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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Is kava kava extract safe?
    #19405331 - 01/11/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

How many people hear have used kava in
Some form ? Has anyone had a bad health reaction ?

Is kava safe? Have the rumors about liver damage finally been Debunked?

Any long term regular users here ?


What doses do you take ?

What kind of results do you get?

Anyone had liver problems or know someone peraonally who has?

I have heard 300 mg kavalactones is a good dose .

Is this dose safe ?

Any and all info , experiences and insights about kava and it's safety are appreciated !

I know some studies said it was bad for the liver but my understanding is that only applies if parts other than the root are used and the root itself is perfectly safe .

If kava was really Hurting people's livers , wouldn't we be hearing about it in the news all the time ?

I live in Canada and all my local health stores carry kava. If it was causing liver damage , surely I would hear about it?

I have used kava a dozen times or more so far , various products and sources .


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Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405334 - 01/11/14 07:10 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I thought you were the one who knew everything about this kind of stuff


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: morrowasted]
    #19405382 - 01/11/14 07:18 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Kava is the one thing that drives me crazy because Internet research just won't give me conclusive answers .
The Internet has lots of sources arming that it can cause liver failure an death even at normal doses short term, but whole culture of pacific island people have used  it heavily for generations without any liver problems .

Warnings are severe but millions of doses are taken yearly and there are no reports of deaths in the news , but web searches still warn that it is highly liver toxic.

So I really can't make a firm conclusion and any above would be welcome !


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405393 - 01/11/14 07:20 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Alcohol is worse on the liver.


--------------------
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]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Legend]
    #19405410 - 01/11/14 07:25 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

"If you start researching kava, warnings about liver damage are the first you’ll discover. This is a subject with much contention. While some suggest it is toxic to the liver, most research indicates there is little evidence to support this notion. [15] [16] [17] Both Ohio State University and the South Dakota State University College of Pharmacy conducted animal studies and found that not only was kava non-toxic to the liver, but may even protect the liver. [18] [19] One of the primary arguments is that liver damage from kava is unpredictable, dose-independent, and not reproducible; thus individual metabolic differences are more likely. [20]"

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/10-facts-to-know-about-kava/#16


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InvisibleBlackWidow
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405425 - 01/11/14 07:29 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

The leaves are toxic to the liver. People were probably taking supplements derived from the whole plant. If you just ingest the roots you won't run into any danger. Just buy whole roots and none of theBS tablet supplements.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405502 - 01/11/14 07:47 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I recently bought some (https://hyperionherbs.com/shop/kava-extract-4-oz/) and tried it three times and it did next to nothing. It also tasted horrible.


We have studied in animals and man various extracts, extracted chemicals and congeners of piper methysticum (Kava Kava). The main pharmacological action is like that of central relaxants of the mephenesin-type as shown by a specific antagonism to strychnine infusion. Compared to modern synthetic central relaxants all of the Kava congeners are relatively inactive. The most active congener appears to be dihydromethysticin, but this compound when given to man in the dosage range of 800 to 1200 mgm daily produces side effects and allergic skin reactions. The crude root and extract produces a yellowing of the skin similar to that reported in the Kava drinkers of Samoa. From the data now available, further study of Kava as a modern medicinal agent would not appear to be needed.

Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs (eds. D. H. Efron, R. Holmstedt, and N. S. Klein) (1967), page 160


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Offlinesololas
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: s240779]
    #19405554 - 01/11/14 07:58 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Only tried it while in Tonga at a kava ceremony with some locals. And once at home with some kava alcohol type extract. Both times my mouth became numbish but time during the ceremony it seemed alot stronger which lead to a calming like affect with the wousing almost comparable to alcohol but this wasn't so with the kava extract. With extract it was just slightly calming. Sleep well the nite of use both times.


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Offlinesololas
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: s240779]
    #19405569 - 01/11/14 08:03 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

:watchingyou:There we go this great info, so the relaxing part holds for reason, now I know.


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #19405583 - 01/11/14 08:05 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

dude, kava grows on irradiated pacific islands. I stopped using it after 2011.


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Offlinesololas
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #19405617 - 01/11/14 08:12 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I know I ate the local fruits and veggies in 2000 but only for 3weeks I wouldnt be surprise if some area has radiation but all S.Pacific being contaminated would have more been from Japan's lasest meltdown.


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Offlinezee007
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: sololas]
    #19405641 - 01/11/14 08:17 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Make sure the extract is only made with Kava Kava root.

On the other hand, most kava kava extracts are very weak, or the alkaloids that give ya the good feels have been removed through the process. I say stick to powder :thumbup:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #19405649 - 01/11/14 08:19 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Damn I never considered the Fukushima angle. I took 300 mg kavalactones today. So far feeling good. I currently have one bottle of extract capsules and one bottle of tincture. I guess I will finish both but not restock after . I will also buy another bottle of milk thistle to counteract any liver damage that may or may not result , and continue taking my regimen of radiation protection supplements.

I'm going to continue using kava and valerian to substitute for etizolam as I finish tapering off , as kava and valerian have the most benzo like effects of the natural supplements.

Overall though valerian seems like a much safer option than kava.


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Offlinezee007
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405656 - 01/11/14 08:22 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Damn I never considered the Fukushima angle. I took 300 mg kavalactones today. So far feeling good. I currently have one bottle of extract capsules and one bottle of tincture. I guess I will finish both but not restock after . I will also buy another bottle of milk thistle to counteract any liver damage that may or may not result , and continue taking my regimen of radiation protection supplements.

I'm going to continue using kava and valerian to substitute for etizolam as I finish tapering off , as kava and valerian have the most benzo like effects of the natural supplements.

Overall though valerian seems like a much safer option than kava.




Just make sure you're only getting the root and you should be okay. Do your research on whichever vendor you choose, because there are many that don't take the time out to remove harmful plant matter.

Milk Thistle won't be enough to reverse damage or keep your liver unharmed in the long run.


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405670 - 01/11/14 08:25 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

definitely use valerian for months after quitting the etizolam. that shit is fucked! it nearly killed me and ruined my life. seizures are very likely. I wouldn't even take a script of Xanax from my doctor when he tried to prescribe it for me a week ago because of my experiences on etizolam... and I used to love benzos.


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Offlinepcplease
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #19405685 - 01/11/14 08:30 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Really glad to hear you made it off etiz passiflora! :highfive:


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Offlines240779
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: s240779]
    #19405691 - 01/11/14 08:31 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I think the relaxed states that these herbs supposedly produce would best be accomplished by microdosing psychedelics. I'm very impressed with what I read about microdosing psychedelics.


subtle increase in visual acuity, focus ability, outlook, sexual energy, social outgoingness, creativity, meditation ability, openness to love in my heart, feeling lighter on my feet, feeling energy flow through me, and a sense of tapping into a larger wisdom of the world,

Microdosing Ayahuasca Analogue (ACRB + SR)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #19405698 - 01/11/14 08:33 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

How much etiz were you using and for how long?
Mi have only been using for a few weeks and not huge doses, I have been tapering off even though I don't think I am dependent at all, I just want to be really safe.

When you say it nearly killed you do you mean from withdrawal?

How much were you using, for how long, and did you cold turkey or taper?


Good idea refusing the Xanax , Xanax is much more dangerous than etiz.

How long did your withdrawal last and how are you doing now ?

Did you have a seizure ?

And I asked my vendor and he assured me the product is made from the root only, for what that is worth.

Im down to only 2 mg etiz a day right now, dropping to 1.5 mg etiz tomorrow. Then 1 mg divided into two .5 mg doses, then finally .5 mg divided into two .25 mg doses, then just kava an valerian root and other calmin supplement after that.

Then I will need to take probably at least a month with zero etiz before using it again, as then I need to use it only 1-2 times a week and max 3 mg a day.


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Offlinepcplease
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405706 - 01/11/14 08:36 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Good idea refusing the Xanax , Xanax is much more dangerous than etiz..




It's really not, the two are very similar. Statements like that are dangerously misleading, an etizolam addiction is no joke.


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405732 - 01/11/14 08:42 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
How much etiz were you using and for how long?
Mi have only been using for a few weeks and not huge doses, I have been tapering off even though I don't think I am dependent at all, I just want to be really safe.

When you say it nearly killed you do you mean from withdrawal?

How much were you using, for how long, and did you cold turkey or taper?


Good idea refusing the Xanax , Xanax is much more dangerous than etiz.

How long did your withdrawal last and how are you doing now ?

Did you have a seizure ?

And I asked my vendor and he assured me the product is made from the root only, for what that is worth.

Im down to only 2 mg etiz a day right now, dropping to 1.5 mg etiz tomorrow. Then 1 mg divided into two .5 mg doses, then finally .5 mg divided into two .25 mg doses, then just kava an valerian root and other calmin supplement after that.

Then I will need to take probably at least a month with zero etiz before using it again, as then I need to use it only 1-2 times a week and max 3 mg a day.



it started in july of this last year when my daily consumption of etiz dropped by about 20mg due to laziness reordering the stuff. this and massive alcohol consumption ended in 4 grand mal seizure in one day. I fractured two vertebrae in the process somehow. I got off of the etiz with my doctor's help. I got back on the stuff a few months later because I had found a source for some potent and quality pills. I went downhill fast and got into trouble in a bar one night, ran from the cops, and eventually ended up facing the charges. i'm awaiting trial after I get back from Arizona. when I got off of it the last time, I started having small seizures every minute of the day. I heard real voices in every form of white noise and saw/talked to hallucinations of people upon waking. I was still taking valerian, and it eventually all stopped and I feel completely normal again.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: pcplease]
    #19405740 - 01/11/14 08:43 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I never said etizolam addiction was a joke! I just said Xanax is much more dangerous than etiz , and I so believe that to be true , but I'm not an expert so I could be wrong , but all my research as everything I have heard from users here (including you yourself) has led me to believe Xanax addiction sets In faster and is more severe than etiz addiction, and Wikipedia also confirms this.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405753 - 01/11/14 08:45 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Xanax produces painful muscle relaxation in me. I become extremely weak and it's as if my blood flow starts to be inhibited. I've noticed this consistently in a context of sporadic use and only low doses too. Only benzo that does it to me.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #19405755 - 01/11/14 08:46 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Sorry can you answer these two questions clearly, because I couldn't find the answer in your last post :

1. Aprox how many mg a day were you using?
2. For approximately how many months are you using daily?

Thank you for sharing ! Sorry for your suffering. I am so glad you recovered !


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405775 - 01/11/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

both times I was at around 60-80mg daily. the first time I had been using for about 8 months, and the second time about a month. I did a taper on Librium the first time and no taper the second time, as I ate all of my remaining stash when I got home from running from the cops. I ended up overdosing and got really belligerent, don't remember anything other than what people have told me. everything I did was out of character. I even heard a recording made of me on the phone and I sounded possessed.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #19405814 - 01/11/14 09:01 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Wow 60-80 mg a day for 8 months! It's amazing you have made a full recovery ! I am so happy to hear that.

Thank you for sharing your story. It can be a warning to me and others to be very careful with etizolam and never let doses get out of hand or fall in to daily dosing.

I have heard one other shroomery member share a similar habit .

The largest dose I have ever taken is 8 mg in one 24 hour period and the longest I have used
Daily is about 2 weeks or so.

After I finish this taper I will never use daily again, and I wo never exceed the recommended maximum dosage of 3 mg a day.

I must say I feel pretty relaxed and euphoric from this 300 mg kavalactones .

I think it's worth the liver risk to use up what I have at least as a substitute for etizolam.

I have Ativan as well but I don't use that at all because I believe etiz to be safer.

I have recently heard one member here took 1000 mg in one dose an survived !

From that point of view it is a very safe drug in terms of being very hard to overdose on unless combined with alcohol or another CNS depressant.

I'm hoping because I don't drink or use acetemenophen the kava won't get my liver too much. Going to buy a bottle of milk thistle and a bottle of valerian capsules on the way home. From now on I am going o use valerian instead of etizolam for all my anxiolytic and hypnotic needs.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (01/11/14 09:05 PM)


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Offlinepcplease
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405825 - 01/11/14 09:04 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

You're right, you didn't say it was a joke :tongue2: I'm sorry; I just get bummed about everyone under the impression that etizolam is totally safe to use daily or abuse. And I'm definitely not talking about you when I say that, you are very cautious when using pretty much everything.

Yes xanax is a stronger agonist, but I never meant to imply xanax is more dangerous than etiz. Unless you're talking about me saying physically safe to discontinue at equivalent doses/habits, in which case yes, etiz should be. Or if I said more neurotoxic. Xanax abuse will cause longer, more severe rebound. More severe rebound = more neurotoxic. Also means like you/I said, that addiction will set in quicker.

The are both equally dangerous IMO, although one might be more dangerous depending on the person. For some, etizolam is much more recreational than xanax, and for others the opposite.

@Passiflora
:eek: Again, glad you made it off :thumbup:


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19405833 - 01/11/14 09:06 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I've gone overboard with lorazepam too. kava is great if you can find a comfortable dose. you should take it on an empty stomach to gauge the effects. food can make it have no effect at all. once you get to a level where the drug is being used too fast for your liking, eat some food. have it already prepared in anticipation of this effect.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: pcplease]
    #19405865 - 01/11/14 09:14 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I totally understand and that is good info :hug:

I try to treat etiz with great caution and recognize it as a dangerous , addictive hard drug , but one that has enough therapeutic and recreational benefit to d worth using responsibly and carefully .

Basically that means to me not exceeding 3mg a day dosage , not exceeding 3 days a week frequency, not combining with alcohol and always using a taper to come off it If you have been using daily for more than a week.


I think if one can follow those rules etiz is a safe and useful medicine for treating anxiety and insomnia.

But if you can't follow those rules you
Can end up
In a world of shit like passiflora or
Dead like summer daisies.

Speaking of passiflora passionflower extract is another supplement I
Am using
To substitute for etizolam.

I
Must say this 300
Mg dose of kava is really feeling gold right now, maybe because
Of synergy with the small
Amount
Of
Etiz
In my system or the other supplements I took.


Sorry for the wierd spacing of this post my phone is being wierd.


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InvisibleDudits
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19406336 - 01/11/14 11:42 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I've drunk kava probably every other day for over a year and I feel perfectly fine, great stuff.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Dudits]
    #19406515 - 01/12/14 12:59 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Dudits said:
I've drunk kava probably every other day for over a year and I feel perfectly fine, great stuff.




Awesome! That's great to know. Can you please share your method of ingesting and preparing it in as much detail as possible? I would like to do it the exact same way as you, since you seem to be doing it safely.

Have you ever taken any extracts or concentrated kava products? Or do you use raw root?


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InvisibleDudits
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19406542 - 01/12/14 01:12 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I buy black or white sand from nakamalathome. If I haven't drank in a while I will heat 1cup water and mix in some some soy lecithin then let it cool, and then mix with powered root. Otherwise I just soak the powder in a little less than a cup of water in the fridge for 15 min (taste better cold). I put 4 heaping tablespoons put in a small paint strainer and pour the water over it, then put it in the fridge. 15 min later I take it out and knead the kava in the strainer, and you have 1 bowl. Then after I have made one bowl I put the same kava still in the strainer into a glass and add water to let it soak in the fridge. When im ready I make the second bowl. Depending on how strong the decline bowl is I will either dump the strainer and start fresh for a third or try and get one more bowl out of it. Always drink on an empty stomach and about an hour before bed I drink maybe a liter of water so I dont feel dehydrated in the morning.


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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19407208 - 01/12/14 07:29 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

If anybody's interested in some kava kava extract, I'm selling the stuff I bought (https://hyperionherbs.com/shop/kava-extract-4-oz/). Did 8 teaspoons, so obviously I'll give you a big discount. Good opportunity to try the stuff out.


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Offlinesololas
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: s240779]
    #19407240 - 01/12/14 07:46 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
If anybody's interested in some kava kava extract, I'm selling the stuff I bought (https://hyperionherbs.com/shop/kava-extract-4-oz/). Did 8 teaspoons, so obviously I'll give you a big discount. Good opportunity to try the stuff out.



Not your cup of tea?
In all seriousness the amount of radiation that Japan has lost to the enviroment is way, way beyond our knowledge, the tuna that run from Japan back to west coast have reports of highest mercury contant ever found in fish and that didn't happen until after the meltdown. We are hoi.g to see alot of problems arise from Japan's RISING SUN...


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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: sololas]
    #19407244 - 01/12/14 07:49 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Seems like it's not really fit for someone who is genuinely stressed out. Perhaps it's more of a muscle relaxer -- lacking in psychotropic action.


We have studied in animals and man various extracts, extracted chemicals and congeners of piper methysticum (Kava Kava). The main pharmacological action is like that of central relaxants of the mephenesin-type as shown by a specific antagonism to strychnine infusion. Compared to modern synthetic central relaxants all of the Kava congeners are relatively inactive. The most active congener appears to be dihydromethysticin, but this compound when given to man in the dosage range of 800 to 1200 mgm daily produces side effects and allergic skin reactions. The crude root and extract produces a yellowing of the skin similar to that reported in the Kava drinkers of Samoa. From the data now available, further study of Kava as a modern medicinal agent would not appear to be needed.

Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs (eds. D. H. Efron, R. Holmstedt, and N. S. Klein) (1967), page 160


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OfflineSunnyD
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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: s240779]
    #20392267 - 08/08/14 03:27 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I got ssave kava tea today, going to start with 2 nags that's about 148mg of cava


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Re: Is kava kava extract safe? [Re: SunnyD]
    #20392713 - 08/08/14 05:30 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

kava tea in bags sucks, so does the extract.


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