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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide?
#19409006 - 01/12/14 04:16 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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We have time tested Trusted Cultivators, Identifiers, why not Guides?
In the Psychedelic Experience forum there is always freshies asking about dosage and what to expect for their first time use. Why not tag certain people as trusted guides? Do we not have a basic universal understanding of how to set someone up with the best chances of having a positive, fruitful time. Set & setting. It seems to me, that randoms are giving random advice to freshies in a chaotic matter way to often. Should we not award shamanic guides that have proven to give solid advice over and over again with a entheogenic guide tag? Has this community not evolved enough yet to have solid virtual guides? Guides talking, learning, and competing with other guides, won't that surely boost community enlightenment?
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409124 - 01/12/14 04:46 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I have had this thought before but I don't recall if I shared it.
Guiding is subjective... cultivation and identification, not so much. That is the main problem from where I sit.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Eclipse3130
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Rose]
#19409141 - 01/12/14 04:49 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Following a guide is basically copying what someone else did. Cultivation and ID are facts, can't have faulty facts going out to people. "Made by a trusted guide creator" really doesn't say much besides that the guide will probably have a high success rate, it's just the way of doing things and I think it should evolve within the community
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 860
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Rose]
#19409166 - 01/12/14 04:56 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: I have had this thought before but I don't recall if I shared it.
Guiding is subjective... cultivation and identification, not so much. That is the main problem from where I sit.
True.
But are there not some definitive s that we (as a community) could democratically agree on, that would be doing better for OUR community than we are doing now? If you are new to the entheogenic experience, or just new in general (high school kid)but you think these drugs are hedonistic like dope, coke, etc. You may not realize its a bad idea to take a 1/4 of mushrooms at a house party, where your girlfriend is possibly cheating on you, and your new friends are stealing buds out of your headie jar. When a trusted guide could easily tell you SET & SETTING is key. Sit by a campfire with the people you love and know most in the world with a positive state of mind. These are not pleasure seeking, mind numbing, hedonistic drugs. They WILL slap you in the face and teach you something. Is that what your looking for kid? Is that what your ready for?
To me, that's universal
We gotta start somewhere
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
Edited by Hashbuble (01/12/14 05:13 PM)
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ImFukNCLUELESS
I SPIT ON PEOPLE


Registered: 11/19/12
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409199 - 01/12/14 05:05 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I like the idea i read a post the other day of someone trying tell another member that ayahuasca wasnt intense and with people misinforming people like that it could end real bad
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how to pass a drug test FOO MAN'S WBS TEK damions5050's coir tek DONATE TO THE "IM FUCKING BROKE FUND" 1PtqhURaxtCpGpeUBNqeZi7XnmKwWe8WWf "my girl said it's OK to have a little penis I prefer she didnt have a penis at all"-prisoner#1
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mapleleafmarijuana
Archaeotek Magos



Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Rose]
#19409252 - 01/12/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Guiding is subjective...
-------------------- Vinegar Tom stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
#19409304 - 01/12/14 05:25 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
mapleleafmarijuana said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Guiding is subjective...
I get it.
What's more damaging?
Doing something?
Doing nothing?
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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mapleleafmarijuana
Archaeotek Magos



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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409393 - 01/12/14 05:46 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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the site as it is is doing nothing? theres a psychedelic drug forum solely dedicated to it so you can gain collective advice from a community of peers. there's a huge amount of guidance already written on the net and the more famous people like timothy leary and Ram dass were merely rewording ancient cultural scriptures that aren't from a single source, you can look to a place like say india and see there inherent corruption placing trust in others and letting others structure your path
you can become skilled in knowledge in something like cultivation, the results are measurable. with something subjective like being a 'guide' you can't measure it and if it becomes something only certain people can do or who are given extra trust, it becomes something that will go to people's heads
-------------------- Vinegar Tom stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!
Edited by mapleleafmarijuana (01/12/14 05:47 PM)
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Hashbuble
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
#19409449 - 01/12/14 05:57 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
mapleleafmarijuana said: the site as it is is doing nothing? theres a psychedelic drug forum solely dedicated to it so you can gain collective advice from a community of peers. there's a huge amount of guidance already written on the net and the more famous people like timothy leary and Ram dass were merely rewording ancient cultural scriptures that aren't from a single source, you can look to a place like say india and see there inherent corruption placing trust in others and letting others structure your path
you can become skilled in knowledge in something like cultivation, the results are measurable. with something subjective like being a 'guide' you can't measure it and if it becomes something only certain people can do or who are given extra trust, it becomes something that will go to people's heads
ego can be difficult to manage.
How about giving trusted guides a rating system (like the trade and general rating system here) but separate from the regular Shroomery rating system. A rating system just for trusted guides. If a guide helps you, you may rate them and explain why you rated them that way, and how they helped you. Would this not increase the competitive materialistic drive for higher knowledge?
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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mapleleafmarijuana
Archaeotek Magos



Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409538 - 01/12/14 06:20 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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that's why there are general ratings, so you can specify why you feel the person deserves the rating and so it can include anything from any of the subforums topics.
relationships, money matters, home improvement etc.
-------------------- Vinegar Tom stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 860
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
#19409568 - 01/12/14 06:28 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
mapleleafmarijuana said: that's why there are general ratings, so you can specify why you feel the person deserves the rating and so it can include anything from any of the subforums topics.
relationships, money matters, home improvement etc.
And yes, we could have a guide for each of of those individual topics. A professional in each topic would be nice. Let's stay focused though, I mean this is the Shroomery. I think on this web site, the Psyhedelic Experience is a priority, and trumps other topics mentioned.
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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mapleleafmarijuana
Archaeotek Magos



Registered: 03/08/12
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409785 - 01/12/14 07:28 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hashbuble said:
Quote:
mapleleafmarijuana said: that's why there are general ratings, so you can specify why you feel the person deserves the rating and so it can include anything from any of the subforums topics.
relationships, money matters, home improvement etc.
And yes, we could have a guide for each of of those individual topics. A professional in each topic would be nice. Let's stay focused though, I mean this is the Shroomery. I think on this web site, the Psyhedelic Experience is a priority, and trumps other topics mentioned.
on the shroomery all things mushroom reign king. not even necessarily psychedelic mushroom related so the psychedelic experience isn't key
-------------------- Vinegar Tom stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
#19409866 - 01/12/14 07:49 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
mapleleafmarijuana said:
Quote:
Hashbuble said:
Quote:
mapleleafmarijuana said: that's why there are general ratings, so you can specify why you feel the person deserves the rating and so it can include anything from any of the subforums topics.
relationships, money matters, home improvement etc.
And yes, we could have a guide for each of of those individual topics. A professional in each topic would be nice. Let's stay focused though, I mean this is the Shroomery. I think on this web site, the Psyhedelic Experience is a priority, and trumps other topics mentioned.
on the shroomery all things mushroom reign king. not even necessarily psychedelic mushroom related so the psychedelic experience isn't key
Yes this is a mushroom website. We already have a tag for (Trusted Cultivator)
We already have a tag for (Trusted Identifier)
What is logically next?
What subject do you think should be the next PRIORITY tag should be?
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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mapleleafmarijuana
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409897 - 01/12/14 07:57 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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i don't think another is key. whoever programs the site might think something similar since it hasn't been added
-------------------- Vinegar Tom stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!
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Hashbuble
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
#19409921 - 01/12/14 08:03 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I don't think another is KEY either.
I do think we should have that new tag though.
Even if it helps out just 1 poor, lost, young, tripping kid (Like I use to be) somewhere on this planet, it's worth it!
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19409954 - 01/12/14 08:11 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hashbuble said: In the Psychedelic Experience forum there is always freshies asking about dosage and what to expect for their first time use. Why not tag certain people as trusted guides? Do we not have a basic universal understanding of how to set someone up with the best chances of having a positive, fruitful time. Set & setting. It seems to me, that randoms are giving random advice to freshies in a chaotic matter way to often. Should we not award shamanic guides that have proven to give solid advice over and over again with a entheogenic guide tag? Has this community not evolved enough yet to have solid virtual guides? Guides talking, learning, and competing with other guides, won't that surely boost community enlightenment?
No, we don't. You can give any advice you like but some poor dumbshit will always get it wrong. Who wants that on their conscience? 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19410003 - 01/12/14 08:24 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Hashbuble said: In the Psychedelic Experience forum there is always freshies asking about dosage and what to expect for their first time use. Why not tag certain people as trusted guides? Do we not have a basic universal understanding of how to set someone up with the best chances of having a positive, fruitful time. Set & setting. It seems to me, that randoms are giving random advice to freshies in a chaotic matter way to often. Should we not award shamanic guides that have proven to give solid advice over and over again with a entheogenic guide tag? Has this community not evolved enough yet to have solid virtual guides? Guides talking, learning, and competing with other guides, won't that surely boost community enlightenment?
No, we don't. You can give any advice you like but some poor dumbshit will always get it wrong. Who wants that on their conscience? 
PS
Primal,
Do you not believe that entheogenic use should have a guide?
Shamans in the amazon jungle have a lineage of knowledge past from father to son, mother to daughter, for thousands and thousands of years. This knowledge comes from their ancient past experiences. These shamans, these guides are essential to the trip. In this civilization are knowledge of these substances is relatively new. We need to make sure these substances stay sacred. To keep them sacred we need a basic understanding of what they are for, and how to use and respect theses substances, and thats why knowledge should be shared.
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19410104 - 01/12/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Hash, PS and many others have guided countless newbs here.
I think guiding someone, even online, is one of the most rewarding experiences one can have. Sometimes, it beats tripping yourself. But man, guiding is a LOT of trial and error.
The problem is, by adding a TRUSTED tag, the Shroomery is kind of endorsing that person. When it comes to subjective things, if something goes wrong, it could become a liability issue of a trusted guide was at the helm.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Rose]
#19410163 - 01/12/14 08:58 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Hash, PS and many others have guided countless newbs here.
I think guiding someone, even online, is one of the most rewarding experiences one can have. Sometimes, it beats tripping yourself. But man, guiding is a LOT of trial and error.
The problem is, by adding a TRUSTED tag, the Shroomery is kind of endorsing that person. When it comes to subjective things, if something goes wrong, it could become a liability issue of a trusted guide was at the helm.
Well put Cervantes, and I do understand that.
Like I said earlier "we have to start somewhere". Maybe we are not ready yet.
I purpose a shamanic beta test:
The tagged "Trusted Guide" could be a bit different than the "Trusted Cultivator" and the "Trusted Identifier" they could have a trusted guide rating system, like a level that fluctuates back and forth depending on positive and negative ratings. I'd call it an inconsistent constant and no doubt some people would rise through the ranks depending on democratic, majority, favoritism. Like Workman is to hybrids and psilocybe genetics.
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19410298 - 01/12/14 09:38 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Do you not believe that entheogenic use should have a guide?
What a loaded question. 
Generally yes, novice users can use some sort of guide. But putting a rating system separate from what's already here (feedback) is a profoundly bad idea. As somebody else said already, cultivation and identification are easy to verify as they involve getting it right or wrong consistently, objectively. Give somebody good advice that backfires and see how that feels...it's subjective.
But I don't trust TC's any more than anybody else, because I've been growing since the 80's and pretty much been there, done that - and by the same token I wouldn't trust TG's ("trusted guides") any more than anybody else either, because, in the end, it's DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO PRACTICE SAFE TRIPPING (if that's even possible ). And at this point in my psychedelic research I can't name anybody - living OR dead - whose advice I would trust implicitly. I recommend you do your own research, not rely too much on somebody elses interpretation. 
Quote:
To keep them sacred we need a basic understanding of what they are for, and how to use and respect theses substances, and thats why knowledge should be shared.
IME they aren't FOR anything. And you can find out everything you ever need to know simply by consuming them and communing with the spirit entities that they help access. The rest is hubris and should be avoided, IMHO. But this is way off topic for your OP so I'm just gonna have to leave this alone now.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (01/12/14 09:55 PM)
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19410356 - 01/12/14 10:00 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I just feel its time to take the fringe mysticism out of the way that mainstream society views these substances and give them some well deserved grounded context. If I guide a newbie through his first cubensis grow, and am able to see the fruits of my labor, how is it different than guiding that same newbie through his first trip, instead of seeing the mushrooms, I see that he had a safe, fun, enlightening good experience. I believe there are fundamentals (that most of us know well) that could be exercised in this manner. There are also newbs guiding newbs, with bad advice, giving are sacred substances a bad name. Shouldn't these powerful tools be in trusted hands?
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19410479 - 01/12/14 10:39 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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No. Not over the Internet.
Too many variables. An experienced Shroomery guide has a better chance of giving good advice, but they can not look at or feel the person. They are not professionals. They may be drunk or moody when they post advice.
The term "Guide" in this context actually referred to trained medical professionals when psychedelics were legal.
Like I said, I had the same idea a while ago. It just will not work here, for legitimate legal reasons.
The Shroomery will not and should not endorse a pseudoscientific, psychological, online diagnoses, from anyone as fact, no matter how trusted they are.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19410911 - 01/13/14 01:46 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
how is it different than guiding that same newbie through his first trip, instead of seeing the mushrooms,
Because you're not there. Trips develop problems easily, and without experience or a sitters intervention they can go south in a big way quickly. The best defense against freaking out is experience, but there's only one way to get it - and even that's no guarantee. You have to be ready for anything and be able to roll with it. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Hashbuble
Mycocentric Mutha Fucker


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Posts: 860
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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19411493 - 01/13/14 07:43 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
how is it different than guiding that same newbie through his first trip, instead of seeing the mushrooms,
Because you're not there. Trips develop problems easily, and without experience or a sitters intervention they can go south in a big way quickly. The best defense against freaking out is experience, but there's only one way to get it - and even that's no guarantee. You have to be ready for anything and be able to roll with it. 
PS
This makes a lot of sense to me.
Thanks Primal Soup & Cervantes
-------------------- The mushrooms just keep following me
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Trusted Cultivator, Trusted Identifier, Trusted Guide? [Re: Hashbuble]
#19412817 - 01/13/14 03:03 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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Oh. OK. Happy tripping! 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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