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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19376304 - 01/06/14 08:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Oh I'm sure they never even considered natural carbon emissions :facepalm:

You should write a letter to let them know.  It'll blow the whole issue wide open, bro.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19376359 - 01/06/14 08:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well maybe not carbon, but the spectrum of other gases and emissions that our earth can produce.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19376399 - 01/06/14 08:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Dude, all of that is well known by the experts and many laymen.

Natural processes have been going on since the beginning of time, yet CO2 levels are higher than they've been in 400,000 years.  As carbon is emitted, it is also absorbed by natural processes.  Since the industrial revolution (especially the last 50 years), the CO2 released into the atmosphere has resulted in a significant increase in concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere because the absorption processes are not keeping up with the emissions.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19376431 - 01/06/14 09:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Haven't tree ring studies in Europe theorized that overall global temperatures were warmer during the roman empire through the middle ages?

and ease up counselor, I'm just talking with you. I mean no static


Edited by myc_check1212 (01/06/14 09:05 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19376475 - 01/06/14 09:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Dude, all of that is well known by the experts and many laymen.

Natural processes have been going on since the beginning of time, yet CO2 levels are higher than they've been in 400,000 years.  As carbon is emitted, it is also absorbed by natural processes.  Since the industrial revolution (especially the last 50 years), the CO2 released into the atmosphere has resulted in a significant increase in concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere because the absorption processes are not keeping up with the emissions.




That the temperatures failed to keep rising as predicted with the level of CO2 in the atmosphere should be enough for the doom-and-gloom set to realize that we don't really have sufficient knowledge of our ecosystem to make the claims that so many have made.

The Earth warms. The Earth cools. Likely it will be forever so. "Experts" running around screaming the sky is falling and that we have but weeks/months/years to make changes before we are too far fucked to be saved... helped no-one.

The models were wrong. The claims of an increase in deadly storms was wrong. Soaring temperatures didn't happen. The lowlands have not flooded. The ozone layer has not failed. The ice-age predicted a few decades ago never came to be. The 97% number has been shown to be bogus.

I'm in favor of clean air. It looks, smells and tastes better. I'm not in favor of running around like Chicken Little jeopardizing our economy on a wild experiment.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19376522 - 01/06/14 09:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't advocated for any specific response at all to global warming.  I also haven't made or endorsed any "doom and gloom" claims.  I have simply stated that there is no legitimate scientific debate about whether global warming is happening or whether human activity is a significant cause of it.


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OfflineEddYerb
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... *DELETED* [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19376607 - 01/06/14 10:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19376783 - 01/06/14 11:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I haven't advocated for any specific response at all to global warming.  I also haven't made or endorsed any "doom and gloom" claims.




Then I guess it's a good thing I didn't claim you did.


Quote:

I have simply stated that there is no legitimate scientific debate about whether global warming is happening or whether human activity is a significant cause of it.




Except, there are those who seemingly make legitimate claims to the contrary.

There is no shortage of scientists that claim the cycles are not unusual and that there is scant evidence that humans are to blame, or at least "significantly" to blame.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: EddYerb] * 1
    #19376805 - 01/06/14 11:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EddYerb said:
It's going to be a relatively slow process. It will take many years before the effects become overwhelmingly apparent. But freak weather events and seasonal changes should be a good indicator for you.

Talk to most people who actually know the land that they live in and they will tell you that the weather has changed dramatically from when they were younger.




Ah yes, the anecdotal bunch of crap claims. I'm 56. I know the land I live in. Just about every year I hear some claim that storms are better/worse, that the snow is heavier/lighter, that the temps are higher/lower and that the seasons started later/earlier than ever. And just as often when someone actually looks at long-term weather there is little to no difference in anything other than the short-term.

What freak events?

-----
Sorry Global Warmists, But Extreme Weather Events Are Becoming Less Extreme

Just about every type of extreme weather event is becoming less frequent and less severe in recent years as our planet continues its modest warming in the wake of the Little Ice Age. While global warming activists attempt to spin a narrative of ever-worsening weather, the objective facts tell a completely different story.

New Records for Lack of Tornadoes

New data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration show the past 12 months set a record for the fewest tornadoes in recorded history. Not only did Mother Nature just set a record for lack of tornado activity, she absolutely shattered the previous record for fewest tornadoes in a 12-month period. During the past 12 months, merely 197 tornadoes struck the United States. Prior to this past year, the fewest tornadoes striking the United States during a 12-month period occurred from June 1991 through July 1992, when 247 tornadoes occurred.

The new tornado record is particularly noteworthy because of recent advances in tornado detection technology. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is able to detect more tornadoes in recent years than in prior decades due to technological advances. Even with such enhanced tornado detection capability, the past 12 months shattered all prior records for recorded tornadoes.

NOAA posted a list of the five “lowest non-overlapping 12 month counts on record from 1954-present.” Notably, each of these low-tornado periods occur since 1986, precisely during the time period global warming alarmists claim global warming is causing more extreme weather events such as tornadoes. According to NOAA, the lowest non-overlapping 12 month counts on record from 1954-present, with the starting month, are:

197 tornadoes – starting in May 2012

247 tornadoes – starting in June 1991

270 tornadoes – starting in November 1986

289 tornadoes – starting in December 2001

298 tornadoes – starting in June 2000

On a related note, a new record for the longest stretch of consecutive days without a tornado death occurred during 2012 and 2013.

New Records for Lack of Hurricanes

Hurricane inactivity is also setting all-time records. The United States is undergoing its longest stretch in recorded history without a major hurricane strike, with each passing day extending the unprecedented lack of severe hurricanes, according to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration data.

It has been more than 2,750 days since a major hurricane struck the United States. This easily smashes the prior record of less than 2,300 days between major hurricane strikes.

Although global warming activists and their media allies often claim global warming is making extreme weather events more frequent and severe, virtually all extreme weather events are becoming less frequent and less severe as our planet gradually warms.

Droughts, Wildfires, Etc.

Pretty much all other extreme weather events are becoming less frequent and less severe, also. Soil moisture is in long-term improvement at nearly all sites in the Global Soil Moisture Data Bank. Droughts are less frequent and less severe than in prior, colder centuries. The number of wildfires is in long-term decline despite a recent change in wildfire policy that no longer actively suppresses wildfires. Just about any way you measure it, extreme weather events are becoming quite rare.
-----


Quote:

And it just so happens that policies aiming to prevent global warming such as increased support for renewable energy and alternatives to  petrol will also benefit most people in the long term due to a decrease in cost of energy and electricity.




Good. I'll celebrate when that actually happens.

The chicken-littles have no better legs to stand on than anyone else does, It's simply a matter of who believes who.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/06/14 11:36 AM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19378916 - 01/06/14 07:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I have simply stated that there is no legitimate scientific debate about whether global warming is happening or whether human activity is a significant cause of it.



And there you are wrong. There is in fact legitimate scientific debate about the level of human contribution to what little warming may (or may not) have occurred in the last couple of centuries. The science most definitely is not settled.

You seem to believe the standard Leftist line that only reactionary illiterates hypnotized by the likes of Glenn Beck dispute the role of human activity in the matter. This again shows how little you know on the matter compared to myself. There is in fact a growing number of highly-credentialed, highly-respected scientists who have proposed alternate explanations for recent temperature changes that track far more closely with the temperature record than does the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, including but not limited to the PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscillation) and the alteration of cosmic ray flux by solar activity.

As well, there are dozens of scientists and statisticians exposing the ongoing fraudulent manipulation of the historical temperature record, pointing out the incredibly bad siting of vast swathes of surface temperature weather stations that result in those stations grossly exaggerating what little warming there has been, debunking the infamous "hockey stick" graph and its more recent siblings, releasing thousands of e-mails from leading lights of the Alarmist movement showing their concerted efforts to suppress the publication of any papers that might upset the money-laden applecart that is government funding on climate research, highlighting the total failure of any of the dozens of GCM projections to even come close to observed temperatures over the last seventeen years and much, much more. The people doing all the above are not knuckle-dragging, cousin-poking, corncob smokin' good ole boys takin' time out from going to tailgate parties at NASCAR events and buying Ann Coulter books, they are people with advanced degrees (often multiple degrees) in scientific fields. And there are thousands of them.

Not only is there legitimate debate, the preponderance of evidence is on the side of the skeptics.


Phred


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Phred]
    #19379076 - 01/06/14 07:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

At some point you have to ask yourself, "Are all those scientists, with fancy PhDs in every possible field, who are over 90% in agreement with each other that Global Warming is real, wrong, after spending lifetimes studying the data...And am I really right?"



And what of the thousands of scientists equivalent in every way to the ones you just described, who disagree with them? Scientists like Richard Linzen, Judith Curry, Willy Soon, Idso, Tol and literally thousands of others?

The alarmists bluster "the science is settled" and "the consensus is solid", but neither statement is even remotely true. The link I provided shows the split is as close as damn to 50-50 in the largest scientific body of atmospheric scientists in the world - the American Meteorological Society. Half and half.

So which half is right? The alarmists or the skeptics? The observed data is on the side of the skeptics. Observation trumps speculation every time, my friend.


Phred




So then, this is just propaganda?

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Confucian]
    #19379379 - 01/06/14 08:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What does NASA know?  Phred is the preeminent expert on global warming.  Didn't you get the memo?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Confucian] * 2
    #19380944 - 01/07/14 04:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

So then, this is just propaganda?



Follow the money.


Phred


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #19382432 - 01/07/14 01:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've read some of this guys stuff. When he starts to worry, I'll start to worry.

The entire article is pretty interesting, but on a website where TLDR seems to be the mantra... I just posted a few bits.

MIT’s Richard Lindzen, the unalarmed climate scientist


Quote:

When you first meet Richard Lindzen, the Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology at MIT, senior fellow at the Cato Institute, leading climate “skeptic,” and all-around scourge of James Hansen, Bill McKibben, Al Gore, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and sundry other climate “alarmists,” as Lindzen calls them, you may find yourself a bit surprised.





Quote:

Where Lindzen hasn’t remained is in the mainstream of his discipline. By the 1980s, global warming was becoming a major political issue. Already, Lindzen was having doubts about the more catastrophic predictions being made. The public rollout of the “alarmist” case, he notes, “was immediately accompanied by an issue of Newsweek declaring all scientists agreed. And that was the beginning of a ‘consensus’ argument. Already by ’88 the New York Times had literally a global warming beat.” Lindzen wasn’t buying it. Nonetheless, he remained in the good graces of mainstream climate science, and in the early 1990s, he was invited to join the IPCC, a U.N.-backed multinational consortium of scientists charged with synthesizing and analyzing the current state of the world’s climate science. Lindzen accepted, and he ended up as a contributor to the 1995 report and the lead author of Chapter 7 (“Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks”) of the 2001 report. Since then, however, he’s grown increasingly distant from prevalent (he would say “hysterical”) climate science, and he is voluminously on record disputing the predictions of catastrophe.





Quote:

But Lindzen rejects the dire projections. For one thing, he says that the Summary for Policymakers is an inherently problematic document. The IPCC report itself, weighing in at thousands of pages, is “not terrible. It’s not unbiased, but the bias [is] more or less to limit your criticism of models,” he says. The Summary for Policymakers, on the other hand—the only part of the report that the media and the politicians pay any attention to—“rips out doubts to a large extent. .  .  . [Furthermore], government representatives have the final say on the summary.” Thus, while the full IPPC report demonstrates a significant amount of doubt among scientists, the essentially political Summary for Policymakers filters it out.




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Phred]
    #19388710 - 01/08/14 03:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
The reverse is true. It is quite obvious your entire knowledge of the subject amounts to "97% of the people who should know say they believe it". The problem is that this number is completely fraudulent.

On the other hand, my knowledge on the subject is vast. I've looked into this issue more deeply than anyone else posting on this forum, hands down.




That's only because you banned me for five days.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Phred]
    #19404637 - 01/11/14 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

So then, this is just propaganda?



Follow the money.


Phred





LOL, Im sure the same could be said of the global warming deniers or those that deny that global warming is the result of the burning of fossil fuels. I wonder how many pre-eminent scientists have received grant money from Shell or BP.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19404653 - 01/11/14 04:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Phred said:
The reverse is true. It is quite obvious your entire knowledge of the subject amounts to "97% of the people who should know say they believe it". The problem is that this number is completely fraudulent.

On the other hand, my knowledge on the subject is vast. I've looked into this issue more deeply than anyone else posting on this forum, hands down.




That's only because you banned me for five days.




Dont worry, I got a warning, I guess we got out of hand on that one thread, Zappa, im sorry i insulted you and others, I normally try not to be so crass in my debates.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19405055 - 01/11/14 06:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It was all on me.  I know how to play the game and I slipped.  Phred has also been under pressure from nitwits complaining that he shows favoritism.  He did what he had to do.  It's all good.


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19408523 - 01/12/14 02:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I noticed in this thread a little misconception. That climate change = global warming. I studied Environmental Engineering is college and a big chunk of a few of my classes went towards studying climate change. I had the opportunity to have access to several college studies from varying schools across the country when doing to research. Sadly I can't really access those anymore because it was on the school networks.

Anyways to sum it all up. what has been observed in the last 100 years is that the high and lows of our weather extremes are getting farther apart. During the first half of the century up to the 1970's the overall climate was fairly predictable and stable. Now we are having some years with several feet of snow and the next year its barely snowing. This rate of average increase and the variance from year to year is VERY uncommon in earths history judging from ice core samples they have been researching for the last 100 years. So overall the global climate is changing very rapidly.

The leading explanation is the increase in green house gases that help to generate just slight increase in overall global temperature avg. Its not much but in polar regions where just a little bit warmer means thousands of miles of ice melting this causes fresh water to pour into the ocean disrupting major ocean currents that help facilitate overall global patterns. Which in turn effect the speed and location of the jet streams around the world (polar vortex anyone).

People have spent their entire careers researching this. It is scientifically sound and can be explained using the laws of thermodynamics.

The leading contributing factors to green house gases is livestock farming, industry/power, cars, then natural processes (includes forest decay and volcanoes). I believe that's in order if I remember correctly.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: pretzelking]
    #19408579 - 01/12/14 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Correlation does not equal causation.

But with that said, if thermodynamis is at the root of climate change then one has to consider solar activity.  Solar activity generates vastly more energy than all the process on the earth combined, and it also correlates with changing climate patterns and currents.


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