|
BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: teknix]
#19406564 - 01/12/14 01:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
At first I treat everyone good (as I would like to be treated), same with trust. BUT, I rarely give a second chance
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19407026 - 01/12/14 05:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
hmmn said: Certainly the first, because it yields greater benefit to people as a whole. This assume that you want to be treated well, but receive mixed treatment from others...I imagine one day it won't be a meaningful distinction because everyone will treat each other well and we'll all live in blissful harmony. 
So when you gave me a zero rating last night, you must have really wanted one for yourself, because you want to treat others how you want to be treated....
Well sorry, no zero rating for you .
I took you off of ignore, wasn't that good enough?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: teknix]
#19407054 - 01/12/14 06:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
teknix said: So you're more concerned with intent or motive rather than the outcome?
It is kind of impossible to determine the outcome of every situation further then the most immediate future.
I think if someone was even trying to kill you for a good reason you would still try to stop them.
Hmmm...yeah, I was thinking about these extreme cases too. I think the rate of error in any ethical system increases alongside risk to one's well-being. So...perhaps my extreme example is not so good. Also, if someone has a good reason to kill me I'm pretty sure I've already failed to behave ethically. 
Perhaps a better example would be a case in which someone is known to be stealing from you. If my approach to ethics is to treat others as they treat me, I'm only going to make this worse (by stealing from them). If I'm committed to treating others as I would like to be treated, I'm probably going to be a pacifist about it; at best, I might ask them to stop. This is no good as it makes you easy to take advantage of and, if widely practiced, encourages bad behavior.
If my approach to ethics is to act so as to maximize benefit to everyone involved, I'm not going to let somebody steal from me. It's no good for them - though I might tolerate it, this person is going to learn the hard way that stealing doesn't work out eventually - and it's no good for me. 
If it's an acquaintance who's stealing something relatively small, it'd probably be best to talk to the person, see if I can help them with money trouble or whatever, and let them know what to expect if they keep stealing from me (e.g. retaliation). If it's a large entity stealing lots of money for questionable purposes (e.g. the IRS), then its a matter of evading theft and retaining ownership of my wealth so that it can be used for better purposes. Treating others as I'd like to be treated probably implies pacifism here, and treating others as they treat me would put me in prison fast.
Doesn't it seem like in these examples, neither of the approaches in the OP will yield satisfactory results? Wouldn't my suggested approach have better results? 
.....
p.s. Of course, there is great uncertainty in trying to choose actions for the purpose of bringing about an intended future state. I would argue that while my proposed approach to ethics in human interaction can lead to errors caused by uncertainty, the other proposed approaches to ethics will yield worse results through their lack of any attempt to consider the possible results of the actions they inform. What do you think? Am I full of it?
|
hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19407074 - 01/12/14 06:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
Quote:
hmmn said: Certainly the first, because it yields greater benefit to people as a whole. This assume that you want to be treated well, but receive mixed treatment from others...I imagine one day it won't be a meaningful distinction because everyone will treat each other well and we'll all live in blissful harmony. 
So when you gave me a zero rating last night, you must have really wanted one for yourself, because you want to treat others how you want to be treated....
Well sorry, no zero rating for you .
I took you off of ignore, wasn't that good enough?
Haha...I had CosmicJoke on ignore too; had to take him off as this was too confusing.
Cosmic, you were being such a dick that it really unsettled me. To be honest, I still expect you to be a dick and will probably put you back on ignore shortly. I don't always behave by the ethical standards I believe are best; I'm a human being, and a relatively confused one at that. At the very least, though, I have not and will not intentionally harm people on this beautiful forum, whose broader purpose is to bring together a small set of the psychedelic community.. This is not to say that I won't attempt to tear apart others' ideas where appropriate. I hope that you will one day hold yourself to a similar minimal standard of ethical behavior here.
|
Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 27 days
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: hmmn]
#19407080 - 01/12/14 06:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Ethics is a luxury.
|
hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: Jaegar]
#19407113 - 01/12/14 06:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Jaegar said: Ethics is a luxury.
I think you mean "Ethics are a luxury," young man.
|
quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: hmmn] 2
#19407156 - 01/12/14 07:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
you do need a nice armchair
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
|
liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: hmmn] 1
#19407195 - 01/12/14 07:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hmmn said:
Quote:
Jaegar said: Ethics is a luxury.
I think you mean "Ethics are a luxury," young man.

Speaking about being a dick.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: liquidlounge]
#19407213 - 01/12/14 07:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
hmmn said:
Quote:
Jaegar said: Ethics is a luxury.
I think you mean "Ethics are a luxury," young man.

Speaking about being a dick.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: hmmn]
#19407355 - 01/12/14 08:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hmmn said:
Haha...I had CosmicJoke on ignore too; had to take him off as this was too confusing.
Cosmic, you were being such a dick that it really unsettled me. To be honest, I still expect you to be a dick and will probably put you back on ignore shortly. I don't always behave by the ethical standards I believe are best; I'm a human being, and a relatively confused one at that. At the very least, though, I have not and will not intentionally harm people on this beautiful forum, whose broader purpose is to bring together a small set of the psychedelic community.. This is not to say that I won't attempt to tear apart others' ideas where appropriate. I hope that you will one day hold yourself to a similar minimal standard of ethical behavior here.
I was never out to harm ya though, just trying to get into Ice's peculiar headspace, see what he thought motivated a trite word of encouragement, and why he believed them to be damaging... So I was speculating with him, working from his vantage point, trying to see things his way for a moment, and though you kickstarted that conversation, it had nothing to do with you.
I did not see your response as out of the ordinary, it's what people tend to do. We don't know the OP, so it's hard to offer personal encouragement, it all tends to read like a hallmark card (which might have been exactly what the OP was looking for, for all I know).
I'm sorry I mortally offended you, was not on my list of things to do that day.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19407370 - 01/12/14 08:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
So why are you such a dick?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19407660 - 01/12/14 10:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Because it's the spirit of PP&S....
Which imho, can be summed up as juggling act between being lucid, a dick, funny, and big-hearted.
Part of the reason we're here is to be upfront about our negative opinions, without making them personalisms. I've somehow managed to do that without so much as a warning for 14yrs now.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19407758 - 01/12/14 10:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I've somehow managed to do that without so much as a warning for 14yrs now. 
With 4k posts, not that impressive. Based on your skeptic approach, 0 ignored by is impressive IMO.
I have several warnings and two bans.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: liquidlounge]
#19407795 - 01/12/14 10:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I've been tempted to put you on ignore, but never due to your beliefs. It's mostly when you hold long, incomprehensible conversations with yourself spanning multiple threads and bumping all of them repeatedly in succession. Even then, I've let it slide.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19407847 - 01/12/14 10:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I don't care who you put on ignore but rather the lack of butthurt people putting you on ignore.
Even then, I've let it slide.
Do you expect me to thank you now?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: liquidlounge]
#19407906 - 01/12/14 11:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
liquidlounge said: I don't care who you put on ignore but rather the lack of butthurt people putting you on ignore.
Even then, I've let it slide.
Do you expect me to thank you now?
Hardly, but I was suggesting that people weren't actually putting you on ignore because they were butt hurt by something you had said. I think there are other reasons, see above.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19407932 - 01/12/14 11:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
So you felt like I attacked you? Since you want to divert the focus from yourself on me instead.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: liquidlounge]
#19407951 - 01/12/14 11:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
liquidlounge said: So you felt like I attacked you? Since you want to divert the focus from yourself on me instead.
You made yourself a topic by contrasting your own rap sheet with mine, so I gave yours a moment of consideration. I'm still curious about the said phenomenon and was hoping you'd be more open to discuss what was going on with that, but it's not so important, just as none of this conversation has been.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19408053 - 01/12/14 12:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You made yourself a topic by contrasting your own rap sheet with mine, so I gave yours a moment of consideration.
Fair enough, I forgot that I mentioned my rap sheet.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
|
CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
|
Re: Treat others how you want to be treated or . . . . [Re: liquidlounge]
#19408072 - 01/12/14 12:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Anyways, I see what you were looking for now. I'm not precisely sure what you think my secret to not being ignored is. This is a forum orientated around debating, it's for people who on some level like to disagree with one another. We're not precisely the type of people who get into an argument and never want to talk to each other again.
So, if you don't make it personal, people generally will keep on arguing with you. You can sort of worm your way around the rules by being snarky, condescending, using degrading emoticons and such, as they often don't break the rules, but it's devoid of honest self-awareness and only serves to stroke one's ego, and I'm sure it will result in more people putting you on ignore. If you just stick to arguing though, it can be pretty mean, and though it may not reveal an unassailable truth, it's still a viable vantage point.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
|
|