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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Your level of DA
#19407357 - 01/12/14 08:38 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Assuming you believe DA exists.
I think your personal levels or experiences of DA are mostly set by your early childhood experiences, as in did you feel secure in your family, were you nurtured well and anxieties placated.
In other words if you were abused or neglected your DA will be higher due to the fact that the world will seem much more threatening.
What say you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/12/14 08:52 AM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407362 - 01/12/14 08:39 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Your.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Yeah, I just noticed that coming back to it. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407388 - 01/12/14 08:53 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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perhaps anxiety in general. i personally had an ideal childhood & parents & i experienced fear of death specifically at a pretty young age (say 11) staying up late at night wondering what those final moments would be like and that they would happen to me.. i certainly thought about it then much more than now
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
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Re: You're level of DA [Re: quinn]
#19407400 - 01/12/14 08:56 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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i remember being very sad about adolescence and that in a year i would be physically and prob mentally unrecognizable from myself.. strange time in anyone's life really
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: You're level of DA [Re: quinn]
#19407402 - 01/12/14 08:56 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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So then would you say you have a lot of DA or a moderate or small amount?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr.Sir
Psilosopher


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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407410 - 01/12/14 08:58 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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DA?!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Mr.Sir]
#19407412 - 01/12/14 08:59 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Death Anxiety.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr.Sir
Psilosopher


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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407419 - 01/12/14 09:01 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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ahh, I see... Nah then - I've had a good run
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407420 - 01/12/14 09:01 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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presently? i would say i can't see clearly enough to regularly feel death anxiety but i do experience above average social anxiety
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: You're level of DA [Re: quinn]
#19407431 - 01/12/14 09:04 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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None.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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quinn
some kinda love


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Re: You're level of DA [Re: quinn]
#19407435 - 01/12/14 09:05 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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i guess i'll lock in moderate
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Mr.Sir]
#19407436 - 01/12/14 09:05 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Sir said: DA?!
I'm the DA. I'm the one prosecuting your case.
Ouch.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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jimiandtheshroom27
Lost in endless spirals.


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407439 - 01/12/14 09:06 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
In other words if you were abused or neglected your DA will be higher due to the fact that the world will seem much more threatening.
I get what you mean, and that is a real possibility. But i wonder is it also not possible that negative experiences in childhood could actually lower your anxiety about death? Suppose experience in childhood shapes you to be anxious and depressed. Doesn't death seem more welcoming from such a perspective? Don't happy people have more to lose?
-------------------- Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light Or just another lost angel? City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon
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ByTor
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Re: You're level of DA [Re: quinn]
#19407445 - 01/12/14 09:08 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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My experiences with mushrooms have given me a new perspectve on death. I don't have the fears i used to.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407448 - 01/12/14 09:09 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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so do you have a new angle on this? I thought we had wrung the life out of this substantially unsupported theorem.
On the one hand, you have personal association to emotional history with (pleasure and) pain that will drive decisions.
On the other hand, you do have flight or fight, which is an adrenaline type of reflex to perceived bodily painful encounters or threats.
FoF applies to virtually all vertebrates and some invertebrates: 99.9% of those species exhibiting the FoF reaction seem to have no conceptual death reference.
simple minds go like this - let me translate: "eat eat eat.... run away! run away!"
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: so do you have a new angle on this? I thought we had wrung the life out of this substantially unsupported theorem.
On the one hand, you have personal association to emotional history with (pleasure and) pain that will drive decisions.
On the other hand, you do have flight or fight, which is an adrenaline type of reflex to perceived bodily painful encounters or threats.
FoF applies to virtually all vertebrates and some invertebrates: 99.9% of those species exhibiting the FoF reaction seem to have no conceptual death reference.
simple minds go like this - let me translate: "eat eat eat.... run away! run away!"
I would bet you are overweight.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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absols
Stranger

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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407486 - 01/12/14 09:23 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I think it is the opposite.. if you are neglected as a child, you are then stronger as an adult alone .. so the state of conscious so being free reference is less anxious about everything ... more used to be alone in life
that is how you would rarely see poor people being anxious ... anxiety seem to be a trait of comfortable backgrounds of being
anxiety disorders are mostly due to opposites forces of what you are relatively .. when what is opposite is objectively stronger then the relative cant be, so conscious perspective of that sense... starts shaking.. I am inventing that image which look logical
Edited by absols (01/12/14 09:28 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407507 - 01/12/14 09:31 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I have some DA, although I am on much better terms with death these days than I was in the past. More accepting, less worried. I had absolutely no abnormalities or abuse in my childhood.
I think it should be pointed out, and RGV touched on it, that the fear of death is actually not a natural phenomenon. I.e., it is not human nature per se. Many documented cultures throughout human history (and prehistory) have regarded death with very positive feelings. For example, ancient Romans and later Japanese Samurai regarded death as a noble act and suicide was very highly regarded and practiced without a touch of shame.
It's a more relative phenomenon. I'm sure if an Australian aborigine were to read this thread he would give an answer we would find unique.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: so do you have a new angle on this? I thought we had wrung the life out of this substantially unsupported theorem.
On the one hand, you have personal association to emotional history with (pleasure and) pain that will drive decisions.
On the other hand, you do have flight or fight, which is an adrenaline type of reflex to perceived bodily painful encounters or threats.
FoF applies to virtually all vertebrates and some invertebrates: 99.9% of those species exhibiting the FoF reaction seem to have no conceptual death reference.
simple minds go like this - let me translate: "eat eat eat.... run away! run away!"
I would bet you are overweight.
these are the thoughts of cows mine have a bit more range: "money money money, drugs drugs drugs, sex, sex, sex, art art art, books, movies, computers run away, run away"
--------------------
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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I think we all fear death here. If it weren't for fear, I highly doubt we'd be alive today. DA prolongs the inevitable..
On a related subject. All anxiety is taught, if you have anxiety I'd bet it's because of your parents overwhelming anxiety. We were all taught to stay alive from our parents. We all have DA.
My level of DA is pretty high now that I have others I care for. If i lived only for myself my DA would be a lot lower.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407666 - 01/12/14 10:16 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Assuming you believe DA exists.
I think your personal levels or experiences of DA are mostly set by your early childhood experiences, as in did you feel secure in your family, were you nurtured well and anxieties placated.
In other words if you were abused or neglected your DA will be higher due to the fact that the world will seem much more threatening.
What say you?
I guess so. I feel like I felt physically secure in childhood but still have plenty of DA.
Do you feel like doing the opposite and shielding a child from the harsh realities of life and deceiving it with cosy illusions, giving it a permanently comfy environment with defined barriers and taboos would reduce death anxiety? At the same time it may be nearly as bad. That's what my childhood was like and I'm a mess.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander] 4
#19407723 - 01/12/14 10:29 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I find that my levels of DA exponentially decrease by a power of 42 when I stop talking about my levels of DA.
--------------------
full blown human
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Mr.Sir
Psilosopher


Registered: 09/28/13
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
Mr.Sir said: DA?!
I'm the DA. I'm the one prosecuting your case.
Ouch.
ha - that's the first acronym I associated with DA upon reading...
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Quote:
Penelope_Tree said: I find that my levels of DA exponentially decrease by a power of 42 when I stop talking about my levels of DA.
I don't find that at all. I think my DA, or at least it's outward symptoms, have substantially lessened since awhile after I started becoming aware of it.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Penelope_Tree said: I find that my levels of DA exponentially decrease by a power of 42 when I stop talking about my levels of DA.

Yup, same here. Ignorance is bliss.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407848 - 01/12/14 10:59 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I've been relieved of allot of DA by way of the psychedelic spiritual death experience itself.
And by being desensitized by emotional trauma at the hands of what calls itself Baphomet.
I tried to will my own death and cross over or blink out routinely but it never happened.
I told the puppet masters that if they wanted to they could kill me and they tried.
But I kept seeing white light and all I could feel was eventual release from a hellish state.
So I have little anxiety anymore. If anything I have come to the realization that I will be immersed in peace at the time of death. (?)
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Kickle
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19407869 - 01/12/14 11:05 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I dunno I find it surprisingly hard to gauge, even behaviorally speaking.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Quote:
jimiandtheshroom27 said:
Quote:
In other words if you were abused or neglected your DA will be higher due to the fact that the world will seem much more threatening.
I get what you mean, and that is a real possibility. But i wonder is it also not possible that negative experiences in childhood could actually lower your anxiety about death? Suppose experience in childhood shapes you to be anxious and depressed. Doesn't death seem more welcoming from such a perspective? Don't happy people have more to lose?
Might depend on the nature of the experience. Wanting to be dead does not necessarily lower DA. If it did there were be a lot more suicides imo. A fuck of a lot more.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19408204 - 01/12/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Assuming you believe DA exists.
I think your personal levels or experiences of DA are mostly set by your early childhood experiences, as in did you feel secure in your family, were you nurtured well and anxieties placated.
In other words if you were abused or neglected your DA will be higher due to the fact that the world will seem much more threatening.
What say you?
Is it the DA that varies or the ability to deal with and handle such anxieties? I imagine a poorer childhood would be decreasing the latter and the likelihood of healthy defenses rather than having an increase of death anxiety in any literal sense.
Edited by Tropism (01/12/14 01:01 PM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
Penelope_Tree said: I find that my levels of DA exponentially decrease by a power of 42 when I stop talking about my levels of DA.
Becker ftw.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19408259 - 01/12/14 12:56 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Reasoning behind a fear or death is as logical as fearing the sunrise.. it will happen, you cannot do too much about it. Being fearless is not the equal to being careless, still, fear of the inevitable is pure idiocy.. it only adds to one's suffering.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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jimiandtheshroom27
Lost in endless spirals.


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19408290 - 01/12/14 01:05 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wanting to be dead does not necessarily lower DA.
Good point.
-------------------- Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light Or just another lost angel? City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon
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Icelander
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icyus]
#19408300 - 01/12/14 01:09 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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DA is both logical and illogical and has nothing to do with whether it is felt. Unless you're going to make a case for a totally logical human. And as much DA is unconscious or subconscious most don't even know when they are feeling it and exhibiting it . At least according to Becker and the TMT folk. They make a really compelling case and most here have now accepted the reality of it. Try reading Beckers "Denial of Death" or google Terror Management Theory and do some reading. See if you don't agree.
It's so easy to claim no fear of death when it's not staring you in the face. This is just one tiny way people bs themselves.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19408326 - 01/12/14 01:17 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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My mind has been mostly consumed by death anxiety for as long as I can remember, the past year has been less so but I don't really view that as a good thing. Better to be aware of my impending demise and ready to take it all in perspective
As far as childhood, took a lot of beatings as a child, was routinely starved for days or weeks at a time, wasn't allowed outside and would be severely beaten for going out when I did, had a big family and all of them except for one sister were a bunch of evil pricks. Did most of the cleaning at home (which would often consume my day as much as work does now) in between beatings and/or shit talk. Have some fond memories of being dragged out of bed by my hair and thrown into the bathtub where I would be beaten with a thick leather belt studded with metal balls.
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icyus]
#19408372 - 01/12/14 01:28 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said: Reasoning behind a fear or death is as logical as fearing the sunrise.. it will happen, you cannot do too much about it. Being fearless is not the equal to being careless, still, fear of the inevitable is pure idiocy.. it only adds to one's suffering.
What will you think of this statement when you're bleeding out on the pavement? One has to be very sheltered to think they're beyond death anxiety, sheltered and distracted.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said: I've been relieved of allot of DA by way of the psychedelic spiritual death experience itself.
And by being desensitized by emotional trauma at the hands of what calls itself Baphomet.
I tried to will my own death and cross over or blink out routinely but it never happened.
I told the puppet masters that if they wanted to they could kill me and they tried.
But I kept seeing white light and all I could feel was eventual release from a hellish state.
So I have little anxiety anymore. If anything I have come to the realization that I will be immersed in peace at the time of death. (?)
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Icyus said: Reasoning behind a fear or death is as logical as fearing the sunrise.. it will happen, you cannot do too much about it. Being fearless is not the equal to being careless, still, fear of the inevitable is pure idiocy.. it only adds to one's suffering.
What will you think of this statement when you're bleeding out on the pavement? One has to be very sheltered to think they're beyond death anxiety, sheltered and distracted.
I think what you are saying is that faced with immanent violence and death you would expect a subject to be anxious; and that is a healthy conjecture.
I would agree, this makes sense.
it does not suggest that the subject - through his or her life - was anticipating this conjectured immanent issue, and therefore always held onto the anxiety.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said: My mind has been mostly consumed by death anxiety for as long as I can remember, the past year has been less so but I don't really view that as a good thing. Better to be aware of my impending demise and ready to take it all in perspective
As far as childhood, took a lot of beatings as a child, was routinely starved for days or weeks at a time, wasn't allowed outside and would be severely beaten for going out when I did, had a big family and all of them except for one sister were a bunch of evil pricks. Did most of the cleaning at home (which would often consume my day as much as work does now) in between beatings and/or shit talk. Have some fond memories of being dragged out of bed by my hair and thrown into the bathtub where I would be beaten with a thick leather belt studded with metal balls.

Thanks for sharing, it takes courage to do so. 
At least it does for me, being a case for Freud and having been semi-bullied.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
it does not suggest that the subject - through his or her life - was anticipating this conjectured immanent issue, and therefore always held onto the anxiety.
Either way its engrained in their subconscious and has kept them alive long enough to be of eligible age to register on these forums. The situation above isn't when they will experience death anxiety but when they realize that they've only been ignoring it
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Thanks for sharing, it takes courage to do so. 
At least it does for me, being a case for Freud and having been semi-bullied.
I'm actually pretty well adjusted emotionally, talking about growing up in that environment isn't difficult because its really ordinary on a global scale.
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended


Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 5,401
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
FishOilTheKid said: I've been relieved of allot of DA by way of the psychedelic spiritual death experience itself.
And by being desensitized by emotional trauma at the hands of what calls itself Baphomet.
I tried to will my own death and cross over or blink out routinely but it never happened.
I told the puppet masters that if they wanted to they could kill me and they tried.
But I kept seeing white light and all I could feel was eventual release from a hellish state.
So I have little anxiety anymore. If anything I have come to the realization that I will be immersed in peace at the time of death. (?)
Will you post the lyrics...??
IAMTHEMASTER
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
it does not suggest that the subject - through his or her life - was anticipating this conjectured immanent issue, and therefore always held onto the anxiety.
Either way its engrained in their subconscious and has kept them alive long enough to be of eligible age to register on these forums. The situation above isn't when they will experience death anxiety but when they realize that they've only been ignoring it
So you think that a person's entire life hangs on that hook, and is only enduring because of that hook. OK. you can think what you want. I have come to admire that protplasm works, cells work, tissues and organs work, and they all work and stay alive without that hook. So I prefer to consider that Life does not require DA.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: So you think that a person's entire life hangs on that hook, and is only enduring because of that hook. OK. you can think what you want. I have come to admire that protplasm works, cells work, tissues and organs work, and they all work and stay alive without that hook. So I prefer to consider that Life does not require DA.
Like a jock full of fish hooks, I admire your tenacity.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
FishOilTheKid said: I've been relieved of allot of DA by way of the psychedelic spiritual death experience itself.
And by being desensitized by emotional trauma at the hands of what calls itself Baphomet.
I tried to will my own death and cross over or blink out routinely but it never happened.
I told the puppet masters that if they wanted to they could kill me and they tried.
But I kept seeing white light and all I could feel was eventual release from a hellish state.
So I have little anxiety anymore. If anything I have come to the realization that I will be immersed in peace at the time of death. (?)
Will you post the lyrics...??
IAMTHEMASTER
NOIWILLNOTGOFUCKYOURSELF
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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FishOilTheKid
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander] 3
#19408550 - 01/12/14 02:14 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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What are we covering here not covered in your 1,127 other DA threads?
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Repertoire89
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
So you think that a person's entire life hangs on that hook, and is only enduring because of that hook. OK. you can think what you want. I have come to admire that protplasm works, cells work, tissues and organs work, and they all work and stay alive without that hook. So I prefer to consider that Life does not require DA.
Hooks and protoplasm?
Our instinct to fear death keeps us from taking risks which would eventually kill us, if someone has lived to come of age then they have that healthy fear to thank for it. All of this being subconscious for most.
Personally I prefer to think of death and indulge in that fear, to meditate on it and integrate it into a growing appreciation for life. By being aware of the reality of my situation, that I will eventually die and likely won't continue on in any way past that, I find everything put in perspective. Why spend my time working and living up to other people's expectations? Shit I've suffered enough, and death anxiety is a reminder of both this and that
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Icelander
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
it does not suggest that the subject - through his or her life - was anticipating this conjectured immanent issue, and therefore always held onto the anxiety.
Either way its engrained in their subconscious and has kept them alive long enough to be of eligible age to register on these forums. The situation above isn't when they will experience death anxiety but when they realize that they've only been ignoring it
So you think that a person's entire life hangs on that hook, and is only enduring because of that hook. OK. you can think what you want. I have come to admire that protplasm works, cells work, tissues and organs work, and they all work and stay alive without that hook. So I prefer to consider that Life does not require DA.
"Life" in general may not but that has little to do with a neo-cortex having it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icyus
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Icyus said: Reasoning behind a fear or death is as logical as fearing the sunrise.. it will happen, you cannot do too much about it. Being fearless is not the equal to being careless, still, fear of the inevitable is pure idiocy.. it only adds to one's suffering.
What will you think of this statement when you're bleeding out on the pavement? One has to be very sheltered to think they're beyond death anxiety, sheltered and distracted.
You reflect too much upon yourself, and thus you get irrasional... you need to trip more it seems..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Icelander
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icyus]
#19408705 - 01/12/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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nice
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icyus]
#19408912 - 01/12/14 03:48 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said:
You reflect too much upon yourself, and thus you get irrasional... you need to trip more it seems..
Projection & the old 'no true Scotsman'
Classic signs of denial
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absols
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Hooks and protoplasm?
Our instinct to fear death keeps us from taking risks which would eventually kill us, if someone has lived to come of age then they have that healthy fear to thank for it. All of this being subconscious for most.
Personally I prefer to think of death and indulge in that fear, to meditate on it and integrate it into a growing appreciation for life. By being aware of the reality of my situation, that I will eventually die and likely won't continue on in any way past that, I find everything put in perspective. Why spend my time working and living up to other people's expectations? Shit I've suffered enough, and death anxiety is a reminder of both this and that
personal experience are by definition detached totally from objective facts .. things are not personal outcomes
most of people lives has nothing to do with fears .. people that never fear could die old or young .. also for people that do fear they could die old or young .. also the quality of life has nothing to do with that
comfortable life could be the reality of anxious disorders persons more then miserable conditions of life
things or objective life is the constant fact .. fear or mortal conditions of being has nothing to do with constant state
also fear is not principally about death.. although I agree with your point there .. how a lot that we don't do is from meaning avoiding death
but it is exclusively a personal issue... that can be abused in absolutes ways of evil powers force..
while it is normal that a being cant think his death, his non being.. and when being is conscious so through knowing stable facts it become crazy to take risks of death .. but that is not healthy when death is the major fact of being.. so conscious is not conscious of anything if it is not present conscious act to that
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freeofthought
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: absols]
#19411824 - 01/13/14 10:19 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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I think it has less to do with early childhood experiences and more to do with experiences of loss in adulthood.
- Death of friends
- death of family
- illness
- injury
- near death experience
- recovery from addictions
These and more remind us of our own mentality and feed the death anxiety, making us want to leave our mark, imprint others and generally live life but also pay more attention to our health. Of course Ive seen some instances where people just "give up" and either off themselves instantaneously or slowly over many years....so Im not entirely sure...but I think for the most part if you take this case; Someone who miscarried a child, had about 20-30 of their friends die, lost their left arm in a wreck and drank for many years to deal with pain and finally got sober...is the sorta person I think would have more death anxiety, rather than someone still holding onto childhood anxieties....unless maybe those anxieties were also caused by loss/death.
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Icelander
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That's funny because I had an abusive anxiety ridden childhood but have seen almost no real death in my life until I was much older. I had tons of death anxiety all my life. If anything I have less now.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19411908 - 01/13/14 10:48 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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maybe your abusive childhood anxiety was related to violence and threats of violence (highly likely).
becker has encouraged you to extrapolate and elevate it to a more lofty status by coining "death anxiety" a final virtual knot that can only be untied by croaking.
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absols
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no I don't think the point has anything to do with loss
lost cant be a reason of anxiety when it can be the other way
some people enjoy the freedom of getting detached from things
the point could be about hateful forces .. like knowing how your move are objectively not welcome as you might think or feel about it
while consciously the point to fear is to be killed not death in general
so to face how you can be humiliated till death
why would you go out when you know this .. we as slave conditioned by force, are run like animals .. forced to do and not do certain things in life ..
conscious beings have a lot to do with true existence so they are relatively free .. so this can be very harmful and a major reason of serious hell of struggles which everyone avoid ... to face an absolute powerful negative force on your moves and being
also it is clear that animals fear .. so it is not about being anxious but more the sign of something to fear
it is funny how conscious wills keep meaning to justify fears as something we invent subjectively .. because conscious mean always to make business from possible claim that one is all, so being conscious become like a god a creator of any objective answers and things ..
animals couldn't invent fears ..
fear is only to present fact so always about negative else sense
in truth, self is always positive more that is how children rarely fear
Edited by absols (01/13/14 11:43 AM)
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19412151 - 01/13/14 11:53 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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Maybe fear and anxiety are related like pain and suffering. The first is a natural reaction, the second is something our neocortex is deluding us with. I always was curious about the unknown and dangerous, so I can't evaluate my level of DA. Of course I also feel fear, or the body reaction to some dangerous situation, but through the process of rationalization one can prevent the fear condensing as anxiety, especially with irrational fears, which DA clearly is one of those. But of course, on the other side, it's the mother of all fears, as all fears warn us or want to prevent us from harmful situations. It's just our mind, which over-styled it to some rational thing to fear hehe, while it's just only something inevitable, reaching out for our lives in many situations and various forms. It would be a failure to ignore it, so it would also be a failure to live by focusing on it
Edited by BlueCoyote (01/13/14 11:59 AM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: maybe your abusive childhood anxiety was related to violence and threats of violence (highly likely).
becker has encouraged you to extrapolate and elevate it to a more lofty status by coining "death anxiety" a final virtual knot that can only be untied by croaking.
No didn't experience much physical violence. It was emotional mostly.
Becker was dead so couldn't encourage me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19412771 - 01/13/14 02:50 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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contrarily you had experienced emotional violence and there was anxiety about it. you could have said it was a deathly intense anxiety, and you can add "deathly" to any adjective to stress how intense and terrifying it was.
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absols
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19412910 - 01/13/14 03:28 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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logically anxiety is from fears and fear is from death
if you don't die there is no reason to fear failure or loss
if there is no fear there is no reason to feel being anxious about anything we don't know or hate
but in facts, anxiety and fear are something else not related to death
so I think it is of truth freedom.. that is why usually honest people fear much more while only honest people seem to be anxious socially
as if truth is meaning certain situations to never accept as a way also that might save honest beings to still exist in true existence later to not be positively present through lies ways
existence must be true so absolutely right for sure
which confirm my sense about fear .. that fear is the only present conscious individual true sense of being
it is never but now and individually happening through conscious of else presence negatively
like what it becomes clear that humans cannot kill evil as it comes from supernatural forces
so in evil situations what is related to powers means or forceful wills humans would look suffering from certain disorders of being
for what evil throw right conscious on the ground to kill or enslave negatively as it wont support their selves and truth which is never anyone but always infinite objective fact would leave the individual alone mostly where it cannot be free
Edited by absols (01/13/14 03:49 PM)
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Icelander
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and?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19413189 - 01/13/14 04:30 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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so it's an adverbial expression it invokes finality and ultimatum it is the child who cried wolf.
it does not .m. .e. .a. .n. anything.
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Icelander
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what?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19413337 - 01/13/14 05:13 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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it sounds more scary than if you dont use the word death in it.
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elgatogordo
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: so do you have a new angle on this? I thought we had wrung the life out of this substantially unsupported theorem.
On the one hand, you have personal association to emotional history with (pleasure and) pain that will drive decisions.
On the other hand, you do have flight or fight, which is an adrenaline type of reflex to perceived bodily painful encounters or threats.
FoF applies to virtually all vertebrates and some invertebrates: 99.9% of those species exhibiting the FoF reaction seem to have no conceptual death reference.
simple minds go like this - let me translate: "eat eat eat.... run away! run away!"
I would bet you are overweight.
these are the thoughts of cows mine have a bit more range: "money money money, drugs drugs drugs, sex, sex, sex, art art art, books, movies, computers run away, run away"
-------------------- "To those who doubt - your wounds will never heal To those who question my creation - I'm not real"
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usulpsychonaut


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19414120 - 01/13/14 07:58 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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I live with constant high levels of death anxiety. I can't shake it. Just stressing all the time and there is no cure, only relief, getting pissed and stoned.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said: I live with constant high levels of death anxiety. I can't shake it. Just stressing all the time and there is no cure, only relief, getting pissed and stoned.
IMO and experience it's nigh on impossible to shake it. Once you are hard wired to feel it as a basic root program even trying to change it usually brings panic. Drugs, wisely used can offer some relief but it's a slippery slope as I'm sure you know. I find the best relief is in total acceptance and no efforts to change. Meditation and relaxation exercises must be pursued diligently and over a long period to have much effect but if you can manage that it helps also.
I know some of what you are feeling. You have my total empathy on this for what it's worth. Your honesty continues to blow me away.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Forest Sprite
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Re: You're level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19414746 - 01/13/14 10:03 PM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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I'm young. I don't look forward to my death. Letting go of everyone I love and all the memories and basically everything that made me, me. That's kinda scary. But I will accept it when it happens. I just don't want it to be anytime soon. I feel like when the time comes I will be ready. Dmt has given me an idea of what I might go through during those final moments. I personally believe that life on earth is just a part of the equation and death isn't the end. Although it certainly will be the end of me as a person.
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cez

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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander] 1
#19415481 - 01/14/14 01:38 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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Right now my da feels low. Maybe because I have close to nothing which is both liberating and depressing 
And I fall in the latter category of your op. I was abused as a youth. Molded to what I wasn't. Denied of the things that interested me. Pushed in directions that I felt obliged to continue in.
I think the opposite of your op. If you have a loving family that stresses your importance you will feel a stronger attachment to this world, resulting in a higher fear of death.
But if I could switch my childhood for a randomly selected one, id keep mine. I didn't have it nearly as bad as I think others do.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said: I live with constant high levels of death anxiety. I can't shake it. Just stressing all the time and there is no cure, only relief, getting pissed and stoned.
Why do you think relief is only in the form of getting pissed and stoned? I think there's a flaw in your logic of relief.
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usulpsychonaut


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: cez]
#19415623 - 01/14/14 02:59 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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I have no talent for getting with women that I see and lust for.
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Repertoire89
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: so it's an adverbial expression it invokes finality and ultimatum it is the child who cried wolf.
it does not .m. .e. .a. .n. anything.
The real threat that death poses makes it linger at the end of any worry, there would be no need for any worries without death.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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There's nothing but worries if there's no death.
Death is the seemingly permanent out to all our worries. This life would be ever more brutal it never ended.
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: cez]
#19415964 - 01/14/14 05:47 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: There's nothing but worries if there's no death.
Death is the seemingly permanent out to all our worries. This life would be ever more brutal it never ended.
I don't think it would ever get started
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redgreenvines
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: so it's an adverbial expression it invokes finality and ultimatum it is the child who cried wolf.
it does not .m. .e. .a. .n. anything.
The real threat that death poses makes it linger at the end of any worry, there would be no need for any worries without death.
I do not buy oversimplification like that. I also do not buy organized religion, for the same reason... i.e. since it is not patently clear that god does not exist then god does exist and you owe me tithe as his rep.
D.A. is the same big zero to me i.e. god is death or god is life no matter, I give you this message so I am son of god.
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Icelander
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I never seem to be able to figure out what you're talking about. 
I don't see the correlation between religion for which there is no evidence and DA for which there is some evidence.
It's like equating chemistry and the easter bunny.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19416174 - 01/14/14 07:20 AM (10 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
no matter, I give you this message so I am son of god.

Interesting where this conjecture is taking us. How does this apply to me thinking to myself about my inevitable doom?
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I do not buy oversimplification like that.
The details of that example are abstract and redundant, I left you a tidy summation you can disagree with.
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redgreenvines
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Quote:
Icelander said: I never seem to be able to figure out what you're talking about. 
I don't see the correlation between religion for which there is no evidence and DA for which there is some evidence.
It's like equating chemistry and the easter bunny.
there is evidence that people are afraid of death - this is true, and they do get anxious with that fear - also true. but to then say that all anxiety is fear of death or DA is a mis-aligned syllogism:
i.e. bananas have yellow skins with some black marks when they are ripe, bees also have yellow skins with some black marks. therefore bees are bananas. and by virtue of logic avoid bananas because you will get stung since even a dead bee can sting you.
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
no matter, I give you this message so I am son of god.

Interesting where this conjecture is taking us. How does this apply to me thinking to myself about my inevitable doom?
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I do not buy oversimplification like that.
The details of that example are abstract and redundant, I left you a tidy summation you can disagree with.
it takes us to the realm of someone seeing the linkage (false or true, backwards logic or not) that DA exists and is therefore (erroneously) THE fundamental question.
Now this someone (like any religious nut) will declare rectitude and attempt to gather a following (which proves how right they really are - after all if 1000 people believe them then they are certainly right)
It's just how I see it when I take away the emotional attachment to the theory.
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LunarEclipse
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I never seem to be able to figure out what you're talking about. 
I don't see the correlation between religion for which there is no evidence and DA for which there is some evidence.
It's like equating chemistry and the easter bunny.
there is evidence that people are afraid of death - this is true, and they do get anxious with that fear - also true. but to then say that all anxiety is fear of death or DA is a mis-aligned syllogism:
i.e. bananas have yellow skins with some black marks when they are ripe, bees also have yellow skins with some black marks. therefore bees are bananas. and by virtue of logic avoid bananas because you will get stung since even a dead bee can sting you.
The details of that example are abstract and redundant, I left you a tidy summation you can disagree with.
it takes us to the realm of someone seeing the linkage (false or true, backwards logic or not) that DA exists and is therefore (erroneously) THE fundamental question.
Now this someone (like any religious nut) will declare rectitude and attempt to gather a following (which proves how right they really are - after all if 1000 people believe them then they are certainly right)
It's just how I see it when I take away the emotional attachment to the theory.
The Cult Of Death Anxiety?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
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but to then say that all anxiety is fear of death or DA is a mis-aligned syllogism:
Please show me where I said this?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19416620 - 01/14/14 10:04 AM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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so you now might say that DA is not the root of all anxiety?
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Icelander
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I'm admitted to that possibility for a long time here. Where have you been?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19417008 - 01/14/14 11:50 AM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Assuming you believe DA exists.
I think your personal levels or experiences of DA are mostly set by your early childhood experiences, as in did you feel secure in your family, were you nurtured well and anxieties placated.
In other words if you were abused or neglected your DA will be higher due to the fact that the world will seem much more threatening.
What say you?
For sure, was raised by a single, introverted working-professional mother. My dad lived a good 1,000 miles away in Florida, and no other extended family within a couple hundred miles. Aside from my mum and brother, there just weren't a ton of people around. Plenty of my memories between the ages of 3-5yo being shipped off to daycare etc., which definitely resulted in some abandonment insecurities. My mother was an incredibly responsible lady, but if she didn't show up right on time at 5pm to pick me up I'd start getting pretty anxious, entirely uncertain of my future if something happened and she didn't show up. Otherwise, life was pretty happy throughout my childhood with her and my bro.
On drugs like MDMA I get this incredibly safe, loved nurtured feeling almost as if I'm being cradled by a loving parent. It's not regressive or anything, I feel like an exceptionally sane adult, but it shows me something of what a more positive "bio-survival imprint" would have been like, had my life been full of loving, nurturing people all day.
I wonder if it was an even more troubled childhood if the hardcore opiods might would actually work for me. I've tried most of them at reasonably heavy doses, and aside from some euphoria mixed with some nausea, they just don't do that much for me. I think life has been pretty much okay that regressing to some pre-ego state where I'm floating towards safety just doesn't hold that much appeal in my life. Meanwhile drugs that increase mental stimulus feed me immensely.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19417022 - 01/14/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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OK maybe I have missed one or two posts over the last 10 years, (maybe because it seemed to just be a video).
Quote:
Icelander said: I'm admitted to that possibility for a long time here. Where have you been?
So when you admit that do you make the two conflicting statements at the same time (same thread, same post) or in alternation (different posts)?
yeah, I never noticed you on both sides of this issue at all, just Becker this and Becker that.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Forget your umbrella today, red?
Death anxiety is a useful, interesting model to analyze one's life. It illuminates some things, reduces and oversimplifies others, and also has the potential to become banal and ridiculous, much like every other model.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
Edited by CosmicJoke (01/14/14 12:53 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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like a convenient Bogey Man for atheist and agnostic adults?
(Christians can just use the Devil and the Bible and other Semites can reference God)
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: like a convenient Bogey Man for atheist and agnostic adults?
(Christians can just use the Devil and the Bible and other Semites can reference God)
Only to the extent that you use it to justify and explain away your neurosis and avoid dealing with it. For those into self-experimentation, it's another model in which to analyze the data. Christians have their own psychological system of archetypes and myths, but very few have a clue what to do with it in my estimation, for the rest it runs their life.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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On drugs like MDMA I get this incredibly safe, loved nurtured feeling almost as if I'm being cradled by a loving parent. It's not regressive or anything, I feel like an exceptionally sane adult, but it shows me something of what a more positive "bio-survival imprint" would have been like, had my life been full of loving, nurturing people all day.
But even more, a world without violence.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: OK maybe I have missed one or two posts over the last 10 years, (maybe because it seemed to just be a video).
Quote:
Icelander said: I'm admitted to that possibility for a long time here. Where have you been?
So when you admit that do you make the two conflicting statements at the same time (same thread, same post) or in alternation (different posts)?
yeah, I never noticed you on both sides of this issue at all, just Becker this and Becker that.
What two conflicting statements???
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
it takes us to the realm of someone seeing the linkage (false or true, backwards logic or not) that DA exists and is therefore (erroneously) THE fundamental question.
Now this someone (like any religious nut) will declare rectitude and attempt to gather a following (which proves how right they really are - after all if 1000 people believe them then they are certainly right)
It's just how I see it when I take away the emotional attachment to the theory.
Well that can make sense, I'm not really attached to the idea of DA personally. It seems to me a fundamental in life, something which motivates the overall plot frame but not necessarily the details. Was drunk and tripping on acid earlier in this thread, so not sure if I came out more earnest about the theory than I actually am
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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If you think it's fundamental then that makes it a relatively important theory imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19418162 - 01/14/14 04:36 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: If you think it's fundamental then that makes it a relatively important theory imo.
It seems pretty important and real to me, but I think a lot of behavior slips through the gap. Larger anxieties I think eventually tie into DA, smaller ones maybe - maybe not
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Pretty significant then. There is likely a few small issues in life not affected. I just can't think of any right off the top. Maybe RGVs can supply them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19418315 - 01/14/14 05:04 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: On drugs like MDMA I get this incredibly safe, loved nurtured feeling almost as if I'm being cradled by a loving parent. It's not regressive or anything, I feel like an exceptionally sane adult, but it shows me something of what a more positive "bio-survival imprint" would have been like, had my life been full of loving, nurturing people all day.
But even more, a world without violence.
I Don't Care What They Say I Won't Stay In A World Without love. Unless you fucking cut off my god fucking damn MDMA Fix.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (01/14/14 05:05 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19418686 - 01/14/14 06:05 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Pretty significant then. There is likely a few small issues in life not affected. I just can't think of any right off the top. Maybe RGVs can supply them.
I feel so abused (but there is a great moon out.)
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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the great rgv enigma, in my estimation, is that you use your own unconventional patterns of language. perhaps it's to convey your own unadulterated thought, originating from your own personal experience, rather than the hypnotic, meaningless semantic gymnastics that set trends. you avoid maps without a reference point in your life as it is, and this simple, yet abstract, style could be considered commendable.
clearly you don't get that sense of communion when you feel understood by others, and derive it elsewhere 
but sometimes one has to wonder if you speak so cryptically to be apprehended as wiser than you really are. it can be so vague as so that anyone could project their own meaning to what you've said and find it enlightening, much like a horoscope.
nobody will ever know.... i call this the gomp effect
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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And Jupiter on the upper left. I can see three of her moons. Moon is too full for good scope viewing. All the craters get washed out by the light. Best viewing is a half moon or less. You can get some cool view then. But to the naked eye a full moon is beautiful
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19419110 - 01/14/14 07:17 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: On drugs like MDMA I get this incredibly safe, loved nurtured feeling almost as if I'm being cradled by a loving parent. It's not regressive or anything, I feel like an exceptionally sane adult, but it shows me something of what a more positive "bio-survival imprint" would have been like, had my life been full of loving, nurturing people all day.
But even more, a world without violence.
And through all the turmoil part of me wonders if it were people like you who had say risen children in all the ways we think is neccessary and well enough that their children do the same, I wonder if its that kind of change in the gene(pool) that might in the long run be the only way to have human stability wherein we have this positive "bio-survival imprint." Wherein we might find peace as dasine.
Yes, I realize while I do prepare for an accidental child (as sex is great of course) the underlying desire for one is rooted deeply in mine and my species death anxieties, yet it is only the small addition of hope from being a completely narcissistic to a noble action. I mean really, it's not as if child-bearing is truly that positive of a hedonistic value. It is a sacrifice. One could hope if done well with some over all benefit to this world.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Tropism]
#19419255 - 01/14/14 07:41 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Most of the ones who might raise a somewhat healthy child don't want to do it for all the right reasons.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Tropism]
#19419261 - 01/14/14 07:42 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said:
And through all the turmoil part of me wonders if it were people like you who had say risen children in all the ways we think is neccessary and well enough that their children do the same, I wonder if its that kind of change in the gene(pool) that might in the long run be the only way to have human stability wherein we have this positive "bio-survival imprint." Wherein we might find peace as dasine.
Yes, I realize while I do prepare for an accidental child (as sex is great of course) the underlying desire for one is rooted deeply in mine and my species death anxieties, yet it is only the small addition of hope from being a completely narcissistic to a noble action. I mean really, it's not as if child-bearing is truly that positive of a hedonistic value. It is a sacrifice. One could hope if done well with some over all benefit to this world.
In the Indian Classical field there are families of musicians, lineages of great musicians stretching back hundreds of years. The 20th century has left most of those lineages without a heir, from hundreds of Ustads and Pandits to maybe a dozen who live up to their parents and grandparents. This measures up in tragedy right up with death for me.
Whatever we do and setup for the future, it won't last.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19419310 - 01/14/14 07:50 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Most of the ones who might raise a somewhat healthy child don't want to do it for all the right reasons.
Yeah I think you're missing my point, but I realize now my point was a what if, I guess. Having realized that I have much less motivation on the subject. We can all imagine that human potential, and I wonder if maybe breeding the intelligent like yourselves (assuming great parenting skill to boot) would lead to it, but I don't know if we can escape what we are. Curse this imagination with it's soothing utopias, and yet also, holy fuck thank you.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said: In the Indian Classical field there are families of musicians, lineages of great musicians stretching back hundreds of years. The 20th century has left most of those lineages without a heir, from hundreds of Ustads and Pandits to maybe a dozen who live up to their parents and grandparents. This measures up in tragedy right up with death for me.
Whatever we do and setup for the future, it won't last.

That leaves me to guess you must really cherish those music, yeah? I hear ya. Beautiful intricate pattens might be coming to an end soon. Oh, Discordia, it has a beauty of its own.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Tropism]
#19420258 - 01/14/14 11:12 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Most of the ones who might raise a somewhat healthy child don't want to do it for all the right reasons.
Yeah I think you're missing my point, but I realize now my point was a what if, I guess. Having realized that I have much less motivation on the subject. We can all imagine that human potential, and I wonder if maybe breeding the intelligent like yourselves (assuming great parenting skill to boot) would lead to it, but I don't know if we can escape what we are. Curse this imagination with it's soothing utopias, and yet also, holy fuck thank you.
I'm not intelligent and have nothing of importance to give the world. I'm a big fat zero.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19420292 - 01/14/14 11:18 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Nice try Icelander 
I recall you admitting something along the lines of being cognizant of all the viewers that come round these parts. We all know you are the beast within the cave of PS&P for the most part (you know this too I think)
At the most minute level of knowing the ego structure behind the name, you and I/all that visit here know your importance here.
How would we know about DA otherwise?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: cez]
#19420322 - 01/14/14 11:25 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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That contribution hardly makes me important imo. But hey I'll take the perk.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: cez]
#19420326 - 01/14/14 11:26 PM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: Nice try Icelander 
I recall you admitting something along the lines of being cognizant of all the viewers that come round these parts. We all know you are the beast within the cave of PS&P for the most part (you know this too I think)
At the most minute level of knowing the ego structure behind the name, you and I/all that visit here know your importance here.
How would we know about DA otherwise?
28 times later you too can be a beast.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Can't wait!
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: the great rgv enigma, in my estimation, is that you use your own unconventional patterns of language. perhaps it's to convey your own unadulterated thought, originating from your own personal experience, rather than the hypnotic, meaningless semantic gymnastics that set trends. you avoid maps without a reference point in your life as it is, and this simple, yet abstract, style could be considered commendable.
clearly you don't get that sense of communion when you feel understood by others, and derive it elsewhere 
but sometimes one has to wonder if you speak so cryptically to be apprehended as wiser than you really are. it can be so vague as so that anyone could project their own meaning to what you've said and find it enlightening, much like a horoscope.
nobody will ever know.... i call this the gomp effect 
I don't blame you for lumping me with gomp - his pure hearted babble has been very refreshing to me. I try to be incisive in a way that applies common sense and direct experiencing. Life in the jungle you know.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19421739 - 01/15/14 08:01 AM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I'm not intelligent and have nothing of importance to give the world. I'm a big fat zero.
Oh, come now.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: the great rgv enigma, in my estimation, is that you use your own unconventional patterns of language. perhaps it's to convey your own unadulterated thought, originating from your own personal experience, rather than the hypnotic, meaningless semantic gymnastics that set trends. you avoid maps without a reference point in your life as it is, and this simple, yet abstract, style could be considered commendable.
clearly you don't get that sense of communion when you feel understood by others, and derive it elsewhere 
but sometimes one has to wonder if you speak so cryptically to be apprehended as wiser than you really are. it can be so vague as so that anyone could project their own meaning to what you've said and find it enlightening, much like a horoscope.
nobody will ever know.... i call this the gomp effect 
I don't blame you for lumping me with gomp - his pure hearted babble has been very refreshing to me. I try to be incisive in a way that applies common sense and direct experiencing. Life in the jungle you know.
Gomp
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Tropism]
#19421782 - 01/15/14 08:14 AM (10 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I'm not intelligent and have nothing of importance to give the world. I'm a big fat zero.
Oh, come now.
Or so the hope goes.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: On drugs like MDMA I get this incredibly safe, loved nurtured feeling almost as if I'm being cradled by a loving parent. It's not regressive or anything, I feel like an exceptionally sane adult, but it shows me something of what a more positive "bio-survival imprint" would have been like, had my life been full of loving, nurturing people all day.
I wonder if it was an even more troubled childhood if the hardcore opiods might would actually work for me. I've tried most of them at reasonably heavy doses, and aside from some euphoria mixed with some nausea, they just don't do that much for me. I think life has been pretty much okay that regressing to some pre-ego state where I'm floating towards safety just doesn't hold that much appeal in my life. Meanwhile drugs that increase mental stimulus feed me immensely.
Interesting. I literally feel just mild euphoria, nothing worth writing home about, from MDMA. And I've had good, pure MDMA where my friends who've taken some from the same batch are falling over each other talking about how empathetic they are.
Now opiates, on the other hand. That nirvana-like bliss where nothing really matters anymore really just sticks it to me. Amphetamines provide good impetus to write essays, as well as clean my house, but the euphoria is short-lived and the crash and resulting pain isn't worth the initial high IMO.
For what it's worth, I had an excellent childhood and wasn't abused at all.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: deCypher]
#19425825 - 01/16/14 12:49 AM (10 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: On drugs like MDMA I get this incredibly safe, loved nurtured feeling almost as if I'm being cradled by a loving parent. It's not regressive or anything, I feel like an exceptionally sane adult, but it shows me something of what a more positive "bio-survival imprint" would have been like, had my life been full of loving, nurturing people all day.
I wonder if it was an even more troubled childhood if the hardcore opiods might would actually work for me. I've tried most of them at reasonably heavy doses, and aside from some euphoria mixed with some nausea, they just don't do that much for me. I think life has been pretty much okay that regressing to some pre-ego state where I'm floating towards safety just doesn't hold that much appeal in my life. Meanwhile drugs that increase mental stimulus feed me immensely.
Interesting. I literally feel just mild euphoria, nothing worth writing home about, from MDMA. And I've had good, pure MDMA where my friends who've taken some from the same batch are falling over each other talking about how empathetic they are.
Now opiates, on the other hand. That nirvana-like bliss where nothing really matters anymore really just sticks it to me. Amphetamines provide good impetus to write essays, as well as clean my house, but the euphoria is short-lived and the crash and resulting pain isn't worth the initial high IMO.
For what it's worth, I had an excellent childhood and wasn't abused at all.
Cannabis is incredible for me to write essays, can write all night as if it was a hobby and lose myself in it... But as far as amphetamines go, milder amphetamines like adderall were good for a long study session, while harder amphetamines like methamphetamine made me sex totally primal... MDMA is not much like other amphetamines for me, is very innocent and childlike - I might be in a bed naked cuddling, but no thought of sex on my mind...
Opiates regardless of dose....
Your alternative anecdotal evidence is only fair, I respect it
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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cez


Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Tha fuck is a gomp?
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Your level of DA [Re: cez] 1
#19425907 - 01/16/14 01:14 AM (10 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: Tha fuck is a gomp?
The gomp is a historical period of darkness within The Shroomery between P&S and PS&P... (not really)
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Your level of DA [Re: Icelander]
#19426664 - 01/16/14 08:09 AM (10 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I'm not intelligent and have nothing of importance to give the world. I'm a big fat zero.
Oh, come now.
Or so the hope goes.
nice
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!



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Re: Your level of DA [Re: cez]
#19436636 - 01/18/14 07:14 AM (10 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: Tha fuck is a gomp?
That would be a me! :p
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-------------------- Disclaimer!?
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