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OfflineDeathcore
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RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims
    #19399866 - 01/10/14 04:00 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)



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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: Deathcore] * 1
    #19400097 - 01/10/14 04:40 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

LOL @ RT. Probably the most misleading way I've heard this spun. I can't even get over how ignorant the host is. First, to "expose" means to shed light on a subject--all the programs that are discussed have been totally declassified since 2001. Yes, pretty much all the info that is presented is true, but it's all presented in such a propagandistic way. This is to be expected, seeing as how RT is funded by the Russian government and is a mouthpiece against US imperialism and for Russian imperialism.

The host invalidly states:
"The US military has been experimenting in some experiments of 'mind control' for decades that will blow your mind"

My problem here is with verb tenses. This statement is falsely made in the present perfect progressive tense. She further designates one building where the operation took place during "the cold war." Such a timeless statement. You cannot validly say that because MKUltra was exposed and scrapped before the 70s even started that the US military "has been experimenting" with this. To say that is to mean that the US military was not only doing this in the past, but is still doing it. To be fair, they may be still doing this covertly, but no such operations have been confirmed after 1975.

Then she talks about how enlisted men volunteered to be injected with "over 150 different drugs" as if the CIA mixed 150 different psychoactive drugs together and started giving out party shots.

Pretty much just ignorant sensationalist "whistle-blowing" against operations which have been discontinued for decades and yielded very little useful tactical research.


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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: Deathcore]
    #19400127 - 01/10/14 04:46 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah, pretty sensationalist. Also, why is that chick so fucking hot? An obvious play to sexual appeal right there.

But the video raises the question at the end:What are they capable of today and what are they doing today? Doing their best to control the market of psychedelics. Control, not eradication. Putting snitches on the scene who aren't there to bust people but to keep an eye on those actively taking psychedelics on a regular basis.


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: mylfgur]
    #19400131 - 01/10/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

yeah, its nothing new at all, but I figured I'd post it just for the ones who are still asleep and maybe trust the MSM, or even some generic alternative news sites, popular or not.

talking about NK nuking us and stuff lol kinda weird because I get visions (not in a crazy kind of way, more of a logical stand point mixed with religious/endgame epiphanies and such) that a nuclear holocaust will happen in the next 100 years..

I have a feeling we might be controlled in ways we have no clue are possible, like radio hz, or chem trails, or the food..

I mean even a box of cheerios you wouldn't suspect could be infested with something.. But we all trust our labels and such... We've all seen dozens if not hundreds of boxes of cheerios in our life times, but are they exact replicas :wink:?


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Offlinelot_justice
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: Deathcore]
    #19400150 - 01/10/14 04:50 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

We're all being controlled. I just doubt that the government is really beyond that themselves, or if they are merely more aware of it than the normal citizen.


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: lot_justice]
    #19400311 - 01/10/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

they got the cures, antidotes, vaccines, un gmo'd food, etc... they got the technology and medicine basically..


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Offlinelot_justice
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: Deathcore]
    #19400404 - 01/10/14 05:44 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

From my experience with tripping, the face of the creator is on every molecule. If they had such cures or whatever, they are still just playing into what is expected of them.


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: lot_justice]
    #19400517 - 01/10/14 06:14 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

What if it all comes down to belief and death?

Believe the wrong thing, face punishment..after death

Maybe they think they are right.

Humans are parasites of the planet, invading a spot, sucking up all natural resources than moving to the next..

In their minds they are doing the right thing

In our minds, its evil and unnecessary..

Which side of the coin that you're on is a fine line..


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OfflineJesus Christ
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: lot_justice]
    #19401368 - 01/10/14 09:57 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

lot_justice said:
Yeah, pretty sensationalist. Also, why is that chick so fucking hot? An obvious play to sexual appeal right there.




we've gotten to the point that its not only normal for that but that its become the standard where smaller non-mainstream media has to imitate it (like here). then in latin america they took it to another level lol


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OfflineMushie23
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: Jesus Christ]
    #19402600 - 01/11/14 07:07 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

GMO Food is a great way to keep control on things.  Like MSG, isolates, yellow, red and blue chemicals(like Blue#3 and Yellow#2) and all the pesticides, fungicides, herbicides that are sprayed on most food.  I have no doubt these chemicals not only keep our body sick, but our minds as well

Combine that with people doing what their TV tells them and presto, control!


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Eat Mushrooms----plug into life and nature.


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: Mushie23]
    #19402779 - 01/11/14 08:38 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

but its not real control...

it may dumb down over time but look at all the elite athletes out there...

I'm talking about illusive control...like where freewill is controlled....where you think your choices are of your own mind....


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: mylfgur]
    #19402871 - 01/11/14 09:13 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
LOL @ RT. Probably the most misleading way I've heard this spun. .



I've never seen this aired before on any mainstream outlet. Whatever "spin" is put on it is mild. I would be surprised to see CNN, Fox, or MSNBC report this objectively if at all.
Quote:

I can't even get over how ignorant the host is. First, to "expose" means to shed light on a subject--all the programs that are discussed have been totally declassified since 2001. Yes, pretty much all the info that is presented is true, but it's all presented in such a propagandistic way.





Yeah they were declassified and the info remains in books and obscure blogs. She is bringing the story to a wider base that may not have spent the last 5 years reading drug forums in their mom's basement. She completely told the truth on the subject regardless of your opinion of how she "framed" it.
Quote:

"The US military has been experimenting in some experiments of 'mind control' for decades that will blow your mind"

My problem here is with verb tenses. This statement is falsely made in the present perfect progressive tense. She further designates one building where the operation took place during "the cold war." Such a timeless statement



The "Cold War" was one of the biggest motivations behind the earliest Army and CIA experiments with LSD. They bought up most of what Sandoz had for sale on the market almost immediately after discovering the properties that LSD had because of a distinct fear that the Russians were going to start their research of it's capability for enhancing interrogation and decapacitating soldiers. They had other reason to believe this as well including the advancement of ergot alkaloid production techniques and patents in Czechoslovakia, a communist state close to the Soviet Union. The early Army and CIA experiments were preemptive tactics based on cold-war sentiments and suspicions.

Quote:

. You cannot validly say that because MKUltra was exposed and scrapped before the 70s even started that the US military "has been experimenting" with this. To say that is to mean that the US military was not only doing this in the past, but is still doing it. To be fair, they may be still doing this covertly, but no such operations have been confirmed after 1975.



I agree with you We cannot validate that any ongoing experiments are occurring but we can only assume that they could be testing anything on us right now given the release of information like this. Let me ask you this: 30 years from now if they declassified information that said they were testing shit on us right now would you really be surprised? To believe that our government learned it's lesson and doesn't do things like this any more is wishful thinking and especially naive considering the post 9-11 anything goes mentality in the intelligence cabal. I can only imagine their chemical arsenal has been enhanced and supplemented with technological weaponry geared towards mind alteration, espionage and behavior control/suppression. 

Quote:

Then she talks about how enlisted men volunteered to be injected with "over 150 different drugs" as if the CIA mixed 150 different psychoactive drugs together and started giving out party shots.




They used a wide variety of drugs, that's what I understood her to be saying and it's true they did use a huge list of varying chemicals individually on different test subjects. You're misunderstanding if you think she was saying they were dosed with all 150 at the same time I'm not sure how you could jump to that conclusion. Esp when she talks about the data observed specifically in the LSD tests. You're reaching here.

Quote:

Pretty much just ignorant sensationalist "whistle-blowing" against operations which have been discontinued for decades and yielded very little useful tactical research.


For being sensationalist she sure left out some of the most sensationalist details of MK Ultra. They dosed LSD during Electroshock Therapy, Lobotomies - can you imagine a surgical instrument going into your brain's frontal lobe on LSD?

It's not as much of a whistle-blowing as it is a modern history lesson; news for some of us a review for the rest of us. The lesson in this story remains more valid today than ever. But I guess we should just assume it's all over and our government has matured to only care about our best interests and would NEVER EVER imperil the public's safety like that again. :rofl2:


--------------------


Edited by ShroomDoom (01/11/14 09:21 AM)


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #19403142 - 01/11/14 10:36 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

its happening now


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #19404447 - 01/11/14 03:52 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

mylfgur said:
LOL @ RT. Probably the most misleading way I've heard this spun. .



I've never seen this aired before on any mainstream outlet. Whatever "spin" is put on it is mild. I would be surprised to see CNN, Fox, or MSNBC report this objectively if at all.
Quote:

I can't even get over how ignorant the host is. First, to "expose" means to shed light on a subject--all the programs that are discussed have been totally declassified since 2001. Yes, pretty much all the info that is presented is true, but it's all presented in such a propagandistic way.





Yeah they were declassified and the info remains in books and obscure blogs. She is bringing the story to a wider base that may not have spent the last 5 years reading drug forums in their mom's basement. She completely told the truth on the subject regardless of your opinion of how she "framed" it.
Quote:

"The US military has been experimenting in some experiments of 'mind control' for decades that will blow your mind"

My problem here is with verb tenses. This statement is falsely made in the present perfect progressive tense. She further designates one building where the operation took place during "the cold war." Such a timeless statement



The "Cold War" was one of the biggest motivations behind the earliest Army and CIA experiments with LSD. They bought up most of what Sandoz had for sale on the market almost immediately after discovering the properties that LSD had because of a distinct fear that the Russians were going to start their research of it's capability for enhancing interrogation and decapacitating soldiers. They had other reason to believe this as well including the advancement of ergot alkaloid production techniques and patents in Czechoslovakia, a communist state close to the Soviet Union. The early Army and CIA experiments were preemptive tactics based on cold-war sentiments and suspicions.

Quote:

. You cannot validly say that because MKUltra was exposed and scrapped before the 70s even started that the US military "has been experimenting" with this. To say that is to mean that the US military was not only doing this in the past, but is still doing it. To be fair, they may be still doing this covertly, but no such operations have been confirmed after 1975.



I agree with you We cannot validate that any ongoing experiments are occurring but we can only assume that they could be testing anything on us right now given the release of information like this. Let me ask you this: 30 years from now if they declassified information that said they were testing shit on us right now would you really be surprised? To believe that our government learned it's lesson and doesn't do things like this any more is wishful thinking and especially naive considering the post 9-11 anything goes mentality in the intelligence cabal. I can only imagine their chemical arsenal has been enhanced and supplemented with technological weaponry geared towards mind alteration, espionage and behavior control/suppression. 

Quote:

Then she talks about how enlisted men volunteered to be injected with "over 150 different drugs" as if the CIA mixed 150 different psychoactive drugs together and started giving out party shots.




They used a wide variety of drugs, that's what I understood her to be saying and it's true they did use a huge list of varying chemicals individually on different test subjects. You're misunderstanding if you think she was saying they were dosed with all 150 at the same time I'm not sure how you could jump to that conclusion. Esp when she talks about the data observed specifically in the LSD tests. You're reaching here.

Quote:

Pretty much just ignorant sensationalist "whistle-blowing" against operations which have been discontinued for decades and yielded very little useful tactical research.


For being sensationalist she sure left out some of the most sensationalist details of MK Ultra. They dosed LSD during Electroshock Therapy, Lobotomies - can you imagine a surgical instrument going into your brain's frontal lobe on LSD?

It's not as much of a whistle-blowing as it is a modern history lesson; news for some of us a review for the rest of us. The lesson in this story remains more valid today than ever. But I guess we should just assume it's all over and our government has matured to only care about our best interests and would NEVER EVER imperil the public's safety like that again. :rofl2:





First, I'd like to clarify that my main objection to the story is not the information it presents, but the manner in which the information is reported. It is misleading at best, propagandistic at worst.

Further, I would not be surprised if declassified or misplaced documents that were supposed to be destroyed indicate that similar trials have continued in black operations. My point of contention is that the newscaster is presenting the material in an extremely misleading way. To say that "The US military has been experimenting in some experiments of 'mind control' for decades that will blow your mind" implies that for the past few decades the US has been engaging in these acts and continues to do so. The verb tenses indicate that. It would be more accurately phrased as "The US military had been experimenting in some experiments of 'mind control' for decades that will blow your mind." Phrasing the verb tenses this way indicates that the experiments are in the past, and were performed over multiple decades. The questions that are posed about what the US is capable of now are poignant, but only speculative.

I'm also not misinterpreting what she's saying about the 150-plus psychoactive compounds that were experimented with. I know that the trials were scientific and limited in scope, but the way the story is presented, it leads an ignorant viewer to believe that the CIA was haphazardly dosing unknowing victims with massive combinations of drugs.

Additionally, she pulls the "Nazi" card and draws in an unrelated CIA operation called PAPERCLIP. The English arm of RT loves to poke at the Western hegemony and will use any slur to discredit it. Honestly, Russia is just jealous that the US captured and employed the majority of German nuclear and aerospace scientists as well as codebreakers and cipher machines before they did. Had the US not naturalized von Braun the Russians would have done the same to gain a headstart in the Cold War.

You're right in that it's basically a history lesson, however, it is not presented as such. I call it sensationalist "whistle-blowing" because the program makes itself appear is if it is leaking exclusive information about ongoing efforts into clandestine psychoactive drug experimentation. There is no evidence to support these ongoing efforts, but the story is swung in a way to guide unknowing viewers to falsely extrapolated conclusions. I've never read any documentation about those lobotomy procedures or the like that you mention, and there seems to be a lot of fake sensationalist information that has been generated about project MKUltra as well.

I guess you're right as well in the fact that this kind of stuff has never really been reported in the MSM. But there's plenty of unbiased information about it on the internet, it even has its own wikipedia page. I'd venture to say that the program has made it to the mainstream in other ways. Many modern television shows that involve special operations and the like (probably a huge % of modern cop TV now) often make reference to CIA mind control experiments or LSD testing. I've heard it most recently mentioned (past few months) on the US cable network shows Perception and Person of Interest, which are prime-time shows. The rising popular band Muse even has a song called MKUltra.

While I consider myself rather educated on the subject, I approached this report from a totally ignorant perspective and pointed out my contentions with the way their information is presented. In sensitive and technical areas like this, I like to consider what kind of impressions the ignorant (or perhaps decidedly ignorant) newscasters impart upon an equally ignorant viewer. I suppose that my main worry about this kind of reporting is that it certainly attracts the type of dissident paranoid mindset who get their information from alternative radio and TV news, all heavily filtered, and end up with skewed viewpoints on the nature covert operations. People like Alex Jones and news arms like RT are responsible for propagating this kind of mindset in people who don't care to do any further research than believing what they hear.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: mylfgur]
    #19407994 - 01/12/14 11:48 AM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:


First, I'd like to clarify that my main objection to the story is not the information it presents, but the manner in which the information is reported. It is misleading at best, propagandistic at worst.





I understand why you would draw those conclusions. RT has it's own pro Kremlin angle, I get that, but I don't feel the information here is particularly misleading just an incomplete picture. The presentation is terse and the information given barely scratches the surface; insultingly watered down for the short attention spans of an audience that is constantly being bombarded with information. I agree with you that this could fall under the label of propaganda and she is leaving out the details of the same kind of experiments the Soviets did with psychedelics.
Quote:

Additionally, she pulls the "Nazi" card and draws in an unrelated CIA operation called PAPERCLIP.



The data uncovered during operation Paperclip was the inspiration behind projects like Chatter and Bluebird. These were the direct predecessors to MK Ultra. Similar to an MK ultra beta version.
  One of the Nazi officers granted immunity by the CIA during Paperclip was Josef Mengele. Mengele had carried out all kinds of experiments in camps on Jews, Romas, and political enemies with a variety of chemicals including Mescaline. The collective data of these Nazi scientists' experiments prompted the Navy to hire Charles Savage to to start experimenting with mescaline as truth serum in operation Chatter. That same year, 1947, was when major publications on human trials in LSD were published by Werner Stoll at Sandoz.
  LSD was so remarkably close to mescaline in effects profile they formed Operation Bluebird to gather the intelligence on it in Basel, then once they had enough preliminary information Allen Dulles gave them the go ahead to form MK Ultra. Yeah RT pulled the Nazi card (those sneaky Russians) but we have to realize it was the Nazis that inspired the US military to start experimenting with hallucinogens as a weapon in the first place.
Quote:

The English arm of RT loves to poke at the Western hegemony and will use any slur to discredit it. Honestly, Russia is just jealous that the US captured and employed the majority of German nuclear and aerospace scientists as well as codebreakers and cipher machines before they did. Had the US not naturalized von Braun the Russians would have done the same to gain a headstart in the Cold War.



I agree RT definitely is out to discredit the western power structure and yeah Russia was definitely pissed they didn't get the Nazi goods :grin:.

Quote:

People like Alex Jones and news arms like RT are responsible for propagating this kind of mindset in people who don't care to do any further research than believing what they hear.


Alex Jones definitely is irresponsible in the way he frames his stories but I have to give it to RT even though they are pro-kremlin they seem to have at least a slightly more objective approach than Alex Jones. I would liken RT to Democracy Now with an edgier more anti-western perspective. Alex Jones is just a shill man. I agree the type of thinking he promotes is irrational and counter-productive to finding the truth but I don't lump RT in with clowns like him and Jesse Ventura.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: RT News exposes MK ULTRA / LSD experiments on victims [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #19408127 - 01/12/14 12:22 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

mylfgur said:


First, I'd like to clarify that my main objection to the story is not the information it presents, but the manner in which the information is reported. It is misleading at best, propagandistic at worst.





I understand why you would draw those conclusions. RT has it's own pro Kremlin angle, I get that, but I don't feel the information here is particularly misleading just an incomplete picture. The presentation is terse and the information given barely scratches the surface; insultingly watered down for the short attention spans of an audience that is constantly being bombarded with information. I agree with you that this could fall under the label of propaganda and she is leaving out the details of the same kind of experiments the Soviets did with psychedelics.
Quote:

Additionally, she pulls the "Nazi" card and draws in an unrelated CIA operation called PAPERCLIP.



The data uncovered during operation Paperclip was the inspiration behind projects like Chatter and Bluebird. These were the direct predecessors to MK Ultra. Similar to an MK ultra beta version.
  One of the Nazi officers granted immunity by the CIA during Paperclip was Josef Mengele. Mengele had carried out all kinds of experiments in camps on Jews, Romas, and political enemies with a variety of chemicals including Mescaline. The collective data of these Nazi scientists' experiments prompted the Navy to hire Charles Savage to to start experimenting with mescaline as truth serum in operation Chatter. That same year, 1947, was when major publications on human trials in LSD were published by Werner Stoll at Sandoz.
  LSD was so remarkably close to mescaline in effects profile they formed Operation Bluebird to gather the intelligence on it in Basel, then once they had enough preliminary information Allen Dulles gave them the go ahead to form MK Ultra. Yeah RT pulled the Nazi card (those sneaky Russians) but we have to realize it was the Nazis that inspired the US military to start experimenting with hallucinogens as a weapon in the first place.
Quote:

The English arm of RT loves to poke at the Western hegemony and will use any slur to discredit it. Honestly, Russia is just jealous that the US captured and employed the majority of German nuclear and aerospace scientists as well as codebreakers and cipher machines before they did. Had the US not naturalized von Braun the Russians would have done the same to gain a headstart in the Cold War.



I agree RT definitely is out to discredit the western power structure and yeah Russia was definitely pissed they didn't get the Nazi goods :grin:.

Quote:

People like Alex Jones and news arms like RT are responsible for propagating this kind of mindset in people who don't care to do any further research than believing what they hear.


Alex Jones definitely is irresponsible in the way he frames his stories but I have to give it to RT even though they are pro-kremlin they seem to have at least a slightly more objective approach than Alex Jones. I would liken RT to Democracy Now with an edgier more anti-western perspective. Alex Jones is just a shill man. I agree the type of thinking he promotes is irrational and counter-productive to finding the truth but I don't lump RT in with clowns like him and Jesse Ventura.




:kaneclap:

Excellent post, ShroomDoom. I was unaware of project CHATTER. It does appear that CHATTER and PAPERCLIP are related but I maintain that in the context of this RT program, it's "pulling the Nazi card."

I as well like that you noted
Quote:

she is leaving out the details of the same kind of experiments the Soviets did with psychedelics




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