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InvisibleAsante
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: jimmyguy]
    #19407090 - 01/12/14 06:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

can we compaire the pain and fear of death of an animal to collecting apples.?




Collecting apples is akin to collecting eggs from a bird. The apple tree has been selectively bred to produce so big and so many apples that its branches bend and the whole stature of the organism is miniaturized to aid the picking, and the chicken has been selectively bred to lay an egg a day, something that burdens the chicken and serves no practical purpose for the chicken because it cant hatch and raise them all, anymore than a tree needs to devote so much of its life energy to produce way too many way too big apples.

Both organisms have been deformed by man to deliver more heavier offspring than it can sustain and both are relieved off that burden when the surplus offspring are being taken away by man, the cicken cant raise 60 chicks continuously competing for its food and if all the apples fell from the appletree this overload of offspring would harm the mother tree's survival options by competing for nutrients and light.

So, both the tree and the chicken experience suffering and relief by the unnatural situation created by man and both would have been better off without mankind's medding with them.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19407115 - 01/12/14 06:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
My [...] does.



IMO, plants are different because they lack a CNS and a consciousness (I'm sure you could argue that they do have some form of consciousness, but I'm not buying it. It's not comparable to animals with CNSs), and therefore they have no concept of suffering and no will to live. The same goes for fetuses in the first few weeks after conceptions, and also sperm cells, which is why it's okay to eat semen and take morning after pills.





Those are all just justifications. Plants avoid harm and seek out favorable conditions just like animals do. Taking a morning after pill in some cases induces abortion of a zygote that would have grown to a full organism, so you cut a sentient conscious organism short in the early stage of its temporal cycle when it AT THAT TIME does not display traits you deem essential, but would if you didnt abort it.

Taking a morning after pill makes you a murderer. And I think that is OK under certain circumstances, but denying the fact that you commit murder is not OK, because it reduces the affair to a nonevent, which its not as you ARE cutting a life short. The decision to take a morning after pill should include the factual reality that you are committing infanticide at its most early stage. Its not jabbing a cloatheshanger pin up the eggsac, its not drowning your baby in its bath, its not shooting your son in the face, but its still the same type of act.

And I think, that can be justifiable under certain circumstances, just don't muddle the issue by denying a lifeform at its most vulnerable its significance in this world.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Asante]
    #19407121 - 01/12/14 06:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Sure. Technically early-stage abortion is murder, as is pulling the plug on a brain-dead person, but I think there's a huge moral difference between those and murdering a feeling, suffering, experiencing creature. Since you can't live on earth without stepping on someone, I'd rather choose to step on those that barely feel pain.


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InvisibleApollyphelion Happy Birthday!
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Asante]
    #19407124 - 01/12/14 06:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I fail to see how shooting your son in the face is equal to taking a morning after pill. I find compassion at the molecular level completely absurd.


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19407130 - 01/12/14 06:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
I fail to see how shooting your son in the face is equal to taking a morning after pill. I find compassion at the molecular level completely absurd.



y


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: k00laid]
    #19407137 - 01/12/14 06:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
I fail to see how shooting your son in the face is equal to taking a morning after pill. I find compassion at the molecular level completely absurd.



y



up


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Asante]
    #19407168 - 01/12/14 07:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Murder is great, meat is delicious, and screw the impotent pussies who say otherwise/
Things are put on this planet for me to slay and eat, and I give not a sideways fuck if they consent to it or not. Shouldn't taste so good if you don't wanna get put out of your misery with a .308 and then skinned and cut into pieces.


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OfflineHalluciNate
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: jimmyguy]
    #19407171 - 01/12/14 07:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jimmyguy said:
your ignorance feeds your sadisfactions,, may i say so.. maybe.
i just want to tell that animal protein is not the way for human... we are not meat eaters naturally. and except that arent you little sad for those poor animals, do you even think about how they feel, its a crime of soul. these poor friends are full feeded with hormones and other chemicals in some small place , to end up on your mounts faster.. please do search... you will see everything,
love, peace... :earth:



Jimmy... my guy. :facepalm3:

C'mon man. Calling a large group of people ignorant right off the bat is not going to help change their opinion on a subject.

You're correct on the stance, but highly lacking in the approach.

Explain what it is, and what it's about. And how you've made changes in your own life.

Instead of encouraging the readers to do some research, I'd recommend linking some interesting material.





Fat, Sick, and nearly Dead and Food matters are some great films about food. Available on Netflix.

Food Inc. and Forks over Knives are great watches as well.

:cookiemonster:

Putting down meat eaters is never the way. :nono:
They're people just like you, and I've bet you've eaten meat before. 

You're not better then they are just because of your diet.

Eating animals is a problem, but you're not going to solve it by posts like this.

Take a deep breath, and try again.  :awesomenod:


--------------------
We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.




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Offlinejimmyguy
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: KremrBigSikter]
    #19407180 - 01/12/14 07:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

brothers lets say so... there are clases of kingdoms.. animal, plant, fungal, and lets say human... you guys are at the point to say... plants and funguses are feeling the same things with an animal about to be grinded in frenzy. !!! give a break to yourselves and tell me what is "more" conscious .. if you are telling me an apple more conscious than a cow.. no word really. if i would cut your heads of to eat you (cannibalism) would you really compaire yourself to an apple about all that feelings. animals are pretty conscious compaire to plants with no consciousness... please.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19407181 - 01/12/14 07:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
I fail to see how shooting your son in the face is equal to taking a morning after pill. I find compassion at the molecular level completely absurd.





A zygote, a fertilized egg cell that often has divided several times already, is not "the molecular level" It is a living organism, complete in its own right, in its earliest stage of the life cycle.  Cutting that short is murder, murder being defined as the taking of the life of an organism.

The moment that sperm cell forces entry in the egg cell and releases its payload, and the genes it yields unite with those of the egg cell and the cell starts functioning as a whole, at that point an organism is created. Left to its devices, it will become a leech like clot, it will attain gender, organs and structural components separate out and take their appropriate places, then at a point the organism is expelled from the womb and develops further another twenty-five years t9o completew formation which is, then whithers, then dies. All that that body will be, the seat of that soul if indeed a soul exists, is present in that one fertilized egg, in that moment the genes of the halves combine and the reproductive cell becomes a zygote, a true organism.

THAT is the point where an organism is an organism and THAT is the point where you kill something if you damage it. Thats where the killing begins, if you end it there.

If you cum in your frying pan in a stoned experiment to make a cumelette, you are not killing something. Cum is like a chicken egg like you buy it, its an unfertilized half. But when the halves combine, then you get an organism and thats where the possibility of killing begins.

Expelling your developing offspring by taking an abortificant is an act of killing as much as shooting your son in the face is. Of course the latter matter is a whole lot more complex than that, but the root of the act, biological and possibly, karmically, is the same: you are killing your offspring.


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InvisibleMike_yy
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19407184 - 01/12/14 07:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Compassion seems to be an affliction in some people rather than an evolutionary advantage. No other species gives a shit, it wouldn't even be a concept were it not for us.
I'm sure originally it was for our advantage, but vegans take it to a whole new level to the point where it's detrimental.


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Offlinejimmyguy
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Registered: 01/07/14
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: HalluciNate]
    #19407187 - 01/12/14 07:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HalluciNate said:
Quote:

jimmyguy said:
your ignorance feeds your sadisfactions,, may i say so.. maybe.
i just want to tell that animal protein is not the way for human... we are not meat eaters naturally. and except that arent you little sad for those poor animals, do you even think about how they feel, its a crime of soul. these poor friends are full feeded with hormones and other chemicals in some small place , to end up on your mounts faster.. please do search... you will see everything,
love, peace... :earth:



Jimmy... my guy. :facepalm3:

C'mon man. Calling a large group of people ignorant right off the bat is not going to help change their opinion on a subject.

You're correct on the stance, but highly lacking in the approach.

Explain what it is, and what it's about. And how you've made changes in your own life.

Instead of encouraging the readers to do some research, I'd recommend linking some interesting material.





Fat, Sick, and nearly Dead and Food matters are some great films about food. Available on Netflix.

Food Inc. and Forks over Knives are great watches as well.

:cookiemonster:

Putting down meat eaters is never the way. :nono:
They're people just like you, and I've bet you've eaten meat before. 

You're not better then they are just because of your diet.

Eating animals is a problem, but you're not going to solve it by posts like this.

Take a deep breath, and try again.  :awesomenod:



hey brother ... you know i really thought people would understand and search. not just argue to show their feelings. buy i am not trying to change anything i am just telling, suggesting.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Mike_yy]
    #19407190 - 01/12/14 07:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Torkie said:
Compassion seems to be an affliction in some people rather than an evolutionary advantage. No other species gives a shit, it wouldn't even be a concept were it not for us.
I'm sure originally it was for our advantage, but vegans take it to a whole new level to the point where it's detrimental.



I'm doing great, but thanks for the concern.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #19407196 - 01/12/14 07:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That is an intentionally obtuse, disingenuous definition of murder.
I don't know many places that don't make a distinction between murder and killing, barring conservative lunatics trying to make a harebrained point. I know of exactly zero that define murder as "taking the life of an organism".
The difference lays in the intent of the action and whether or not it was committed against a human life.

Though I regularly disagree with you, I think you're a bit smarter than that, Wiccan.
I also think you are fully aware of the subtleties of the two definitions and are willingly overlooking that in order to further your weak point.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: jimmyguy]
    #19407225 - 01/12/14 07:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Animal protein consumption triggers the release of the cancer-promoting growth hormone IGF-1.




http://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production/


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: something super extreme]
    #19407232 - 01/12/14 07:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My point is pretty strong, but yes, using "murder" instead of "killing" was for effect, to spice up the discussion.

The point is solid biology though. A zygote is an organism and organisms can be killed.

If a 90yo is poisoned with morning after pills and dies people say "S/he lived a rich full life".  Killing a zygote robs that organism of the entire stretch of that rich full life. One could argue that that deprives the organism of a bigger thing, than killing it when the cycle is almost complete.

It shocks you because you're not used to thinking about it like that, but it DOES make a valid point.


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Offlinejimmyguy
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #19407243 - 01/12/14 07:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

Animal protein consumption triggers the release of the cancer-promoting growth hormone IGF-1.




http://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production/



thanks for this share brother.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: thelanzii]
    #19407245 - 01/12/14 07:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:






We have predator eyes. Would you care to explain why our eyes are mounted in the front of our skull as in almost all predators, instead of on the sides of the head like almost all prey animals?

Hint: it's because having your eyes mounted in the front of your head is more beneficial for tracking and killing prey.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: jimmyguy]
    #19407258 - 01/12/14 07:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jimmyguy said:
Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Quote:

Animal protein consumption triggers the release of the cancer-promoting growth hormone IGF-1.




http://nutritionfacts.org/video/protein-intake-and-igf-1-production/



thanks for this share brother.




No problem.:peace:


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Offlinejimmyguy
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Registered: 01/07/14
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Re: my dear friends be away of any kind of animal protein.. [Re: Heffy]
    #19407266 - 01/12/14 08:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:






We have predator eyes. Would you care to explain why our eyes are mounted in the front of our skull as in almost all predators, instead of on the sides of the head like almost all prey animals?

Hint: it's because having your eyes mounted in the front of your head is more beneficial for tracking and killing prey.




i dont think just because human eyes at front of face doesnt means that you are great hunter. if it was the case crocodiles would be true vegans.


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