fluoro tubes and no need direct sun light.. I would say max 1year under fluoro tubes or cfl for trichocereus, then you should move them to have some sun, maybe first with some shade cloth and after few weeks when they have more darker green coloration, give direct sun at windowsill if possible..

I have given direct sun for 2month old peyote plants but sun shines to tray only 15minutes.. But it dry the surface of soil very fast.. Still plants doesn't show sign of sunburns, it's so short time.. I don't suggest to start with strong light, as I said after 6-12months(depends how fast you can grow your plants) they are ready to have occasional sun at windowsill.. Almost any species of cacti will... You will see if they are pale green, they doesn't tolerate so much sun, if they are going to darker green, more sun they can tolerate..

Outdoors I don't suggest to add any plants before they are age of 2 or 3 years, and then also not long time of sun also.. Occasional direct sun will harden off your plants easily but as easily you can cause sunburn for them.. Color will tell you do your plants suffer dehydration, too much light or too less light.. Over watering is obvious, seedlings die to root rot easily. But hot day time helps cacti seedling to endure moist soil longer.


--------------------


Edited by intelligentlife (01/11/14 09:08 AM)


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19403680 - 01/11/14 12:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Oh man,these are cool!



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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: KBG1977]
    #19403724 - 01/11/14 12:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KBG1977 said:
Oh man,these are cool!





I second that. :highfive:


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: ferrel_human]
    #19406821 - 01/12/14 03:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Very cool, I like the way you did it! :-)
One more thing: how much water do you give your seedlings in the first months and how often?
Also, I expect to get the LED panel, 6500K cool white spectrum, in a matter of days - for my shrooms - have you ever tried growing with such a light and can you recommend it?


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OfflineRauhfasertapete
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19406906 - 01/12/14 04:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I doubt if they can really grow well under that kind of light. But I´d propose to try out if it works for triggering the germination of the seeds: Not recessarily as a source of energy for photosynthesis, but just as a signal for the seed to start sprouting.


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Offlinesemaphore
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19406953 - 01/12/14 05:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luther7hrol said:
Very cool, I like the way you did it! :-)
One more thing: how much water do you give your seedlings in the first months and how often?
Also, I expect to get the LED panel, 6500K cool white spectrum, in a matter of days - for my shrooms - have you ever tried growing with such a light and can you recommend it?




The first year the seedlings are going to be tiny. Then they will start growing faster. But you're still in  for a long wait.

Do you live in some super cold climate?


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: semaphore]
    #19406980 - 01/12/14 05:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Basically any kind of lights are good for young plants under 12months..

After that some sun would be good, if not direct sun I suggest to use even shade cloth to harden plants to strong light.

Ofc it depends where you are planning to keep your plants over their life time.

If you want to keep them in closet, just grow them under lights. If you want to keep them at windowsill, you should harden the plants to light after 6-12months.. Depends on species and growth rate of species..

I basically never water my seedlings, just make sure I have very moist soil and sow seeds,

First watering I can do with small water spray but not much.. Trichs and also lophs can basically start to take drought periods at age of 2-3months.. So first good watering are enough, then let surface of soil dry and moist water to surface again.. do this only if you have hot day temps for seedlings.. If you don't have, don't water yet when surface of soil dries.. You can wait and just look what seedlings look like.

If they starts t shrink and go purple, it's last time to water them but even 2month old trichs can endure 2-3weeks of drought and plump up after watering..

They are desert plants anyway.. Water is far less critical element for these plants to worry even with seedlings than drought and air circulation.

Excess drought are far way more forgiving way to keep your seedlings alive than excess water.. Keep that in mind and you can keep your seedlings alive without rot nor mold.

Moss along seedlings doesn't matter much.. But mold are bad. Some dry/moist periods very early reduce change your seedlings can get mold an die for it.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: semaphore]
    #19410937 - 01/13/14 02:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

semaphore said:

The first year the seedlings are going to be tiny. Then they will start growing faster. But you're still in  for a long wait.

Do you live in some super cold climate?




No, it's not super cold, I live in mediterranean climate zone, only during winters tends to be cold, but this winter is not so cold though.

Thank you very much for your answers. I watered cactis every second day in the first week or two, and then stopped, just checking if the soil is moist at minimum and that I can see some humidity in the ziplock bag "windows".

I think I will do my cactis under LED panel after it arrives, and then, after they are 6 months old, like intelligentlife said, put them to windowsill under some kinda shade.


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OfflineRauhfasertapete
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19411082 - 01/13/14 03:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

trichocereus are very easy to graft on pereskiopsis when they are about 3 to 4mm in diameter. I would recommend to try that in spring, then they will grow about 3 times as fast as the selfrooted seedlings during summer. its easy.


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: Rauhfasertapete]
    #19412527 - 01/13/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Trichs are actually from more humid rainy areas,and can require more humidity,and more water/nutrients than your average desert dwelling cacti.Here is a pic of them in their natural habitat,which is far from dry desert.



I just thought I'd throw that in,and they are very adaptable,and can thrive in lots of different environments,I've found:grin:


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: KBG1977]
    #19412611 - 01/13/14 02:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This makes me want to get into it. I've been contemplating doing so for a while.

Is it worth it to start from seed though?

Or would it be easier to just keep growing/chopping/rerooting a couple of logs?


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Very young trichocereus peruvians [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19412616 - 01/13/14 02:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Seeds are fun,and let you know you've accomplished something special,because you grew them yourself:thumbup:Plus they grow super duper fast!


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