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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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I had to plug up some holes...
    #19374763 - 01/05/14 08:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So, i made a  SGFC and i thought it would work great. However, the chamber inside is getting really dry. I have to spray it all the time cause it always looks super dry.


So, to help with the dry out problem, i plugged up about half the holes, in a checkers pattern, with pieces of perlite. Seems to be working better, not drying out as much. I think next time, im drilling 1/8" holes instead, or using some polyfill for half the holes.

~ LC


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19374769 - 01/05/14 08:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I always took that as a good sign:shrug:


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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: cronicr]
    #19374792 - 01/05/14 09:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You should get a humidifier for your room. Your mushrooms will thank you. Removing fae in exchange for humidity isn't a great idea. If it works then more power to you, but I'm guessing they're gonna be long skinny and sad fruits.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19374798 - 01/05/14 09:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
So, i made a  SGFC and i thought it would work great. However, the chamber inside is getting really dry. I have to spray it all the time cause it always looks super dry.



You cannot see humidity.

There should be no condensation on the walls of a SGFC.

The water that gets on the walls from you misting your cakes should evaporate in a couple hours.

Evaporation of water means humidity is rising.....so if there is constant evaporation of water off the cakes there will be constant humidity.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
So, to help with the dry out problem, i plugged up about half the holes



This will definitely lower your humidity.....never tape any holes of a SGFC.....follow the damn tek.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I think next time, im drilling 1/8" holes instead, or using some polyfill for half the holes.



This has been done by the engineer responsible for the creation of the chamber.....it failed.

Follow the tek.... 1/4" holes every 2" on all 6 sides in a grid pattern, then fill it with 4-5 inches of moist perlite.

If this is done, and the chamber is in a room with no running fans, raised so air can pass up thru the holes in the bottom, your humidity is perfect.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: PussyFart]
    #19374819 - 01/05/14 09:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Taping holes lowers humidity, air has to flow through the perlite, the bottom holes need to be open and all the top holes too, to get convection (ie chimney effect) otherwise you just have wet perlite in the bottom of a tub and are asking for mildew with all the stagnant air, you're also asking for really shitty looking fruits.

The tek for the SGFC that's been tried and true by 10000's of people is not taped up for a reason. Until you know how it works I wouldn't try to modify it. Follow the directions to a T.

If you're going to do anything drill 3/8" holes they work better but you have to mist more.


Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/05/14 09:14 PM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19374846 - 01/05/14 09:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i knew this one would spark fire:evil:


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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19374862 - 01/05/14 09:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
So, i made a  SGFC and i thought it would work great. However, the chamber inside is getting really dry. I have to spray it all the time cause it always looks super dry.



You cannot see humidity.

There should be no condensation on the walls of a SGFC.

The water that gets on the walls from you misting your cakes should evaporate in a couple hours.

Evaporation of water means humidity is rising.....so if there is constant evaporation of water off the cakes there will be constant humidity.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
So, to help with the dry out problem, i plugged up about half the holes



This will definitely lower your humidity.....never tape any holes of a SGFC.....follow the damn tek.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I think next time, im drilling 1/8" holes instead, or using some polyfill for half the holes.



This has been done by the engineer responsible for the creation of the chamber.....it failed.

Follow the tek.... 1/4" holes every 2" on all 6 sides in a grid pattern, then fill it with 4-5 inches of moist perlite.

If this is done, and the chamber is in a room with no running fans, raised so air can pass up thru the holes in the bottom, your humidity is perfect.




:whathesaid:

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Taping holes lowers humidity, air has to flow through the perlite, the bottom holes need to be open and all the top holes too, to get convection (ie chimney effect) otherwise you just have wet perlite in the bottom of a tub and are asking for mildew with all the stagnant air, you're also asking for really shitty looking fruits.

The tek for the SGFC that's been tried and true by 10000's of people is not taped up for a reason. Until you know how it works I wouldn't try to modify it. Follow the directions to a T.

If you're going to do anything drill 3/8" holes they work better but you have to mist more.


Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.





Just in case you didn't get it. :wink: :whathesaid:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19398973 - 01/10/14 01:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Good news.

The plugging of half the holes on the top and sides (not the bottom) seems to be working. Im seeing some new pins and some mini mushrooms.its only near the base of the cake, which is nearest to the foil. Its a clsoed in space, which tells me the moisture there is highest.

I also know tthat the plugged holes are helping cause the water dropplets from my misting takes longer to evaporate. This is good, cause it was always dry when i mist it. I also noticed my 23 watt CFL was drying the water inside the tub too, so i got a new lamp that puts some distance between the tub and the light.

This all helps out real well. I know i have  to get a lower watt cfl cause this one gives off too much heat, leading to drying out inside the FC.

- LC


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Offlineurthtown
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19399028 - 01/10/14 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Good news.

The plugging of half the holes on the top and sides (not the bottom) seems to be working. Im seeing some new pins and some mini mushrooms.its only near the base of the cake, which is nearest to the foil. Its a clsoed in space, which tells me the moisture there is highest.

I also know tthat the plugged holes are helping cause the water dropplets from my misting takes longer to evaporate. This is good, cause it was always dry when i mist it. I also noticed my 23 watt CFL was drying the water inside the tub too, so i got a new lamp that puts some distance between the tub and the light.

This all helps out real well. I know i have  to get a lower watt cfl cause this one gives off too much heat, leading to drying out inside the FC.

- LC




You missed everybody's point... Everything everyone said went right over your head.

You're wrong about your assumption too. If it is taking longer to evaporate then your humidity is lower as the water is staying liquid longer. This is a BAD sign. You don't want the liquid water there when you mist again, you want it to all EVAPORATE, this is what makes HUMIDITY.

Look at the gif in my sig, see how the water droplets dry up between misting? That is what you want. Read what people wrote, don't assume you are smarter than the people who invented all these teks.


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Offlineurthtown
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: magickspore]
    #19399043 - 01/10/14 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

magickspore said:


Just in case you didn't get it. :wink:




He didn't get it...


--------------------
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: urthtown]
    #19399093 - 01/10/14 01:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lol I saw that. I was gonna do a :smbfacepalm: but decided it wasn't worth the effort.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: magickspore]
    #19399099 - 01/10/14 01:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

he probly wouldn't get it any way lol! i'm just bugging chaos but stop focusing on rh so mush, fae is more important in my opinion:wink:


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Offline2bittoker
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19399156 - 01/10/14 01:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

So, i made a  SGFC and i thought it would work great. However, the chamber inside is getting really dry. I have to spray it all the time cause it always looks super dry. 



I just had 10 cakes yield 2 ounces dry in complete winter conditions in a room that was kept about 64 degrees.  It was so dry, all the over spray and the gloss on my cakes would be gone in 30 minutes and I only sprayed 3 times a day and had shitty Miracle Grow perlite with very low surface area.  My first flush was actually stunted by overmisting. The humidity of the SGFC supported my cakes.

Quote:

So, to help with the dry out problem, i plugged up about half the holes, in a checkers pattern, with pieces of perlite. Seems to be working better, not drying out as much. I think next time, im drilling 1/8" holes instead, or using some polyfill for half the holes.


The SGFC has perfect FAE as designed for Cubensis.  It is not enough for CO2 intolerant species like Lions Mane (Have to leave lid off).  Plug holes, you'll create an environment too intolerant for any nice flushes.

If you see water on your cakes too long, your not getting evaporation, the number one pinning trigger and sign of FAE.  You're also creating an environment ripe for bacteria.

Quote:

The plugging of half the holes on the top and sides (not the bottom) seems to be working. Im seeing some new pins and some mini mushrooms.its only near the base of the cake, which is nearest to the foil. Its a clsoed in space, which tells me the moisture there is highest.


You're seeing mushrooms because your cakes were already close in the pinning cycle.  Pictures would help.  I bet if you let current conditions continue, people here will be able to identify signs of oversaturation from lack of evaporation and CO2 buildup. 

Quote:

I also know tthat the plugged holes are helping cause the water dropplets from my misting takes longer to evaporate. This is good, cause it was always dry when i mist it. I also noticed my 23 watt CFL was drying the water inside the tub too, so i got a new lamp that puts some distance between the tub and the light.


Thats a sign of shitty FAE, not good humidity.  You're inviting bacteria.


--------------------
“I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy.”
"Love does not claim possession, but gives freedom"
― Rabindranath Tagore

Stuff for New Growers
Where new growers should start: RogerRabbit's PF Tek video    How it Should and Shouldn't Look 
My Simplified Bulk Growing  My OJ Shroom Tek


Edited by 2bittoker (01/10/14 01:44 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: 2bittoker]
    #19399451 - 01/10/14 02:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

plugging up holes always will lower your RH and lower your FAE. You think you have more RH because you have less FAE and more water is staying behind but it's not staying behind because the RH is up it's staying behind because all the air is stale which is suffocating your mushrooms and inviting bacteria. But don't take our word for it we've only built 100s of SGFCs and done 10000s of cakes between all of us that have learned from experience.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19399692 - 01/10/14 03:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeeah yeaah, i know its a tried and true method, thousands of people of done, works "Perfectly", etc, etc....


The problem is i know some of my cakes have dried out. I know the difference between a dried out cake and one that is freshly birthed and still has moisture.


The issue is that i am gone from home 10 hours a day, for 5 days a week. And during that time is the light cycle. And my light is drying the cakes along with the extreme FAE. I dont have the luxury of misting every 4 hours during the day. Ive seen how fast the water evaporates when im home. I spray the walls and lid, and within an hour, the entire box is dry. No drips on any walls. If theres no water to evaporate during those 9 other hours, then its just drying the water left in there, which was in the cakes and was-misted perlite.

After seeing Elastic Tigers air pump set up, i am willing to go back to that to keep humidity up. i know its not cakes, but its similar. Or maybe i will put a ultrasonic humidifier in the tub. Not sure yet. I know dry environments can stop mushroom growth. Ive seen it before. Its no bueno.

If there was an automatic mister, it would solve my issue. But since there is not, this design is not working to its best that its legacy describes.

- LC


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Offline2bittoker
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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19399758 - 01/10/14 03:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yeeah yeaah, i know its a tried and true method, thousands of people of done, works "Perfectly", etc, etc....


The problem is i know some of my cakes have dried out. I know the difference between a dried out cake and one that is freshly birthed and still has moisture.



Its SUPPOSED to dry out.  That is what triggers the pinning.  As long as you are misting 3-5 times a day, the mycelium is not weakening.  You will see bruising if the mycelium weakens.

This is why we dunk before the first flush and after every flush, to gorge the cake on water and let some evaporate off the surface until its dry, evaporation is the main pinning trigger.  Mine felt bone dry every day when I woke up, and again, I got 2 ounces dried out of the bitches.

Even cakes in a PMP will feel dry to the touch.

Quote:

The issue is that i am gone from home 10 hours a day, for 5 days a week. And during that time is the light cycle. And my light is drying the cakes along with the extreme FAE. I dont have the luxury of misting every 4 hours during the day. Ive seen how fast the water evaporates when im home. I spray the walls and lid, and within an hour, the entire box is dry. No drips on any walls. If theres no water to evaporate during those 9 other hours, then its just drying the water left in there, which was in the cakes and was-misted perlite.


This is normal.  As long as the humidity inside the box is above 90%, your cakes will flourish.  If your SGFC WASNT doing this, you would have an FAE problem.

Consider constructing a PMP or doing Monotubs if you need to be away for long periods.  But I leave my cakes for 8 hours sometimes with no problem.

Think about it: mushrooms thrive in the wild and dont need to be wet all the time to grow.  If they get too wet, they stop growing and sporulate.

Quote:

After seeing Elastic Tigers air pump set up, i am willing to go back to that to keep humidity up. i know its not cakes, but its similar. Or maybe i will put a ultrasonic humidifier in the tub. Not sure yet. I know dry environments can stop mushroom growth. Ive seen it before. Its no bueno.


That is an airpump in a monotub, it is much more moisture rich than cakes, which use a lot of water during colonization.  Use that and you can be sure your cakes will dry out in hours.

If you do run a humidifier, make sure its the impeller type and faces away from the chamber.


--------------------
“I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy.”
"Love does not claim possession, but gives freedom"
― Rabindranath Tagore

Stuff for New Growers
Where new growers should start: RogerRabbit's PF Tek video    How it Should and Shouldn't Look 
My Simplified Bulk Growing  My OJ Shroom Tek


Edited by 2bittoker (01/10/14 05:30 PM)


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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #19399761 - 01/10/14 03:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:facepalm: GL


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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: magickspore]
    #19399912 - 01/10/14 04:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you're worried about humidity put a humidifier IN YOUR ROOM. Humidifiers inside of anything is really only for greenhouses and the adventurous monotub grower. However, having one in your room would generally help out any mycologists, except maybe for us Michiganders in the summer.


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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19400322 - 01/10/14 05:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Most people are gone ~10 hours a day, It's called a Job, The SGFC is made specifically to cope with that problem. As well as the human sleep cycle. You should really try to pay attention to the videos and teks to get more comprehension out of them.


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Re: I had to plug up some holes... [Re: urthtown]
    #19400378 - 01/10/14 05:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

urthtown said:
You missed everybody's point... Everything everyone said went right over your head.

You're wrong about your assumption too. If it is taking longer to evaporate then your humidity is lower as the water is staying liquid longer. This is a BAD sign. You don't want the liquid water there when you mist again, you want it to all EVAPORATE, this is what makes HUMIDITY.

Look at the gif in my sig, see how the water droplets dry up between misting? That is what you want. Read what people wrote, don't assume you are smarter than the people who invented all these teks.




You're half right here.  Evaporation off the surface of the cakes is a good thing, for sure.  But that isn't what provides the bulk of the humidity in a SGFC--it's the thick layer of wet perlite at the bottom.  And if there are still droplets later, it does mean the relative humidity is high. 

OP, check your perlite.  If it's dry, rewet it by putting removing your cakes, putting it in the bathtub, hosing it down with your shower and then letting it drain.  Replace cakes.

The beauty of the SGFC is its ability to provide lots of FRESH moist air.  By covering up some of the holes, yes, you're able to increase humidity, but you do so at the expense of FAE and as a result your pinset and yield will suffer.  Unless you do a LOT more fanning (maybe more than your schedule permits).


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