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Invisiblequinn
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self inquiry..
    #19406933 - 01/12/14 05:05 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

how important do you think it is? do you find it useful?

it seems clear to me that most of us have blind spots.. also people can get themselves into a rut that only the help of someone else can get them out of..

agree? thoughts?


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19406979 - 01/12/14 05:35 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I'm so lost I wouldn't even know how or who to ask for directions.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19407020 - 01/12/14 05:56 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

i can tell ya where we're goin


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dripping with fantasy


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407023 - 01/12/14 05:56 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

What do you mean by self inquiry?
A questioning nature should be cultivated, without blind spots for sure.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407024 - 01/12/14 05:56 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

using the mind to tame the mind. seems ironic. gives me headaches too..


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19407028 - 01/12/14 05:59 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
I'm so lost I wouldn't even know how or who to ask for directions.




:thumbup:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn] * 2
    #19407042 - 01/12/14 06:07 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Who would miss the chance to ponder fear, treachery, hopelessness, and all the other delightful experiences.

Join the dark side. Mwhahah.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19407045 - 01/12/14 06:09 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
What do you mean by self inquiry?
A questioning nature should be cultivated, without blind spots for sure.




my definition of self inquiry in the op is reflecting back on yourself and thinking about your intentions, subconscious motivations, influences of your surroundings on your behavior etc

it gives me a headache too tbh


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Jaegar]
    #19407048 - 01/12/14 06:12 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

oh ive had my fun :satansmoking:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407098 - 01/12/14 06:42 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

what could work in this vein is as follows:

review tableaux of situations and consider if things should have played out differently based upon personal action having been different.

then devise a routine that you could practice, in order to change the personal behavior.

then consider if that effort is worth the trouble.

if it is worth the trouble begin devised program (practice) that alters the reflex pattern or habit.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19407114 - 01/12/14 06:48 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what could work in this vein is as follows:

review tableaux of situations and consider if things should have played out differently based upon personal action having been different.

then devise a routine that you could practice, in order to change the personal behavior.

then consider if that effort is worth the trouble.

if it is worth the trouble begin devised program (practice) that alters the reflex pattern or habit.




reading your post was barely worth the trouble.  sounds like work.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19407160 - 01/12/14 07:06 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

that's good advice, much better than my technique of reviewing why they couldnt have played out otherwise and hating yourself


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dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407185 - 01/12/14 07:22 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
that's good advice, much better than my technique of reviewing why they couldnt have played out otherwise and hating yourself




yeah good luck with your endless self improvement thought loops even with good advice from mr. green genes


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19407194 - 01/12/14 07:25 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

well frankly, like you im also too lazy :shrug2:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407205 - 01/12/14 07:28 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Its actually the way to true transcendence/ego death/awakening or what have you if you actually make the changes to your emotion/thought/mind system.

Then you don't come down.  Its as if you have permanently transcended the boundary of who you once were, FOREVER.  And you enter a new world of experience.  And I would argue that things like ESP and telepathy are enhanced after this progress.

If you want to destroy my sweater
Pull this thread as I walk away.
-Weezer


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Offlineabsols
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407307 - 01/12/14 08:15 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

the question is absurd .. self is infinite existence because it cant be but free so able to exist and do other things without stepping on else freedom things or present.. it can be funny what you are saying, as it is the opposed concept to  self fact ..

self is the you being because constant conscious so it is called self as you every instant the present no matter what you might be doing
so self is what is never something it is the reality of freedom that you alone are in being conscious

there is no inquiry of that because that value is the fact that it cant be any.. like if you want to stop and question you, then other you would be more false ... but also how can I say it .. you cannot question you ! it is you .. the absolute present .. like anything you would say is more you then the you you mean to talk about
you is the free self always the complete end one that moves consciously

if you want to correct something about you it must be indirectly through what you are doing with else so objectively in true existence realms or with others so relatively what you identify being alike to mean something about you objectively .. but not the self.. never
self is the free identity conscious

and no, when you are in a negative situation only else can help

existence is true, positive is the exclusive sense in truth, so if you are in negative state then you are possessed, away of being free then it is a fact of being inferior forever ... unless else intervene objectively positively

like for me the only positive intervention is to kill gods starting by the god that all humans know

the issue is what you don't admit that existence is true, and insist to mean existence as a will or creation simulations of beings... that is why you sound poor in meaning anything really

when to you, existence is a will or fake.. then it can be infinite different things ... so you cant conceive an objective thing ... then you will point something that you as a subject could mean seeing ... which would be not even something since relative .. that is why it cant be but through means of first degree intellectual platform.. so not even abstract value of means .. so nothing constant could be meant of you... no existence 


Edited by absols (01/12/14 09:12 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19407319 - 01/12/14 08:19 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
how important do you think it is? do you find it useful?

it seems clear to me that most of us have blind spots.. also people can get themselves into a rut that only the help of someone else can get them out of..

agree? thoughts?




duh


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSse
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19411964 - 01/13/14 11:07 AM (10 years, 17 days ago)

useful yeep but like you said if I was left to self inquiry without any help from outside then id prob still be left creating my own delusional/destructive perspectives... not that those aren't still there but they are much friendlier to my self and others.... one glace from another person before could send me in a whirlwind of conclusions and perceptions that I was so sure were true... like I could read minds flawlessly or something. Glad to be out of that stage, thanks to self inquiry... many many thanks to self inquiry... but the thanks all goes to the collective... because left to my self id prob still be living in a shed or in some alley way somewhere... thinking and concluding so many destructive patterns of thought... spouting delusion but Teflon blood so... let it flow :smile:



--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19428595 - 01/16/14 03:11 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
how important do you think it is? do you find it useful?

it seems clear to me that most of us have blind spots.. also people can get themselves into a rut that only the help of someone else can get them out of..

agree? thoughts?




I find myself happiest when I'm the least introspective.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: deCypher]
    #19429477 - 01/16/14 05:56 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Introspection can be very depressing and energy depleting (seemingly)...


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: circastes]
    #19429775 - 01/16/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

done right it's the only way to create an undercurrent of calm IME.  i kinda can't live without it.  life gets too boring and messy.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Hobozen]
    #19430161 - 01/16/14 08:28 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

"what am I tensing?"
seems to be my main question
then back to the breath


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn] * 1
    #19436224 - 01/18/14 02:48 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
how important do you think it is?




it is important if you seek self-realization, if you seek to realize the nature of yourself

if you want to realize the infinite, life, the absolute, reality, truth, the universe, the unknown, the nature of awareness, bliss, liberation, wisdom...  you understand that to get anywhere near understanding these things, you have to understand yourself as they are ultimately synonymous, so you inquire into the nature of yourself as it is

Quote:

do you find it useful?




beyond belief, but it's only 'useful', or even possible if you want the truth, if you seek self-realization
i find you have to have a strong interest in these things, you have to really want it, some say you have to want it like a drowning man wants his next breath

Quote:


it seems clear to me that most of us have blind spots.. also people can get themselves into a rut that only the help of someone else can get them out of..




in my experience communicating or ideally being around someone who has been practicing self-inquiry 'sucessfully' can help you practice it yourself, and in many cases it's a precursor for it

it can appear highly paradoxical because you have what you seek all along, you are the self you're inquiring into, which is the whole point of inquiring into it in the first place, to consciously realize oneself as it is, to realize what is all along as that alone can be called true, yet as people have reported for as long as people have reported, being around someone who has realized can have an energetic effect on your own inquiry

ultimately there is no paradox as any help you get is only from yourself, it's the divisive mind that says help from another person is from outside oneself

Quote:

my definition of self inquiry in the op is reflecting back on yourself and thinking about your intentions, subconscious motivations, influences of your surroundings on your behavior etc



Quote:

agree? thoughts?




i don't totally agree with your definition of self-inquiry apart from i think 'reflecting on yourself' is a decent way of putting it, it is not necessarily thinking about anything or sifting through mental modes as the self is beyond the mind, sifting through the mind can be the process but it is never the 'goal'



self-inquiry is a means of bringing about self-realization which is a non-dual state where you have realized/dissolved your identity into the truth of everything

as a practice it is questioning ones own nature - who am i? what am i? or just being silent, just being, which is natural and beyond easy for all, the difficult part is ceasing the habit of defining/identifying/limiting that sense of being to association with appearances, and one of if not the greatest self-deception is thinking there is something you have to do at all

it can be a headfuck of a 'practice' because the whole point of it is not trying to get somewhere but to remain as you always are, to stop trying to get anywhere, to stop trying to get anything, to stay true to yourself as it is, so to practice it i feel one must deeply understand this first, it's the theory behind the experiment if you will

it can also be a headfuck because in practicing it, in inquiring into the nature of self you can think you're trying to make the self known as we usually know things, when the non-duality of the self by it's very nature is the unknown, if it is truly infinite, unbound, limitless, whole, one, then it can never be known, you can never objectify yourself as the known you can only be yourself

'knowing' itself implies duality, one thing knowing another, so it can not lead to non-duality, it's a path of unknowing, of shedding all identity

so self-inquiry in a way is to consciously abide as the mystery, as the unknown, to stop pretensing yourself to be the known

its more of a sensing than a knowing, you sense yourself


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (01/18/14 07:31 AM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Chronic7]
    #19436232 - 01/18/14 02:59 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

No-self inquiry is self-inquiry, versa-vice.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19436241 - 01/18/14 03:06 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
useful yeep but like you said if I was left to self inquiry without any help from outside then id prob still be left creating my own delusional/destructive perspectives... not that those aren't still there but they are much friendlier to my self and others.... one glace from another person before could send me in a whirlwind of conclusions and perceptions that I was so sure were true... like I could read minds flawlessly or something. Glad to be out of that stage, thanks to self inquiry... many many thanks to self inquiry... but the thanks all goes to the collective... because left to my self id prob still be living in a shed or in some alley way somewhere... thinking and concluding so many destructive patterns of thought... spouting delusion but Teflon blood so... let it flow :smile:





same, to some extent

using the mind to quiet the mind seems futile like one said

but self-enquiry helped me it seemed, suddenly I remembered what I wasn't and felt bliss everyday since

but my consciousness is a product of what I give and what I receive from others
not sure I have had any delusions yet, but maybe one day I find out :wink:

the only delusions I remember were from smoking weed, stopped doing that
thoughts ran out of control

what psychedelics have done for me is to open the mind, no exceptions anymore
not sure if it's good or bad, but I like it


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OfflineSse
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19437681 - 01/18/14 12:30 PM (10 years, 12 days ago)

:thumbup:

let it flooooooooooooooooow


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineJaegar
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19490236 - 01/29/14 08:22 AM (10 years, 2 days ago)

The self is survival construct of the brain. Free yourself embrace what culture would deem wicked.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19502211 - 01/31/14 04:46 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Sri Ramana Maharshi's Vichara Atma was profound for me when I discovered it. It covered all the 'sheathes' that the classic Yoga delineated, and I saw more and more 'onion skins,' of identity, many of which were unconscious, or taken for granted as being simply 'me.' As you take your identity apart, you get a different formulation of the Eternal than that which Buddhism postulates. There is this Atman, this Eternal I AM, which Buddhism relegates to 'Eternalism,' and names as one of the two wrong views, the other one being 'Nihilism.' I don't believe that we each have a separate Eternal Self, but that Ultimate Reality Itself is that I AM. Our small self, the jivatman is like a magnifying glass that focuses the 'Sun' of the Atman such that we are deceived into claiming individual identities. We believe that our individuality, our differences is what gives us identity, but as St. Paul said, "we have this treasure [identity] in clay vessels." Self-inquiry has retained it's importance with regard to self-knowledge, and ultimately says exactly the same thing as Buddhism, namely that all phenomena, including selfhood, are Empty, insubstantial, impermanent. From an Occidental perspective, only God is Ultimately Real, and everything is an Idea in the Mind of God, including us. Whether an Idea in the Divine Mind is necessarily an Eternal Idea is the question. If so, we do have Eternal Life of a sort, using Christian terminology.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19502219 - 01/31/14 04:49 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Relativity made me mad.. psycadellics made see how mad I actually were..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19502335 - 01/31/14 05:17 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

cool post.. what about the aspects of self that are particular to a culture and language?.. they could surely never be eternal


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Icyus]
    #19502609 - 01/31/14 06:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icyus said:
Relativity made me mad.. psycadellics made see how mad I actually were..




Well psychedelics sure haven't helped with your spelling or grammar! :grin:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19502635 - 01/31/14 06:26 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
cool post.. what about the aspects of self that are particular to a culture and language?.. they could surely never be eternal




Nothing created can be eternal. Everything created has had innumerable 'efficient causes' since the Big Bang, but everything that issued from the Big Bang began in space-time. Eternity, like the Idea of God (according to Anselm), points to the Ineffable Mystery. Most people concern themselves exclusively with their favorite aspects of existence. Only philosophers of a certain mystical bent seem to be smitten with Eternity.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19503023 - 01/31/14 07:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

only humans can create imo and i see focus on it just as meaningful as eternity


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


Edited by quinn (01/31/14 07:50 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19504028 - 01/31/14 11:23 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
only humans can create imo and i see focus on it just as meaningful as eternity




I don't understand your statement, other creatures create their homes, from ant colonies to bird nests to beaver dams to the octopus's garden in the sea. Most people's "Atman Project" (Ken Wilber) is exactly as you say, the focus on family as a kind of surrogate immortality. Sometimes it's art or some endeavor that suggests that one will continue to exist in some individual, special way. Even if it takes 25,000 years or longer, the Great sandstone pyramid of Cheops will eventually return to sand. Eternity alone is Eternal. In Christianity they say 'God is king,' (which is to say, 'God rules!'), which as Islam says, "There is no God but God." But, in deference to your statement, the Buddhists insist 'Samsara IS Nirvana, Nirvana IS Samsara.' I prefer silence and apparently solitude (since I've always acted in such a way as to avoid drama - teenage, adult, familial - in my life). I live with an awareness of mortality in sharp juxtaposition with Eternity. It's a full-time job.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19504608 - 02/01/14 03:28 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Icyus said:
Relativity made me mad.. psycadellics made see how mad I actually were..




Well psychedelics sure haven't helped with your spelling or grammar! :grin:




My best an attemt, understanding I seek. I do not agree your rules, and thus I am a freak? Will you else riddle spoken I become? Nonsense for most, devine for some..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19504830 - 02/01/14 06:07 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

im not exactly sure what you are referring to but yeh, the atman project of art and family seems legit to me... and i think any attempts to achieve immortality thru them are useless, just it is useless to seek immortality thru study of the eternal or mysticism. to be a family for its own sake or create art for its sake is just as good as being a mystic imo, so i'd agree with the buddhists.

and altho animals create things i wouldnt say it is in the same way as humans do through culture, language, insight and intent. i think expressing yourself thru em is a very worthy endeavor.


--------------------
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Edited by quinn (02/01/14 06:32 AM)


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19504932 - 02/01/14 07:08 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
What do you mean by self inquiry?
A questioning nature should be cultivated, without blind spots for sure.




my definition of self inquiry in the op is reflecting back on yourself and thinking about your intentions, subconscious motivations, influences of your surroundings on your behavior etc

it gives me a headache too tbh



maybe this is an idea that someone else gave you when they wanted you to get a headache.
(here take this screw and grind it into your forehead and you will get smart)

that is of the nature of self flagellation and hairshirts.

still it is valuable to be aware of mental contents, and their origins, and to be aware of mental state, and what is suitable in each mental state.

that said, the issue of the origins of mental contents can get bogged down very quickly, so this part of it requires a method that you can handle.

maybe the topic should be "methods of understanding the origins of mental contents"
the rest is basic awareness.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19505023 - 02/01/14 07:45 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Who is it that thinks is a good way too I think

then I will know that some thoughts I should not associate with
and others are just right for the purpose

some thoughts are ment to benefit only myself
some thoughts are ment to benefit both myself and others
some thoughts are meaningless / a destruction to myself
some thoughts are purely a cry from my nervous system/painbody
some thoughts are just desires for instant relief
some thoughts are negative towards others

if the thoughts make me happy, then it is usually myself that thinks them, so I must be doing something right since I am myself now, continue that

when you select this way you will suddenly only get happy thoughts/beneficial thoughts
it will happen automatically without even thinking about it, when you identify the origin of the thought

observe thoughts, step back a little before answering

one can learn a lot about oneself that way

and I might as well cite Maharishi (cant spell it):
true self is happiness, when you know that, it is easy to know when you are yourself
both by your thoughts and actions

continue doing that what brings happiness, stop doing what brings unhappiness


the other one, which most people know is
Who am I?

but Markos just said the "who is it that thinks", in a bit different way above :-)

*** anyone interested in the topic, "who is it that thinks" should read eckhart tolle, the power of now if they haven't already, cheap book
but it explains that very well I think
not my thoughts, not my painbody .. just step back, chose what benefits


Edited by lessismore (02/01/14 08:01 AM)


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19505057 - 02/01/14 07:56 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

the koan "who am I"
helps to put a person into an examination of mental contents, which is a good step.

the attributes of good or bad, or internally (promted) or externally (prompted), are reasonable, but secondary to seeing the shifting contents:
by that, I mean, the considerations of these attributes are additional mental contents.


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19505087 - 02/01/14 08:07 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

yeah I see what you mean

it will add additional thoughts initially, but you might find out the origin of the thoughts

I often like to observe my thoughts in nature, but it has become instinct much of the time by now
mainly because I don't feel attached to my thoughts anymore, they are not me
I just chose which ones obviously benefit
without assigning god or bad :-)

eckhart tolle has a good viewpoint on this I think

it basically becomes 'knowing your thoughts' after a while I think
you feel at home in your thoughts, certain thoughts become pointless
i.e. trying to be better than others, when others are you

you see your thoughts, if that makes sense, but it is all automatic
there is no time to think, when you have identified the origin of thoughts just once


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19505430 - 02/01/14 09:46 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

what I am talking about exposes things as they are (mental contents) to bare awareness,
what we do habitually (including the Eckhart Tolle recommendation above) edits and embellishes the current artifacts into additional scenarios.

however pleasant the addition or edit may be, it is additional mental content, and should be noted that way, honestly.

what I mean to say is that it is not a short cut to "who am I?" it is a detour from it.


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19505584 - 02/01/14 10:32 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

who am I usually is the silencing of thoughts for me

who is it that thinks, is a cascade of thoughts yes, pretty unpleasant at first :-)

I don't have the answer, but I feel the answer everyday
eckhart tolles viewpoint is my viewpoint, but I must admit I read it very quickly... was really weird reading that book, it changed me


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19505613 - 02/01/14 10:39 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
only humans can create imo and i see focus on it just as meaningful as eternity





WTF?:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Icelander]
    #19506203 - 02/01/14 01:19 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

i was thinking art and stuff


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19506321 - 02/01/14 01:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

i think markos got my meaning well even if it was a bad point


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Edited by quinn (02/01/14 02:04 PM)


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19506626 - 02/01/14 03:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
im not exactly sure what you are referring to but yeh, the atman project of art and family seems legit to me... and i think any attempts to achieve immortality thru them are useless, just it is useless to seek immortality thru study of the eternal or mysticism. to be a family for its own sake or create art for its sake is just as good as being a mystic imo, so i'd agree with the buddhists.

and altho animals create things i wouldnt say it is in the same way as humans do through culture, language, insight and intent. i think expressing yourself thru em is a very worthy endeavor.




No disagreement here.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19506635 - 02/01/14 03:21 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
who am I usually is the silencing of thoughts for me

who is it that thinks, is a cascade of thoughts yes, pretty unpleasant at first :-)

I don't have the answer, but I feel the answer everyday
eckhart tolles viewpoint is my viewpoint, but I must admit I read it very quickly... was really weird reading that book, it changed me




Yes. Even with all the studying, reading, meditating, yoga, and other practices since 1972, it changed me also. Amazing 'transmission!' :awesomenod:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (02/01/14 09:12 PM)


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19506674 - 02/01/14 03:29 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
i was thinking art and stuff




Elephants.


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19506942 - 02/01/14 04:17 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
i was thinking art and stuff





Oh stuff?  :lol:  Yeah not a lot of other animals write and perform music although my dogs do like to sing along if the pitch is just right.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Icelander]
    #19507009 - 02/01/14 04:35 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

my dog only likes female jazz vocalists for some reason.. he's such a ponce


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19507440 - 02/01/14 06:15 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

i wouldn't want to defend humans really being different to animals but i think you can say that humans can only create in the same way that you can say only humans can consent or make choices or be accountable for stuff


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: quinn]
    #19509283 - 02/02/14 03:47 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

to other humans only humans can...


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19509716 - 02/02/14 07:00 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

mio said:
who am I usually is the silencing of thoughts for me

who is it that thinks, is a cascade of thoughts yes, pretty unpleasant at first :-)

I don't have the answer, but I feel the answer everyday
eckhart tolles viewpoint is my viewpoint, but I must admit I read it very quickly... was really weird reading that book, it changed me




Yes. Even with all the studying, reading, meditating, yoga, and other practices since 1972, it changed me also. Amazing 'transmission!' :awesomenod:



the person who gave it to me turned from a speaker for capitalism into a meditating TM munk, vegan etc. over night :wink:

worked for him too :-P

although that was just how I viewed him before, money was everything, nothing else was important, not even family or friends(never talked to rest of family), he had no friends he said, the system was his enemy/after him always, he just wanted to be alone so he could work. Always firing his employees(me incl) etc., they ment nothing to him, they never did their work good enough. He wanted to be rich so he could be successful and change the world. Always buying the newest most expensive stuff etc., but now he is vegan and barefoot.

I thought it was funny, even though he is my bro
weird transformation, he had always been like this for 10+ years

He looks happier now :-)

LSD/the power of now changed me about equally much, just in different ways, noticed my consumption was much too big and changed it i.e., started going out in nature/meditating and finding my younger self
the LSD changed me and how I interact with others, the power of now did the same, in about the same way

seems they are both a bit about self inquiry, even though we don't think of them as such right away maybe


Edited by lessismore (02/02/14 07:05 AM)


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19525187 - 02/05/14 12:18 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

"There is a powerful craving in most of us to see ourselves as instruments in the hands of others and, thus, free ourselves from responsibility for acts which are prompted by our own questionable inclinations and impulses. Both the strong and the weak grasp at this alibi. The latter hide their malevolence under the virtue of obedience. The strong, too, claim absolution by proclaiming themselves the chosen instruments of a higher power- God, history, fate, nation or humanity."

"Similarly, we have more faith in what we imitate than in what we originate. We cannot derive a sense of absolute certitude from anything which has its roots in us. The most poignant sense of insecurity comes from standing alone and we are not alone when we imitate. It is thus with most of us; we are what other people say we are. We know our selves chiefly by hearsay."

"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are. Whether this being different results in dissimulation or a real change of heart, it cannot be realized without self-awareness. Yet, it is remarkable that the very people who are most self-dissatisfied, who crave most for a new identity, have the least self-awareness. They have turned away from an unwanted self and, hence, never had a good look at it. The result is that most dissatisfied people can neither dissimulate nor attain a real change of heart. They are transparent and their unwanted qualities persist through all attempts at self-dramatization and self-transformation. It is the lack of self-awareness which renders us transparent. The soul that knows itself is opaque."

"Fear comes from uncertainty. When we are absolutely certain, whether of our worth or our worthlessness, we are almost impervious to fear. Thus, a feeling of utter unworthiness can be a source of courage. Everything seems possible when we are absolutely helpless or absolutely powerful-and both states stimulate our gullibility."

"Pride is a sense of worth derived from something that is not organically part of us, while self-esteem is derived from the potentialities and achievements of self. We are proud when we identify ourselves with an imaginary self, a leader, a holy cause, a collective body of possessions. There is fear and intolerance in pride; it is sensitive and uncompromising. The less promise and potentiality in the self, the more imperative is the need for pride. The core of pride is self-rejection. It is true, however, that when pride releases energies and serves as a spur to achievement, it can lead to a reconciliation with the self and the attainment of genuine self-esteem."

"Secretiveness can be a source of pride. It is a paradox that secretiveness plays the same role as boasting-both are engaged in the creation of a disguise. Boasting tries to create an imaginary self, while secretiveness gives us the exhilarating feeling of being princes disguised in meekness. Of the two, secretiveness is the more difficult and effective. For the self-observant, boasting breeds self-contempt. Yet, it is as Spinoza said: "Men govern nothing with more difficulty than their tongues, and they can moderate their desires more than their words." Humility, however, Is not verbal renunciation of pride but the substitution of pride for self-awareness and objectivity. Forced humility is false pride."

"A fateful process is set in motion when the individual is released "to the freedom of his own impotence" and left to justify his existence by his own efforts. The individual on his own, striving to realize himself and prove his worth, has created all that is great in literature, art, music, science and technology. This autonomous individual, also, when he can neither realize himself nor justify his existence by his own efforts, is a breeding ground of frustration and the seed of the convulsion that shakes our world to its foundations."

"the autonomous individual is stable only so long as he is possessed of self-esteem. The maintenance of self-esteem is a continuous task which taxes all of the individual's power and inner resources. We have to prove our worth and justify our existence anew each day. When, for whatever reason, self-esteem is unattainable, the autonomous individual becomes a highly explosive entity. He turns away from an unpromising self and plunges into the pursuit of pride, the explosive substitute for self-esteem. All social disturbances and upheavals have their roots in crises of individual self-esteem, and the great endeavor in which the masses most readily unite is basically a search for pride."

"So, we acquire a sense of worth either by realizing our talents, or by keeping busy or by identifying ourselves with something apart from us-be it a cause, a leader, a group, possessions or whatnot. The path of self-realization is the most difficult. It is taken only when other avenues to a sense of worth are more or less blocked. Men of talent have to be encouraged and goaded to engage in creative work. Their groans and laments echo through the ages."

"Action is a high road to self-confidence and esteem. Where it is open, all energies flow toward it. It comes readily to most people and its rewards are tangible. The cultivation of the spirit is elusive and difficult and the tendency toward it is rarely spontaneous, whereas, the opportunities for action are many."

"The propensity to action is symptomatic of an inner unbalance. To be balanced is to be more or less at rest. Action is at the bottom-a swinging flailing of the arms to regain one's balance and keep afloat. And if it is true, as Napolean wrote to Carnot, "The art of government is not to let men grow stale," then, it is an art of unbalancing. The crucial difference between a totalitarian regime and a free social order is, perhaps, in the methods of unbalancing by which their people are kept active and striving."

"We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. Yet, it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities, but its own talents as well."

"The times of drastic change are times of passions. We can never be fit and ready for that which is wholly new. We have to adjust ourselves and every radical adjustment is a crisis in self-esteem: we undergo a test; we have to prove ourselves. A population subjected to drastic change is, thus, a population of misfits, and misfits live and breath in an atmosphere of passion."

"That we pursue something passionately does not always mean that we really want it or have a special aptitude for it. Often, the thing we pursue most passionately is but a substitute for the one thing we really want and cannot have. It is usually safe to predict that the fulfillment of an excessively cherished desire is not likely to still our nagging anxiety. In every passionate pursuit, the pursuit counts more than the object pursued."

"Our sense of power is more vivid when we break a man's spirit than when we win his heart, for we can win a man's heart one day and lose it the next. But when we break a proud spirit, we achieve something that is final and absolute."

"It is compassion rather than the principle of justice which can guard us against being unjust to our fellow men."

"It is doubtful whether there is such a thing as impulsive or natural tolerance. Tolerance requires an effort of thought and self-control. Acts of kindness, too, are rarely without deliberation and "thoughtfulness." Thus, it seems that some artificiality, some posing and pretense, is inseparable from any act or attitude which involves a limitation of our appetites and selfishness. We ought to beware of people who do not think it necessary to pretend they are good and decent. Lack of hypocrisy in such things hints at a capacity for a more depraved ruthlessness. Pretense is often an indispensable step in the attainment of genuineness. It is a form into which genuine inclinations flow and solidify."

"The control of our being is not unlike the combination of a safe. One turn of the knob rarely unlocks the safe; each advance and retreat is a step toward one's final achievement."

Tao of Jeet Kune Do -Bruce Lee


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (02/05/14 12:34 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19526915 - 02/05/14 06:15 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

yup, it made me change myself :-P

you only change what you want to change, of course
but that is what I ment, even though it might have been unclear

when you realize you are not your thoughts, you can chose to go back to living as thoughts
or try to get an overview of them

tolles words were my words, so that is why it was weird reading that book
never finished it... wasn't ready for that much change it seemed

it makes not much sense to read your own words
although it might make you remember to do the action you need to do

not my thoughts, not my painbody, what we give is what we get(learn from mistakes/self-improvement, giving is receiving)

action is the important thing, even though hard at times


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19527683 - 02/05/14 08:46 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

should something related to inquiry
have a hidden meaning
in such a way that to ask leads to action?

I have no idea what either of you are suggesting.


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19530149 - 02/06/14 11:41 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

who me? I thought that bit written by bruce lee had some real interesting stuff to ruminate over. I don't understand all of it but some insights into some aspects of the human condition that I am particularly familiar with but damned if I could ever articulate it as he did... not sure if I even understand it completely but where my projections filled in it resonates... so thought id throw it in the self-inquiry post... self-investigation.

"look straight ahead, what's there?
see it as it is
and you will never err."

"Coming all is clear, no doubt about it
Going all is clear, without a doubt
what then is it all?"


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (02/06/14 02:16 PM)


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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19531507 - 02/06/14 04:21 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I see;
take the warrior stance.
ok.
it is a valid approach.
and you might get a good work out too.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19531618 - 02/06/14 04:43 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
"There is a powerful craving in most of us to see ourselves as instruments in the hands of others and, thus, free ourselves from responsibility for acts which are prompted by our own questionable inclinations and impulses. Both the strong and the weak grasp at this alibi. The latter hide their malevolence under the virtue of obedience. The strong, too, claim absolution by proclaiming themselves the chosen instruments of a higher power- God, history, fate, nation or humanity."

"Similarly, we have more faith in what we imitate than in what we originate. We cannot derive a sense of absolute certitude from anything which has its roots in us. The most poignant sense of insecurity comes from standing alone and we are not alone when we imitate. It is thus with most of us; we are what other people say we are. We know our selves chiefly by hearsay."

"To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are. Whether this being different results in dissimulation or a real change of heart, it cannot be realized without self-awareness. Yet, it is remarkable that the very people who are most self-dissatisfied, who crave most for a new identity, have the least self-awareness. They have turned away from an unwanted self and, hence, never had a good look at it. The result is that most dissatisfied people can neither dissimulate nor attain a real change of heart. They are transparent and their unwanted qualities persist through all attempts at self-dramatization and self-transformation. It is the lack of self-awareness which renders us transparent. The soul that knows itself is opaque."

"Fear comes from uncertainty. When we are absolutely certain, whether of our worth or our worthlessness, we are almost impervious to fear. Thus, a feeling of utter unworthiness can be a source of courage. Everything seems possible when we are absolutely helpless or absolutely powerful-and both states stimulate our gullibility."

"Pride is a sense of worth derived from something that is not organically part of us, while self-esteem is derived from the potentialities and achievements of self. We are proud when we identify ourselves with an imaginary self, a leader, a holy cause, a collective body of possessions. There is fear and intolerance in pride; it is sensitive and uncompromising. The less promise and potentiality in the self, the more imperative is the need for pride. The core of pride is self-rejection. It is true, however, that when pride releases energies and serves as a spur to achievement, it can lead to a reconciliation with the self and the attainment of genuine self-esteem."

"Secretiveness can be a source of pride. It is a paradox that secretiveness plays the same role as boasting-both are engaged in the creation of a disguise. Boasting tries to create an imaginary self, while secretiveness gives us the exhilarating feeling of being princes disguised in meekness. Of the two, secretiveness is the more difficult and effective. For the self-observant, boasting breeds self-contempt. Yet, it is as Spinoza said: "Men govern nothing with more difficulty than their tongues, and they can moderate their desires more than their words." Humility, however, Is not verbal renunciation of pride but the substitution of pride for self-awareness and objectivity. Forced humility is false pride."

"A fateful process is set in motion when the individual is released "to the freedom of his own impotence" and left to justify his existence by his own efforts. The individual on his own, striving to realize himself and prove his worth, has created all that is great in literature, art, music, science and technology. This autonomous individual, also, when he can neither realize himself nor justify his existence by his own efforts, is a breeding ground of frustration and the seed of the convulsion that shakes our world to its foundations."

"the autonomous individual is stable only so long as he is possessed of self-esteem. The maintenance of self-esteem is a continuous task which taxes all of the individual's power and inner resources. We have to prove our worth and justify our existence anew each day. When, for whatever reason, self-esteem is unattainable, the autonomous individual becomes a highly explosive entity. He turns away from an unpromising self and plunges into the pursuit of pride, the explosive substitute for self-esteem. All social disturbances and upheavals have their roots in crises of individual self-esteem, and the great endeavor in which the masses most readily unite is basically a search for pride."

"So, we acquire a sense of worth either by realizing our talents, or by keeping busy or by identifying ourselves with something apart from us-be it a cause, a leader, a group, possessions or whatnot. The path of self-realization is the most difficult. It is taken only when other avenues to a sense of worth are more or less blocked. Men of talent have to be encouraged and goaded to engage in creative work. Their groans and laments echo through the ages."

"Action is a high road to self-confidence and esteem. Where it is open, all energies flow toward it. It comes readily to most people and its rewards are tangible. The cultivation of the spirit is elusive and difficult and the tendency toward it is rarely spontaneous, whereas, the opportunities for action are many."

"The propensity to action is symptomatic of an inner unbalance. To be balanced is to be more or less at rest. Action is at the bottom-a swinging flailing of the arms to regain one's balance and keep afloat. And if it is true, as Napolean wrote to Carnot, "The art of government is not to let men grow stale," then, it is an art of unbalancing. The crucial difference between a totalitarian regime and a free social order is, perhaps, in the methods of unbalancing by which their people are kept active and striving."

"We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. Yet, it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities, but its own talents as well."

"The times of drastic change are times of passions. We can never be fit and ready for that which is wholly new. We have to adjust ourselves and every radical adjustment is a crisis in self-esteem: we undergo a test; we have to prove ourselves. A population subjected to drastic change is, thus, a population of misfits, and misfits live and breath in an atmosphere of passion."

"That we pursue something passionately does not always mean that we really want it or have a special aptitude for it. Often, the thing we pursue most passionately is but a substitute for the one thing we really want and cannot have. It is usually safe to predict that the fulfillment of an excessively cherished desire is not likely to still our nagging anxiety. In every passionate pursuit, the pursuit counts more than the object pursued."

"Our sense of power is more vivid when we break a man's spirit than when we win his heart, for we can win a man's heart one day and lose it the next. But when we break a proud spirit, we achieve something that is final and absolute."

"It is compassion rather than the principle of justice which can guard us against being unjust to our fellow men."

"It is doubtful whether there is such a thing as impulsive or natural tolerance. Tolerance requires an effort of thought and self-control. Acts of kindness, too, are rarely without deliberation and "thoughtfulness." Thus, it seems that some artificiality, some posing and pretense, is inseparable from any act or attitude which involves a limitation of our appetites and selfishness. We ought to beware of people who do not think it necessary to pretend they are good and decent. Lack of hypocrisy in such things hints at a capacity for a more depraved ruthlessness. Pretense is often an indispensable step in the attainment of genuineness. It is a form into which genuine inclinations flow and solidify."

"The control of our being is not unlike the combination of a safe. One turn of the knob rarely unlocks the safe; each advance and retreat is a step toward one's final achievement."

Tao of Jeet Kune Do -Bruce Lee




Being awake usually entails being aware that you are 100% in control of your own life. Taking responsibility for your own state of being and own life, no one else is responsible.

Action/compassion cannot be wanted, it will happen when needed/ready

Self-transformation cannot be wanted either it seems, at least in my case

It seems to be subconscious to some level... meditate, let the meditation define my lifestyle
who I become and what happens I will accept it, for this is how I am

Let the self evolve, see things as they are

You can still discuss what is important to you though: compassion, action, freedom of thought, mindfulness, moderation

I agree though, you will probably have some idea of "who am I"
the one who doesn't think about everything, the one who doesn't take everything so seriously
sounds like me :-)
but I don't need to define, just be


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19531862 - 02/06/14 05:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I thought I could drink the water from the mountain stream
though I was shitting my brains out for a week



:hehehe:


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19531903 - 02/06/14 05:44 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

You cant talk/think about action that is what I ment :wink:

Words are cheap
Will check the vid later..


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19531940 - 02/06/14 05:51 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

that quote came from the song. I related it to, focusing in on that spot of nonconception; being drinking the water from the mountain spring. Then the shitting my brains out commences, literally, my brain diarrhea's thought.

all sorts of little relativities

as life unfolds aren't we all moving as we are inclined


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (02/06/14 05:56 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19531973 - 02/06/14 05:58 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Yup... no notions

you are where you are for a reason, and tomorrow you are too

it is easy to become attached to I am this, I must do that, life is about this and this

let go (easier said than done) :wink: but meditation everyday helps


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
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Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19531992 - 02/06/14 06:01 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

mucho agreeance me friend, the flow we go :sun:

"my ass is rainier than the month of may"

but

"trouble never sit up like rain"



IT NEVER SIT UP LIKE RAIN

LIFE IS FULL OF JOY AND PAIN

NO BODY KNOWS WHAT THE NEXT DAY BRING


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (02/06/14 06:02 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19532066 - 02/06/14 06:17 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

:-) deep and true, gotta fetch that one

trouble is no trouble, you flow right through it
joy is most of the time


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19532159 - 02/06/14 06:33 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19532171 - 02/06/14 06:37 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

"I write, erase, rewrite,
erase again, and then
a poppy blooms."
-
-
"Gone up in flames-
but look, the flowers droop
unknowing."

-Hokushi 1718


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Sse]
    #19532200 - 02/06/14 06:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sse said:




yup, there is a tendency to only want joy and no pain :-)

I see pain as an opportunity to grow stronger, to learn etc.
no joy without pain

have had lots of pain, and also lots of joy
sometimes pain so long I can't remember what things working were like
but suddenly things start working again and you appreciate it even more

there is only now, but often I plan tomorrow too

balance :-P


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19532340 - 02/06/14 07:26 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

there is joy without pain.
some perspectives may not appreciate joy after joy and no salt of pain, "may not"
otherwise the aphorism is 'philosophical' a mind stopper.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleHobozen
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Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: Flag
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19532941 - 02/06/14 09:34 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Being awake usually entails being aware that you are 100% in control of your own life.




do you really think you can be 100% in control?  how would you know if you were at 100%?


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: Hobozen]
    #19533025 - 02/06/14 09:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Acceptance

if you dont accept you are never in control
acceptance is not about seeking control but making the best out of what you got
appreciate what you have at any time, work with what you have

control means choice here, you can chose what you do with what you have

worry about what I dont have
or appreciate what I have?

you can be 100% in control of own thoughts and actions, if you meditate enough
but not the kind of control where you think about every action, you just know it is right when it brings happiness to yourself and people around you

your point is valid though.. we are rarely free from own thought and rarely in control

control  -> choice

being in control is nice, and we rarely are in control always


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InvisibleHobozen
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: Flag
Re: self inquiry.. [Re: lessismore]
    #19533043 - 02/06/14 09:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

i hear there are the rare oddities that have practiced hard enough to be able to dream awake while asleep 100% of the time... no unconscious sleep (if willed).  that would be my idea of being in control !


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