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OfflineVE3HPC
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PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait?
    #19408181 - 01/12/14 12:38 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Hey fellow shroomery members. I am trying a tweak to the PF tek, but the past 2 days I have had some concern about these 4 jars that I am messing with. I have pictures that I will follow up with, and my observations are as follows: 1. The mycelium is "piling" on top of each other and growing upward instead of across the remaining substrate. The remaining uncolonized substrate is a very small area, but it is contaminate free. 2. The mycelium is very aggressive and healthy but I fear that this "piling" action is growing mycelium and using nutrients to do this that will take away from fruiting. I flipped the jars because the bottoms were growing slower, but with the reintroduction of some much needed gas exchange, the mycelium proceeded to grow. But flipping caused this "piling" effect

Here are my questions:

1. Do you think that removing the cakes and proceeding with a dunk to rehydrate to go towards fruiting would introduce contams to the uncolonized spot? Would there be enough mycelium surrounding the cake and inside the cake to ward off other contams?

2. Should I just wait it out and see if the uncolonized spot finishes? I would hate for the mycelium to overlay itself.

3. Input? Experience with this? Share your situations please!

Thanks everyone!









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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408201 - 01/12/14 12:42 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

It doesn't look bad, but myc growing like that generally indicates that it's hit a contam. How does it smell?


--------------------
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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19408257 - 01/12/14 12:56 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Since the jars have been flipped, the Verm layer on top will fall down the sides if I proceed to right them. So I am unsure. I think the mycelium is ok, nothing looks like a contam but if others chime in agreeing with you, I will probably chance one and remove it for a dunk and roll (only if everything smells ok). Then I will probably place it on a layer of Verm very lightly sprayed with h2o2 and put the uncolonized spot against it, then place the thing in the FC and initiate pinning and see what happens. Ill leave the other 3 growing and see what happens. What you guys think?

I've searched and searched on here and can find no pics that look related to my situation. I have searched looking for flipped jar pics and can find only normal looking flipped jars. I have had to flip a few jars before but have seen nothing like this!


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Edited by VE3HPC (01/12/14 12:59 PM)


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Offline1down5up
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408303 - 01/12/14 01:10 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I would just wait a little longer and see what happens.  I think it's best to wait for full colonization.  If it's contaminated, it will show pretty quick.  Are they taller jars?  The tall ones i had took forever to colonize on the bottom.

What is the "tweak" you speak of...how did you change it from the tek?  Are they MS?


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OfflinePerfect
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 1down5up]
    #19408307 - 01/12/14 01:11 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Nice mycelium, the vagina shaped uncolonized parts are a fun addition too! :smile:
How long have they been stalled like that?
I'm curious as to what was done to "Tweak" PF tek, but i suppose it's probably irrelevant.  If it's been colonized to that point for a while, I don't think you have much of a choice other than giving it a go. You may even be able to just scrape that uncolonized part off?


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: Perfect]
    #19408354 - 01/12/14 01:24 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

See that's the thing! The spot that is "uncolonized" per se is showing some signs of mycelium poking through from internal consolidation. So I'm pretty sure that the inside of the uncolonized spot, the mycelium is "right there" at it. Yes the vaginal spots are cool haha that was where my mind was the moment I saw it haha, my god how my mind hasn't grown from the humor of a 13 year old, but it truly is the best form of humor!

The jars aren't stalled either! That mound of mycelium is still growing and is actually touching the glass! It's about as tall as 4 quarters stacked back to back haha so I know from watching that it is pretty healthy. I know it is mycelium, not a contam, but slowly and surely it is growing over the "uncolonized spot"


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408368 - 01/12/14 01:27 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

If they end up ok, I will post my "tweak" I speak of later on. Just curious if dunking would be bad for that spot? Or maybe a better portal for water to enter the middle of the cake? I think I may open one up and give it a once over so I can better understand what's going on with the others


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Offline1down5up
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408376 - 01/12/14 01:29 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Did you use MS or cloned fruit to somehow knock them up....maybe it's a mutant, and that's how it colonizes?...


--------------------
~~Everything is relative~~


A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies  -  RR says  -  EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes  -  Frank's list of goodies  -  Cronicr's Goodies


No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life.  J.L.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19408377 - 01/12/14 01:29 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
It doesn't look bad, but myc growing like that generally indicates that it's hit a contam. How does it smell?




this.

it really looks like the myc hit a wall there..


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Invisiblemushmagic
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408378 - 01/12/14 01:30 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

You should post what you did to tweak it either way. That way even if it doesn't work others members know that what you did to tweak it didn't work.


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OfflinePerfect
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408451 - 01/12/14 01:50 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Haha,, I'm glad we have the same sense of humor.
Quote:

VE3HPC said:
The jars aren't stalled either! That mound of mycelium is still growing and is actually touching the glass! It's about as tall as 4 quarters stacked back to back haha so I know from watching that it is pretty healthy. I know it is mycelium, not a contam, but slowly and surely it is growing over the "uncolonized spot"



If the mycelium isn't stalled,, I'd probably wait. Especially if it's starting to poke through from the middle. It should colonize it from the mycelium in the middle.
Truthfully, dunking probably wouldn't cause any issues,, but why not just wait another few days to see..


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 1down5up]
    #19408692 - 01/12/14 02:55 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

1down5up said:
Did you use MS or cloned fruit to somehow knock them up....maybe it's a mutant, and that's how it colonizes?...




it is an LC of golden teacher species. I inoculated using about 3/4cc per hole and it resulted in very fast colonization. These jars were probably colonized in about 15 days to the pictures you see now. it isn't an MS or clone grow! Just very odd to pile up like this, never had this happen with my other flipped jars, even with same species!


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: Perfect]
    #19408709 - 01/12/14 02:59 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Perfect said:
If the mycelium isn't stalled,, I'd probably wait. Especially if it's starting to poke through from the middle. It should colonize it from the mycelium in the middle.
Truthfully, dunking probably wouldn't cause any issues,, but why not just wait another few days to see..




True, I will probably go ahead and wait a few more days just because every 12 hours i can actually visually see from a collection of comparison pictures the difference in growth. I should know in about 24 hours if its advancing in a positive direction!


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Offline1down5up
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19408727 - 01/12/14 03:02 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Did you make your LC with a spore syringe or a piece of fruit body.  Thing i'm getting at is maybe you've singled out some genetics which cause this.  MS means a collection of spores, whether in a syringe, or from a spore print or any other way that uses spores for inoc.  You usually get a mixed set of results with them.


--------------------
~~Everything is relative~~


A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies  -  RR says  -  EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes  -  Frank's list of goodies  -  Cronicr's Goodies


No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life.  J.L.


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: mushmagic]
    #19408774 - 01/12/14 03:13 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

mushmagic said:
You should post what you did to tweak it either way. That way even if it doesn't work others members know that what you did to tweak it didn't work.




I will surely release the tweak, but I am still somewhat testing. I have another batch of uninoculated sterile substrate that I will inoculate probably tonight but this time, no matter how long the bottoms take I will probably just let them take their time. I dont know if this "wall" of growth is caused by the response of flipping the jars. I have never seen this when flipping jars before. The next batch I wont flip them. Either way, my notes show that this revision to the classic pf tek should take complete beginners only 25 to 30 days to having fruits in their hands. In my experience, the time from my first few pf teks took closer to 2 months for 2 flushes of each cake.

I want my dots in a row before i tell anyone what im doing, because if it blows up in my face, its only one person (me) and not a bunch. Its not out of disrespect, I just want it right before people start following it for any length of time!

So, continue to use the version of the PF tek thats listed on the shroomery for your personal use, after all these are just jars of growing mycelium so the same rules for diagnostics should apply. BTW I have not altered the 2:1:1 verm:BRF:water ratios, so to anyone observing, it should be the same PF tek. just FYI!


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 1down5up]
    #19408804 - 01/12/14 03:21 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

1down5up said:
Did you make your LC with a spore syringe or a piece of fruit body.  Thing i'm getting at is maybe you've singled out some genetics which cause this.  MS means a collection of spores, whether in a syringe, or from a spore print or any other way that uses spores for inoc.  You usually get a mixed set of results with them.




I made the LC with a single syringe labeled "psilocybe cubensis - strain: golden teacher" and it is from a very reputable sponsor here on the shroomery. I have used this same LC before to make a small casing and nothing but what appeared to be classic golden teacher was growing from it. So it should be a single spore type and not an MS spore LC. I suppose there is always a chance of something crazy and off the wall happening!


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Offline1down5up
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19409212 - 01/12/14 05:07 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

There's no such thing as single spore bro.  There's is multi-spore, or cloned fruit by way of LC, or Agar, or whatever other means you use of isolating a specific set of genes.  You can't get an isolate of genes with spores....at least not without singling them out through other means.  I'm guessing it's a MS inoc you used, so that would rule out the idea of singled out genetics causing this.  That is what my original question was getting at.  I thought you might of singled out some genes that would cause this...and MS might too....cuz you never know what your'e gonna get there...but for it to be happening to multiple jars like that points to something else.  Beyond my comprehension brother...but good luck to ya..hope they work out:thumbup:


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A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies  -  RR says  -  EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes  -  Frank's list of goodies  -  Cronicr's Goodies


No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life.  J.L.


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 1down5up]
    #19409574 - 01/12/14 06:30 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Hey man, my bad I understand what your talking about now. Yes it was LC from a MS inoculation, no cloning or using isolates here!  I'm not at that level yet, I'm just having fun with casings, grains, LC, and the PF tek! It's really interesting though, understanding the life cycle has helped me tremendously! In a year or so, if I feel like investing a bit more resources into this hobby I will level up and expand. I would love to take my hand at agar and the like, but for now I'm only basic with MS into LC!

So yea, there is nothing special about my procedure here and I am definitely not trying to play the roll of mycological engineer... yet! :smile:

And thanks for not playing the roll of "sgt dick" and shunning me for being a noob with my wording! I will give you a good rating for being a good professor!


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Offline1down5up
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19409633 - 01/12/14 06:47 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

dude...i'm still a noob myself.  I learn through failure and given advice....just like yourself.  I wasn't trying to diss you...sometimes the written lacks the emotion and conveyance of conversation...but your explanation would eliminate a variable in your myc growth.
I think it's fuckin' stellar that you will try your hand at it all.  FInd what works for ya man, and master that shit!:thumbup:

I'll be following along to see how you're doing, and give whatever advice i feel confident enough to give, and I bet you'll have some knowledgeable folk stop in to point you in the right direction;)

edit: spend your exp on sterility and patience equally :wink:


--------------------
~~Everything is relative~~


A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies  -  RR says  -  EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes  -  Frank's list of goodies  -  Cronicr's Goodies


No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life.  J.L.


Edited by 1down5up (01/12/14 06:49 PM)


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 1down5up]
    #19409987 - 01/12/14 08:20 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Cool advice, yea time=sterility I have been figuring that out. It's something I have spent a lot of time on. Thanks for the encouragement!


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OfflineDetectiveLefty
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC] * 1
    #19411242 - 01/13/14 04:47 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Could be this is a side effect of using a lot of inoculant. I'm getting myc similar to this on a couple jars right now, seems to happen only where the edges of separate colonies of myc meet. I inoculated three weeks ago with 2 cc spore solution per jar (twice the recommended amount), plus the syringes were pretty dark as well as being fresh- I had a crazy amount of germination over maybe half the surface of the jars. No contams that I'm aware of though. I'm planning on waiting as long as it takes for full colonization.


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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
    #19411284 - 01/13/14 05:27 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Very true, using a lot of inoculant could have had the mycelium growing against each other to quickly and caused them to move in the easiest direction i.e. up towards oxygen and not across the substrate. I just checked the jars again this morning, I believe the mycelium is starting to cover the open parts slowly but surely. I will post update pics later once I get back from work! Have a good day everyone!


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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19411468 - 01/13/14 07:29 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

almost there.looks good to me. if  all colonized except there. I would flip the jar and smack it on my palm, till it moves. getting alittle pocket of air. to get some ge going there. then just leave em to consolidate.gl...:sporedrop:


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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19412302 - 01/13/14 12:42 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

VE3HPC said:
I will surely release the tweak, but I am still somewhat testing. I have another batch of uninoculated sterile substrate that I will inoculate probably tonight but this time, no matter how long the bottoms take I will probably just let them take their time. I dont know if this "wall" of growth is caused by the response of flipping the jars. I have never seen this when flipping jars before. The next batch I wont flip them. Either way, my notes show that this revision to the classic pf tek should take complete beginners only 25 to 30 days to having fruits in their hands. In my experience, the time from my first few pf teks took closer to 2 months for 2 flushes of each cake.

I want my dots in a row before i tell anyone what im doing, because if it blows up in my face, its only one person (me) and not a bunch. Its not out of disrespect, I just want it right before people start following it for any length of time!

So, continue to use the version of the PF tek thats listed on the shroomery for your personal use, after all these are just jars of growing mycelium so the same rules for diagnostics should apply. BTW I have not altered the 2:1:1 verm:BRF:water ratios, so to anyone observing, it should be the same PF tek. just FYI!




Let me say I have many grows under my belt and even with my first grow it has never taken more then about a month and a half from inouclation to throwing out my spent cakes. I stick to the PF tek and from syringe to LC about 8 days (Dec 22- 31(with my most recent batch)). LC to jars fully colonized about 14 days (Jan 1-14(I wait about 5 days to let then consolidate, they are basically at 95% today)) From my past experience it will take me about 10-14 days till I am harvesting my first flush. About the same for my second and third.

There for IMO and from my experience from start to fruit in your hand only takes 30 days fallowing the PF tek. The only way it takes longer is if you use very little LC when you inoculate your jars. LC is easy to make so I just use 1-3/4 a cc per hole and it speed up colonization. I say add about 5-10 days if your only using 1/4cc per hole. but that is still only 35-40 days so I have no idea how it takes you 2 months to do the PF tek. Unless you are running into problems during the process.

I would like to know what you are doing differently but I feel that your speed is the same as the normal tek(or close enough). I am not trying to discourage you but 2 months is a slow PF tek IMO. I hope everything works out for you and look forward to seeing what you did differently when you post it.


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: Danner16]
    #19412500 - 01/13/14 01:40 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Wow, 1 and 3/4 per hole? That explains your speed hahahaha that's awesome the coming 3 jars that I have I will try the same and see how much faster it happens. I agree that LC is really easy to make, saves me from buying spore syringes from when I first started. I can probably make 1 syringe last me about 2 years if my pace keeps like it is (which I don't use much, only for very sporadic personal experiences!)

I appreciate the info on how long it takes you for your pf tek, if I notice any significant gains from my tweaks I will definitely share! This site is awesome for sharing resources and I hope I can contribute back in the same way others have helped me!


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OfflineDetectiveLefty
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
    #19412958 - 01/13/14 03:39 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Never mind- spotted contams in these jars today. Not sure what it is, but there's some purple discoloration in each of them.



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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
    #19413977 - 01/13/14 07:17 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Hey everyone, 24 hrs later and the one that looked like a vagina is closed up. By looking into the slit (haha very funny I know) you can see lots of mycelium growing inside it so I felt comfortable birthing it. It's in a pot of water for 12 hrs and will be in fruiting chamber tomorrow. Will post more pics as the others near a closing point as well. I will also post pics of these things fruiting later on! I'm glad I waited! Thanks for the advise everyone!



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OfflineDanner16
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19414045 - 01/13/14 07:39 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

VE3HPC said:
Wow, 1 and 3/4 per hole?



No I said 1-3/4(should have typed it 3/4-1cc I guess) of a cc not 1 and 3/4cc. Anything over 1cc is excess(and even 1 is over kill) IMO unless your making larger jars.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: Danner16]
    #19414206 - 01/13/14 08:15 PM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Anything over a few drops of spore solution per hole is excessive IMHO.












But that's just me :begger:


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OfflineDanner16
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19415755 - 01/14/14 04:09 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Anything over a few drops of spore solution per hole is excessive IMHO.












But that's just me :begger:



I agree that why I make a liquid culture. That way your spore solution last as long as you need it to.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: Danner16]
    #19415758 - 01/14/14 04:12 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

that's why I g2g.. and to escape the possibility of a contamed LC..


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: spacechildo]
    #19415834 - 01/14/14 04:46 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
that's why I g2g.. and to escape the possibility of a contamed LC..



:whathesaid:


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19415839 - 01/14/14 04:50 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

Pussyfart?!? Where's your guns pussy? :lol:


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: spacechildo]
    #19415875 - 01/14/14 05:05 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

lc is dumb


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: spacechildo]
    #19418190 - 01/14/14 04:41 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Why is LC dumb?


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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: VE3HPC]
    #19418243 - 01/14/14 04:51 PM (10 years, 16 days ago)

it's just useless for aggressive hardy species like cubes


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: cronicr]
    #19422397 - 01/15/14 11:29 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

LC isn't useless at all. I sometimes use it myself if I need a fuckload of culture pretty quickly.

LC just sucks cause you can't see contams, so you have to do a test jar.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19422407 - 01/15/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

:laugh2: yeah i guess useless is a heavy word, i love my lc's just not for cubes i find agar faster and more reliable


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: cronicr]
    #19423972 - 01/15/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Cool, yea the waiting with LC does suck... Waiting to see if you have contams is a pain, but so far I haven't had a single contam!


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: cronicr]
    #19424010 - 01/15/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
i find agar faster and more reliable




because it is


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OfflineVE3HPC
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Re: PF TEK style jars bottom colonization issue - good or wait? [Re: twistedty]
    #19425410 - 01/15/14 10:49 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Well, good news. I don't know why the myc in those jars wanted to pile like that but they have completely closed up now. I'm going to let them consolidate till this weekend then birth them. Like I mentioned before, the PF tek and grain jars to casings are about as far as I go, because I really only use them every 2 to 3 months for personal uses. I'm getting better as this is probably my 8th round at PF tek and my 4th round at another small grain casing. This kinda threw me off so I figured I would ask!

I appreciate everyone contributing to this thread in the days of concern. Thanks for all your advice!


--------------------
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