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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 3,352
Loc: The land, Ohio
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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starting a herbarium
#19404300 - 01/11/14 03:10 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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So I am FINALLY starting my herbarium and I have a couple questions. How should I store them after dried? I read a plastic baggie with a double Ziploc is good. And also, do you typically need to keep a spore print with each new specimen? If so, how would I keep the spores? And the whole collection needs to be kept at a certain temperature range? Or will that not matter so much with dried specimens? Thank you guys for any suggestions or advice. And sorry if this is in the wrong place...figured a lot of you guys on here have your own herbar thanks!
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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suchen
Once and Future Noob



Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,841
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19404613 - 01/11/14 04:27 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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I would purchase or purloin a filing cabinet, or even just a filing box where you can keep everything organised. If you are serious about an herbarium, I think the easiest way to organize them is by observation number on Mushroom Observer. Genus and species name can change over time, but the M.O. number will always be the same. I dry my samples thorougly with a dehydrator.
-------------------- Rod Tulloss said: The bulb is the bulb. The volva is the volva. They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: suchen]
#19404834 - 01/11/14 05:14 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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That's a good idea. So, I would post each specimen to MO and they will assign a number or I have to make a number? I put the one from yesterday on MO, a Calostoma lutescens I think, to try and get a species for sure, so that should have a number already?... still haven't had any observations from anyone yet though...
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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Gravija
Make way for the cavalcade


Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Chicago, Illinois, USA
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19404873 - 01/11/14 05:22 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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You could just stuff thousands of plastic bags of dried specimens in various carboard boxes in your basement then cuss a lot when someone asks you to send them one because you know you forgot which box it is in and you are pretty sure you just labelled it as "fuck this" and the date you found it. That's what I do.
-------------------- Listen to my music Here
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 3,352
Loc: The land, Ohio
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: Gravija]
#19404929 - 01/11/14 05:40 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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i came here to ask some questions because if I dont, i know thats where I'll be in 5 years... I KNOW THAT MYCENA IS HERE SOMEWHERE!!!
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: Gravija]
#19405058 - 01/11/14 06:11 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Gravija said: You could just stuff thousands of plastic bags of dried specimens in various carboard boxes in your basement then cuss a lot when someone asks you to send them one because you know you forgot which box it is in and you are pretty sure you just labelled it as "fuck this" and the date you found it. That's what I do.
I know that feeling.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19405528 - 01/11/14 07:53 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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The specimens need to be kept cool & dry. Once well dried, ziplock bags can do a good job.
You also need to protect them from insect infestations. If there are lots of bugs where you live, you might consider using moth balls to repel potential insect invaders.
To keep them organized, you will need to number them somehow. Suchen suggested one possible method. I'm sure you could think of others without too much thought. Make sure each and every specimen is labelled with their number. It's also a good idea to have a paper tag or something similar in each collection that also has the collection number.
As to how to organize them so you can get them back later, you could put them in numeric order, and label the boxes or filing cabinets or whatever so you know which specimens are where.
The bookkeeping for an herbarium can be fairly time consuming. You will need to plan for it if you want to be able to retrieve selected specimens at any indefinite time in the future.
One last thought - what do you plan to do with them, long term? Not that we need to know, but those plans are likely to affect how you should set up and maintain your herbarium.
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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TimmiT


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 5,303
Loc: Victoria
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19405748 - 01/11/14 08:45 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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This site has some good basic info on the subject (see the "building a useful resource" section).
-------------------- "Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 3,352
Loc: The land, Ohio
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: TimmiT]
#19405842 - 01/11/14 09:09 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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thank you both very much! @ToxicMan - on your last thought, im not really sure i have a plan for what i am going to do with them later on... one thing i would like to do is study my collection when i can get a decent scope and a good objective. and should i be printing each specimen also? (not for ID but for my collection) how would i go about saving a spore print for future study?
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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RuralAnomaly
Sporadic


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2,153
Loc: Spitzenkörper Ohio
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19405970 - 01/11/14 09:45 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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i want one that has like those robotic arms that run down a stainless steel rail and open little drawers and pull out specimens that are kept in little cryogenic vials that make cool vapor trails as they slowly yet methodically make their way to the marble lab table where my lovely assistant breathes on them until they're warmed up enough to scope.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 9 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19405994 - 01/11/14 09:53 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
art2312 said: How should I store them after dried?
It is super important to dry the collections with a dehydrator, and then before it cools down from the dehydrator put the collection into a new ziplock bag. This will prevent mold from eating the mushrooms.
Usually spore prints are not kept, but they are nice to keep. It is best to make spore photos from a print.
Keep the spores on tinfoil, in a brand new little ziplock bag. Label all prints and dried mushrooms with the mushroomobserver.org observation number. It is a good idea to organize your herbarium by MO number as well.
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 3,352
Loc: The land, Ohio
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
art2312 said: How should I store them after dried?
It is super important to dry the collections with a dehydrator, and then before it cools down from the dehydrator put the collection into a new ziplock bag. This will prevent mold from eating the mushrooms.
Usually spore prints are not kept, but they are nice to keep. It is best to make spore photos from a print.
Keep the spores on tinfoil, in a brand new little ziplock bag. Label all prints and dried mushrooms with the mushroomobserver.org observation number. It is a good idea to organize your herbarium by MO number as well.
Thank you Alan, very much. I started making the observations today and im keeping track of my specimens with that MO number. How long will the tinfoil and ziploc keep the spores for microscopic study?
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19406087 - 01/11/14 10:25 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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I've often wondered if there could possibility be herbarium entries for mushrooms that easily turn into goop like some Coprinus species do. How do they store them long-term without liquifying?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 9 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19406406 - 01/12/14 12:10 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
art2312 said: How long will the tinfoil and ziploc keep the spores for microscopic study?
About 5000 years.
Every 500 years or so, it is recommended that you replace the ziplock bags.
Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: I've often wondered if there could possibility be herbarium entries for mushrooms that easily turn into goop like some Coprinus species do. How do they store them long-term without liquifying?
They dry them when they are young.
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Joust
Mycotographer




Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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If you are trying to preserve alkaloidal content or chemicals that might possibly oxidize, place very dry mushrooms in a jar with and fill with an inert gas like c02 from dry ice
-------------------- ~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~ _________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________ "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen "Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 1 hour, 9 minutes
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If you dry the Coprinus types quickly you can generally get a reasonable specimen. I understand that Ulje would cover some of the worst with dried silica gel to dry them extra quickly. It has the unfortunate side effect of leaving the specimen covered in "sand", but you can get small mushrooms dried really fast that way.
Where I live it's normally pretty dry, so I can just have them out in the open air rather than some sort of container and make sure the air is moving to get them dried before I get home. The ones that deliquesce the fastest are the tiny ones.
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Loc: Norvegr
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19407059 - 01/12/14 06:17 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
art2312 said: How should I store them after dried?
Plastic containers/cups with screw caps are good, like some of the ones here:
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/urine-sample-containers.html
However you will need a bigger house when things start to take off.
--------------------
★★★★★
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Stopwhispering
The voodoo peoples



Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 4,390
Loc: Melbourne
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Every 500 years or so, it is recommended that you replace the ziplock bags.
I've found that the most optimal time to replace ziplock bags is 497.3 years. I have no idea how you came up with a figure of 500 years.
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19407164 - 01/12/14 07:09 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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It might be helpful to add that some collections will inevitably require DNA testing. I provided samples to a lab recently and they asked that I dehydrate the mushrooms at 105 degrees but no higher.
When you purchase a dehydrator remember to find one that has a temperature dial so you can set it to 105.
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
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Thank you all for the helpful advice and links! I cant wait to get started on this...i have so many ideas
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 9 hours, 12 minutes
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Quote:
The Lightning said: It might be helpful to add that some collections will inevitably require DNA testing. I provided samples to a lab recently and they asked that I dehydrate the mushrooms at 105 degrees but no higher.
When you purchase a dehydrator remember to find one that has a temperature dial so you can set it to 105.
See http://www.kahaku.go.jp/research/publication/botany/download/37_3/BNMNS_B370301.pdf
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The Lightning
Mycology Enthusiast


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 3,889
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Okay, so I stand corrected. 'Didn't know that 'til now.
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
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So i should probably dry them at higher temps and just try and get very good pictures of the fresh specimen for records. I wanted to try and keep the specimens looking as close as possible to the fresh fruits but i'd rather try and preserve the DNA. Beautiful looking specimens are nice to look at, but if they are scientifically useless then their isn't any point in taking the fruits in the first place...
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 9 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: starting a herbarium [Re: art2312]
#19408358 - 01/12/14 01:24 PM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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I think the most important part is that they are well dried and put into a ziplock bag, the exact temperature is secondary. But I think it makes sense to not heat them more than necessary, since dna is a pretty fragile molecule.
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
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no doubt! it seems like the ideal thing to do is dry them as quickly as you can without over heating them... in that link you posted before, the highest temp they dried them at was 159.8F and they got quality DNA from all of those specimens... so that'll probably be the route i take as well.
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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