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OfflineFatBath
Turtle Wannabe

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 89
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Discipline and Mortification
    #19386492 - 01/08/14 04:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My friend showed me the lyrics to an Ohm song tonight, <Meditation is Death Practice.>

Why can't I constantly be seeking this physical, strategic action with love bonding transcendence heart focus?

Anyway, I don't do any of those two things enough to even begin to explain the fine points of their differences.  Shouldn't my life be established and cultivated around a core of ethics and not be this squeamish, haphazard grab bag, low-end extravaganza conundrum?

What do you do for the trimmings, temperance, and gathering of power?

I have heard mortifications for their own sake, without true-hearted deeper purpose, can open abilities. - . Abilities that are distractions to higher learning.

Any spiritual path takes great discipline to physically \mentally] investigate.

What inspires discipline?


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
motional
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Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: FatBath]
    #19387305 - 01/08/14 10:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't understand all of what you've written, but don't expect drastic changes in the short term.

I have some makeshift, patchwork means of inspiring discipline in me.

Making obligations to other people often seems to work better for me than a self-contained resolve. I can't seem to keep my word to myself, but I'll be dragged through the shit before I abandon my covenants with others.

Rearranging my environment in fleeting moments of strength can help as well. Cut out the distractions that shade the sprouting flowers from the light of day. I put myself in a 'you have no choice but to be with this (practice/feeling/person/problem)' situation, with no escape.

My hope is that, with attentive observation, I'll sort what feels to be of value from the cyclic habit-train. And have those lessons at hand, ready when it all comes 'round again.

I feel it's working, to some extent and slowly.


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OfflineKickleM
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Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: FatBath]
    #19387377 - 01/08/14 10:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FatBath said:
My friend showed me the lyrics to an Ohm song tonight, <Meditation is Death Practice.>

Why can't I constantly be seeking this physical, strategic action with love bonding transcendence heart focus?

Anyway, I don't do any of those two things enough to even begin to explain the fine points of their differences.  Shouldn't my life be established and cultivated around a core of ethics and not be this squeamish, haphazard grab bag, low-end extravaganza conundrum?

What do you do for the trimmings, temperance, and gathering of power?

I have heard mortifications for their own sake, without true-hearted deeper purpose, can open abilities. - . Abilities that are distractions to higher learning.

Any spiritual path takes great discipline to physically \mentally] investigate.

What inspires discipline?




Circumstances and early life seem to determine discipline to a large extent. If you look at a place like Tibet you might notice they take young children to become the next generation of disciplined monks. The lifestyle is taught and reinforced very early.

Does that mean it is impossible to become disciplined? Nah I don't think so. But it is a lot more difficult. It requires a lot more patience, a lot more effort, and the right movement. If trying to cultivate discipline leads to consequences, it will not work. The cultivation process has to be rewarding. Faith can help in the periods of time when progress is not seen immediately. But faith alone will not change behavior. The behavioral changes need to be rewarding. At least that's how I see it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: Kickle]
    #19387620 - 01/08/14 11:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes its very important to raise children with discipline, I dont mean that you need to have all kinds of rules and never allow the children to have fun but I mean discpline in the sense that the child learn that there are much bigger principles governing life than their immediate or even long term desires and real harmony in life can be achieved only by living in accordance with these principles, not by struggling against them.

Now as an adult I have founf that if I had to compare happiness that comes from getting what I want vs happiness that comes from eliminating extraneous desires, I find the latter to be far superior and more stable.

Its a shame I was not taught discipline as a child. Its much more difficult to change bad habits after youve grown up with them then when your way of life is still being molded and you are still innocent.


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Invisiblehmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: FatBath] * 1
    #19389420 - 01/08/14 05:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What inspires discipline?




check out this short dharma talk

I think of discipline as coming from understanding or wisdom.  When I can see clearly, I know what is good to do and what is harmful; not because I memorized a list of good and bad things, but because I can feel and see where my actions are leading in my present experience.  When I know what's best, I naturally want to do it.  That is discipline.

When other people see this, they think that you have some incredible power over your own mind.  Actually it's just knowing what's best...like, if somebody insults you and you are aware enough to see that anger isn't going to help, you aren't going to get angry.  This isn't because you imposed some discipline on your mind that naturally wanted to be angry; you're aware enough that your mind naturally doesn't want to go there.  It's like knowing that fire will burn you; when you know this, you don't fuck with fire. :heart:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: hmmn]
    #19390355 - 01/08/14 08:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Very nice :thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: hmmn]
    #19397811 - 01/10/14 08:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i would argue that's not discipline you're talking bout tho?


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dripping with fantasy


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: Kickle]
    #19397815 - 01/10/14 08:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

would you consider yourself disciplined Kickle?


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dripping with fantasy


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: quinn]
    #19398126 - 01/10/14 09:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In a few select ways yes but in general no. I'm fairly disciplined in loving kindness as I practice it every day. I also consider myself quite attentive and with sharp focus. That is where my discipline lays.

How do you see discipline quinn?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: Kickle]
    #19400399 - 01/10/14 05:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

nice..

that sounds like a good nye resolution to me.. i would like to consciously practice kindness more tho my hangups and personal weaknesses and paranoia def tend to be an obstruction :crazy:

i'd think of discipline as a technique of teaching and learning. i think of it as something morally strict, inflexible, rigorous and consistent in it's approach.

i think like all things it can be done to better or worse effects, perhaps most important is the intention behind the disciplinarian

as an outlook i think discipline can be great in staying true to your deeper beliefs and managing fear but but can be bad in closing other people out of your perspective (or something).


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: quinn]
    #19401571 - 01/10/14 11:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
as an outlook i think discipline can be great in staying true to your deeper beliefs and managing fear but but can be bad in closing other people out of your perspective (or something).




That's a pretty insightful look man. I agree that discipline can be both enabling and disabling. I wonder if being undisciplined has an upside to go with its downside :strokebeard:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Discipline and Mortification [Re: Kickle]
    #19404875 - 01/11/14 05:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

thanks dude.. i can def see it having advantages in learning but in terms of outlook it is hard to say..

idk if being undisciplined is being inconsistent, one can be very disciplined and be inconsistent and that is bad imo.

perhaps an advantage of being undisciplined is allowing for seemingly inconsistent behavior & stances without betraying yourself..


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


Edited by quinn (01/11/14 05:31 PM)


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