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InvisibleHashbuble
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Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers
    #19408150 - 01/12/14 12:28 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Hello everyone,

                I am looking for easy ways to test isolates. I have recently browsed through all of these (Grow Huge Magic Mushrooms) websites that sell kits. It seems that most of the kits are just inoculated trays put into spawn bags, (no FC, like SGFC or Mono). So if these work well for fruiting shrooms in, (meaning proper FAE) then why not easily test different isolates in these spawn bags?


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Offlinefatchillin
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408163 - 01/12/14 12:31 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I used this method for a while. I think it works, I just used smaller bags. You really have to dial in your fae / humidity though.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408166 - 01/12/14 12:31 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

They don't work that well. Spawn bags are considered invitro.

The easiest way to test a culture is to do a cake or small tray.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408167 - 01/12/14 12:31 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

who said they work well lol


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408178 - 01/12/14 12:36 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Why not test isolates with bags you make yourself or small PF cakes :shrug:

Sure it will work but your testing your isolate out in in-vitro settings and then you're growing out your isolate in a SGFC or a monotub or something else. I would try to keep as many variables the same when testing out an isolate so you know how it will perform in the situation you want to use it in.

You're not going to find out much about your isolate if it's going to perform shitty no matter what. Are you just making sure they fruit because chances are they will. It's pretty damn rare to run into a non fruiting strain.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/12/14 12:37 PM)


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19408207 - 01/12/14 12:44 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Well, I liked the idea because the phenotypes that I'm testing I don't want to waste room in my GH's and other FC, I like them to be filled with proven high yielding isolates. So It's really just a matter of space.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408218 - 01/12/14 12:46 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

If you want a proper test, you're gonna need proper conditions. Test them where you're gonna fruit them. Invitro results will tell you almost nothing.

If space is the big issue, just test 1 tub or tray or cake or whatever at a time.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408248 - 01/12/14 12:53 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Really it's just about convenience, it's so easy just to throw a tray in a bag. Using cakes to test iso's, I'd have to make a culture syringe, and a fruiting chamber. It just seems to me, that if I tested 10 iso's in 10 spawn bags, and one of them seems to be fruiting like a MOFO in that bitch, no matter what, I got myself a good fruiting iso!


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: fatchillin]
    #19408274 - 01/12/14 01:01 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

fatchillin said:
I used this method for a while. I think it works, I just used smaller bags. You really have to dial in your fae / humidity though.



How the hell do you dial in the FAE in a spawn bag? Put an Oscillating fan in the room? poke holes just above the substrate in the bag? How about a spawn bag for fruiting with 2 filter patches, invention?

And really, I don't need them to work that well for harvesting large amounts of mushrooms, I realize it's not optimal conditions, I just need them to work well for visually determining that this one is better than that one,ya know, identifying prolific iso's. I just need to SEE if one dose better than the other. It's for testing isolates, not yielding fruits.

Can anyone speak from experience of doing this? How many flushes? Dry substrate weight to dry harvest rate compared to same iso in a proper fruiting chamber?

Sorry for double post


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Edited by Hashbuble (01/12/14 01:41 PM)


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408406 - 01/12/14 01:39 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain. You need to test each iso in your final environment to get the best results. Don't be lazy and possibly throw away an awesome culture cause it didn't like invitro growing.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19408416 - 01/12/14 01:41 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

You can use filter patch bags as small fruiting chambers by cutting a slit or two up the sides when it comes time to fruit.  This allows for extra air exchange and misting.
RR


--------------------
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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19408431 - 01/12/14 01:46 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain. You need to test each iso in your final environment to get the best results. Don't be lazy and possibly throw away an awesome culture cause it didn't like invitro growing.




When you say (That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain) you are basically saying ( It's gonna find you a co2 tolerant strain) and tell me, what's wrong with that? Are you saying that mushrooms that fruit well in high co2 environments, won't fruit well in fresh air environments?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408453 - 01/12/14 01:51 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Hashbuble said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain. You need to test each iso in your final environment to get the best results. Don't be lazy and possibly throw away an awesome culture cause it didn't like invitro growing.




When you say (That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain) you are basically saying ( It's gonna find you a co2 tolerant strain) and tell me, what's wrong with that? Are you saying that mushrooms that fruit well in high co2 environments, won't fruit well in fresh air environments?




You only know till you try. there's more than just those variables. Say you had a CO2 intolerant strain that did shit in the bags but if you would have given it to a bulk substrate in a GHFC or a monotub it would explode.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19408481 - 01/12/14 01:57 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Hashbuble said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain. You need to test each iso in your final environment to get the best results. Don't be lazy and possibly throw away an awesome culture cause it didn't like invitro growing.




When you say (That's only gonna find you a good invitro strain) you are basically saying ( It's gonna find you a co2 tolerant strain) and tell me, what's wrong with that? Are you saying that mushrooms that fruit well in high co2 environments, won't fruit well in fresh air environments?




You only know till you try. there's more than just those variables. Say you had a CO2 intolerant strain that did shit in the bags but if you would have given it to a bulk substrate in a GHFC or a monotub it would explode.



True.

Even so, I don't want a co2 intolerant strain. Why would I?
I would rather have a strain that will explode no matter what the conditions are. So why waste my time playing with co2 intolerant strains when I'm sure I can find one that will do everything I want it to. What would be the advantage of having a co2 intolerant strain?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408510 - 01/12/14 02:05 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Do as you wish, Developed methods were contrived for a reason there's way more variables than CO2 RH FAE Light Substrate Size of container etc.., do what works for you :shrug:


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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19408522 - 01/12/14 02:07 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
If you want a proper test, you're gonna need proper conditions. Test them where you're gonna fruit them. Invitro results will tell you almost nothing.

If space is the big issue, just test 1 tub or tray or cake or whatever at a time.



this, cakes are your best bet for iso testing


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19408535 - 01/12/14 02:10 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Do as you wish, Developed methods were contrived for a reason there's way more variables than CO2 RH FAE Light Substrate Size of container etc.., do what works for you :shrug:




I get it, but, let's keep developing, let's keep GROWING! literally & figuratively. I don't see the point anymore in talking about what works, let's talk about what could work.
:thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
The mushrooms just keep following me


Edited by Hashbuble (01/12/14 02:50 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19408680 - 01/12/14 02:50 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Hashbuble said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Do as you wish, Developed methods were contrived for a reason there's way more variables than CO2 RH FAE Light Substrate Size of container etc.., do what works for you :shrug:




I get it. Let's keep developing, let's keep GROWING!

:thumbup::thumbup:



:thumbup:

Just started a grow thread. If you would like to pop in at all.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409215 - 01/12/14 05:07 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Hashbuble said:
I get it, but, let's keep developing, let's keep GROWING! literally & figuratively. I don't see the point anymore in talking about what works, let's talk about what could work.
:thumbup::thumbup:




The thing is that if you read long enough, these tests have already been done, and are part of why we do what we do. You have no need to try to innovate until you have a full understanding of not ust mushrooms, but higher fungi in general.

Test it where you're gonna fruit it.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19409251 - 01/12/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Quote:

Hashbuble said:
I get it, but, let's keep developing, let's keep GROWING! literally & figuratively. I don't see the point anymore in talking about what works, let's talk about what could work.
:thumbup::thumbup:




The thing is that if you read long enough, these tests have already been done, and are part of why we do what we do. You have no need to try to innovate until you have a full understanding of not ust mushrooms, but higher fungi in general.

Test it where you're gonna fruit it.



Why can't I do both?

Sorry, I've never been good at following


--------------------
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Edited by Hashbuble (01/12/14 05:21 PM)


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409459 - 01/12/14 05:58 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

You can do both, and waste your time and money, or you can learn from other people wasting their time and money. I prefer to let other people waste time while I do things right nowadays. I feel like I've already wasted enough on half-assed methods that aren't well thought out or come from someone who just doesn't understand things very well. :shrug:

I still experiment once in a while myself, but I do it within the confines of rationality that follows reading a LOT about these things.

If you really have to see the results of your experiment, you can look them up for free. Lots of people have tried it.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19409499 - 01/12/14 06:08 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you.

To each his own.

I didn't believe in California until I went there.I've been there now, now I know it's real. That being said, I've been growing for a long time. I have tried 95% of the methods on this site. I always learn something that I couldn't get from reading. If you have a link to the methods I outline in this thread, I am interested. Growing iso's in spawn bags compared to FC's, I'd love that link. Also, I don't think you have read my post carefully enough in this thread. This tek is NOT for harvesting mushrooms, it's for easily identifying prolific iso's.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409632 - 01/12/14 06:46 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

You can learn and learn until you're a "pro" and then push new boundaries and learn new things, but you may be jaded and have some views developed. You can experiment right away but your experiments are going to be low quality, but you'll still learn from failure, at least you can come here and make sure you are not trying something that is already a complete fail but if you're still trying new things then so what. As long as you're not driving like shit on the roads I don't care how you drive your projects. :shrug: If you're getting something out of it then awesome.

That doesn't mean we don't want to keep this place noob friendly. Sometimes I know I come off as a dick but that's so the lurkers and people who search up these posts can see an opinion of someone who went from noob to what I would call pretty damn good success in like 6 months. Sure I'm no expert but I can at least lay a guide for the people who are starting out where I was 6 months ago.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/12/14 06:48 PM)


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409637 - 01/12/14 06:48 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Hashbuble said:
I didn't believe in California until I went there.I've been there now, now I know it's real.




If that's how you think, you're gonna have a hard life.

Quote:

That being said, I've been growing for a long time. I have tried 95% of the methods on this site. I always learn something that I couldn't get from reading. If you have a link to the methods I outline in this thread, I am interested.




I've seen it a lot. You'll have to search.

Quote:

Growing iso's in spawn bags compared to FC's, I'd love that link. Also, I don't think you have read my post carefully enough in this thread. This tek is NOT for harvesting mushrooms, it's for easily identifying prolific iso's.




You can only identify an iso that's prolific IN THE ENVIRONMENT YOU GIVE THEM. Plain and simple. If you fruit in bags, you'll get some results but they won't tell you which one is the best iso in good conditions.

Why do you think commercial edible farms don't all use the same isolate? It's because they choose the best one for their environment.

Bottom line is you're adding a variable to your experiment, so you can never get proper results.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19409681 - 01/12/14 07:00 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

36fuckin5 said
"You can only identify an iso that's prolific IN THE ENVIRONMENT YOU GIVE THEM"

No offense, but I think that is complete and total bullshit.

some super aggressive cubensis genetics that I isolate can grow in anything, and I can spot that aggressiveness in poor conditions and in good ones.

It's not wise to speak in definitive s


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409691 - 01/12/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I give up. Waste your money if you like.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19409710 - 01/12/14 07:08 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Innovation and experimentation is never a waste my friend, It's and investment. :wink:


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409717 - 01/12/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Hashbuble said:
Innovation and experimentation is never a waste my friend, It's and investment. :wink:




I agree, but this is nowhere near innovation, and the experimentation has already been done.

I expect lower returns on your investment than you should get with good methods, and I do mean in the long term.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19409720 - 01/12/14 07:10 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

He doesn't get it, that the best way to do things was an experiment as well. Inception. :lol:


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19409738 - 01/12/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
He doesn't get it, that the best way to do things was an experiment as well. Inception. :lol:



Bodhisatta,

Why do what I've already done before. I know those methods work from experience. I'm trying to move forward (not do things that myself and others have done thousands of times before) Tell me what the definition of insanity is?

Like I said, if anyone has any real hands on experience of the tek outlined in this forum, or even a working link, hook a brother up, and stop telling me things I learned 10 years ago!


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409757 - 01/12/14 07:20 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Yes but people have found out their isolates have performed not as well in the intended place as they did in a test environment.


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19409767 - 01/12/14 07:24 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Yes but people have found out their isolates have performed not as well in the intended place as they did in a test environment.



Perfect! Finally! What was there test environment?

Can I PLEASE get a link to this endeavor?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #19409780 - 01/12/14 07:28 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

It's in mycology books, Maybe google books or amazon has previews in them. Paul Stamments(sp) etc..


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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19409801 - 01/12/14 07:33 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I use brf cakes to test isolates.  What leads you to think if you're going to grow on horse manure later that you need to test your isolates on horse manure? You can find the best isolates on brf cakes and then grow them on horse manure later for larger yields.  You'll hear all sorts of stories about how you need to test on the substrate you'll use later, and there might be some truth to that with the harder to grow edibles, but cubes will grow on anything, so it's not applicable.
RR
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10468360#10468360


The fastest method of testing isolates is to make brf cakes without the verm layer, using a tyvek filter instead.  Place a wedge of each strain in each brf cake.  Don't waste time making LC(ever) or going to grains if the species you're testing will grow on cakes.
RR
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13705010#13705010
if you search testing isolates and click the tc button, all that comes up is cake testing and probably for a good reason


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InvisibleHashbuble
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19409812 - 01/12/14 07:35 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I have all Pauls books, and read them all thoroughly, I know him personally as well. He actually taught me cultivation and phenotype isolation on his farm in Olypimpia. He never mentioned to me or in his books the question I ask. That's ok though, I believe I know the answer anyways. I was just looking for some objective, constructive input.



The fastest method of testing isolates is to make brf cakes without the verm layer, using a tyvek filter instead.  Place a wedge of each strain in each brf cake.  Don't waste time making LC(ever) or going to grains if the species you're testing will grow on cakes.
RR


Thanks Cron,

That is helpful (the wedge in the cake)


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Edited by Hashbuble (01/12/14 07:38 PM)


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Offlineurbanacres
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Re: Using Airflow Spawn bags as fruiting chambers [Re: Hashbuble]
    #20708628 - 10/15/14 10:17 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

So with these bags would I only have to poke holes when they are closer to being fully colonized? I just mixed grain spawn with straw and did these bags today and am not sure about putting holes in them because of the filter patch. If holes are needed, how many? thanks any info helps very new to this


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