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Offlinefizzbin
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My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled
    #19398433 - 01/10/14 11:10 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

My bulk subs:

prep:
Sawdust: 6 cups pellets + 7 boiling cups water
Woodchips: Smoker wood chips place in boiling water and let sit for 24 hours
Coir: Boiling water then squeezed until no more water would come out

Shiitake:
Sawdust
1/4th to 1/3rd (eye balled)
1tbs bran per bag
1tbs gypsum

Oyster:
30% coffee grounds
30% sawdust
20% ripped up cardboard
20% Cior
1tbs gypsum per bag

Pressure cooked at 15PSI for 2 hours.

Shiitake was inoculated with 1/5th a quart jar of wheat berries. The oyster got 1/2 pint quart jar.

I suspect there in is my problem. I thought I read those figures from RR some where but I'm failing to recall where. Are they under supplemented? Can I add more grain and remix to bring them back? Was it possibly lack of oxygen? I didn't notice but I had left the bags very deflated. I had to pull the sides out and they slowly sucked in oxygen through the filter patch.

They were inoculated on 12/21/13 (20 days ago)

Oyster bag is on the right, shiitake on the left. The yellowing on the oyster mycelium is recent. The humidity inside the bags seems to of appeared around when they stalled.

They're kept inside a dark closet inside a house with a thermostat set to 72(d)F



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[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19398617 - 01/10/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

difficult to see from the photos, but the shiitake look reasonable.  the oysters are hard to make out.

generally stalling is due to contaminants or lack of air exchange, low nutrients will not cause the mycelium to stop growing.

can you smell anything like a sweet or sour smell coming from the bags.

where did you get your spawn from?


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19398632 - 01/10/14 11:55 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I tried to take some better photos. First two are shiitake, second two are oyster.



--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineJeff
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19398806 - 01/10/14 12:32 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

They look a little wet and.....disturbed...?

Have you been breaking it up as it is trying to colonize?


--------------------
Myco-tek


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Jeff]
    #19398855 - 01/10/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

When they only showed signs of growth on the top and little/no progress on the bottom, I pried them off figuring it was an air thing.

I crumbled a bag of each a few days ago just to see how they'd respond, but that was not one of these.

I cut one open and it smelt like shiitakes and sawdust. Nothing sweet or sour.



--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19400323 - 01/10/14 05:26 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

What should I alter in my procedure for my next set of bags?


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineJeff
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19400953 - 01/10/14 08:11 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Make sure you mix your spawn well in the sub.  It will colonize more evenly. 
I have never messed with a bag once it was spawned even if it was colonizing uneven.  Every time you do it damages the mycelium and it takes time for it to recover which gives a chance for contamination to take hold.


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Myco-tek


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Jeff]
    #19401221 - 01/10/14 09:13 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Jeff said:
Make sure you mix your spawn well in the sub.  It will colonize more evenly. 
I have never messed with a bag once it was spawned even if it was colonizing uneven.  Every time you do it damages the mycelium and it takes time for it to recover which gives a chance for contamination to take hold.




How much grain do you add per bag for shiitake/oyster?


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineJeff
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19401232 - 01/10/14 09:16 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

350 grams or so max.


--------------------
Myco-tek


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Jeff]
    #19404345 - 01/11/14 03:20 PM (10 years, 19 days ago)

I was using "lil devil's" bbq pellets for sawdust which contain "Our special recipe of alder, apple, hickory, maple, mesquite, and other secret ingredients (proprietary woods)"

After doing some more research that may of been the issue. I've sources some douglas fir pellets and some compressed logs that are also additive free the lady believes are oak.

I'll be making a bag of each and a bag of them mixed tonight + using more grain spawn (yay, adjusting multiple variables!).


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19409378 - 01/12/14 05:42 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I suspect you were a little on the wet side and the bacteria took hold. Nothing wrong with ur recipe. Just go easier on the water. Jeff is right about disturbing sub. Exception is sra. Don't open any of the shiitake bags. Just give them more time.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19409458 - 01/12/14 05:58 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Jeff is right about disturbing sub. Exception is sra.




What's the exception with SRA?  Just curious I'm planning an outdoor bed of these.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineJeff
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Forrester]
    #19409464 - 01/12/14 06:00 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

They love to be bounced around.  If they stall a good shaking always reinvigorates them. 
Odd buggers.


--------------------
Myco-tek


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Forrester]
    #19409482 - 01/12/14 06:03 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Jeff is right about disturbing sub. Exception is sra.




What's the exception with SRA?  Just curious I'm planning an outdoor bed of these.



They also thrive in extremely high co2. We have had good luck taping over 3/4 of the filter patch on sawdust bags. Kept them from stalling.


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OfflineJeff
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19409489 - 01/12/14 06:06 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

That is interesting. 
I am about to sub out some SRA. Probably next weekend.  It is one of my failures in the past and I am anxious to try and fruit it indoors.


--------------------
Myco-tek


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Jeff]
    #19409536 - 01/12/14 06:18 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I'm gonna try a bed outside under my U-haul truck in spring, I got a lot more research to do.  Thanks for the info!


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Forrester]
    #19409892 - 01/12/14 07:56 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

I think you're right about the moisture.

The bottom part didn't colonize and I assumed it was a lack of air getting to them (why I disturbed them). But it could be because that's where the water flowed to.

I made some more bags yesterday and I after I made my sub the same, I tossed in a bunch of dry fuel pellets. After PCing, adding spawn, and shacking, they were gone. I assume they sucked up a bunch of the extra moisture.


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineJeff
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19409907 - 01/12/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

When I go back and look at your original recipe for the pellets you are using about 3/8th of a cup water more than I typically do.


--------------------
Myco-tek


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19409977 - 01/12/14 08:18 PM (10 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

fizzbin said:
The bottom part didn't colonize and I assumed it was a lack of air getting to them (why I disturbed them). But it could be because that's where the water flowed to.




It is actually hard to tell the difference sometimes, but like Jeff said in this case, probably too much moisture.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Forrester]
    #19427889 - 01/16/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)



The oyster bag I opened to examine started fruiting... then some others started fruiting in the bag!

I cut the tops off and turned them all on their sides. I'll catch this earlier and cut X's into the bag's side on later ones. Bottoms never 100% colonized but I'm ok with that :smile:

I'm keeping them all near the unzipped front of the green house to get lots of FAE.

Some googling shows RR saying 5micron filters on bags are likely to be enough FAE to fruit in the bags, so I ordered some .2micron filter bags.


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19428641 - 01/16/14 03:18 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

.2 microns is enough ge for oysters and most others to fruit in the bag.


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19431149 - 01/16/14 11:26 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Is there anyway to stop them from fruiting in the bag?

I put tape over 80% of the filter patch on my nearly ready bags.


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19433847 - 01/17/14 03:49 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

About the only way I know of is to throw them in the fridge.  Even that won't stop oysters but it does slow them down.


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Jeff]
    #19437484 - 01/18/14 11:51 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

I think these ones might be small but done? I couldn't find tons of info about when to harvest oysters. Is it when the cap starts to turn upward that they're on the later-edge of harvest time?

Because there's sawdust in the substrate, only do a 1 hour dunk after harvest?



--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19437890 - 01/18/14 01:21 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Yeah that closer block looks about ready to me, I'd probably harvest those today :crazy2:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinefizzbin
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: Forrester]
    #19497826 - 01/30/14 05:58 PM (10 years, 19 hours ago)

I've done several more generations of bags since these and my big issues were:

* Not using enough spawn. I was using about 2 ounces per 2lb bag (~6%), now I'm using ~20%.
* Not using enough bran. I was using a few tbs of bran per bag. Stamets recommends 40% bran of the sawdust mass. This seems accepted around here for all but shiitake. I'm trying 10% with my latest shiitake. I'll drop that depending on mutants.
* Too much moisture. I was going with 7 cups waters to 6 cups pellets. Ideally I'll iron these down to relative percents based on mass, not volume, but I'm using about 1:1 pellets:water per volume now, and an added 60% of the bran mass in water.

My latest bags have seemed much healthier, but of course the real measure is the mass and quality of the fruits, which remains to be seen :smile:


--------------------
[quote]It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.[/quote]
[cite]-- Carl Sagan[/cite]


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: My first shiitake and oyster bags stalled [Re: fizzbin]
    #19499180 - 01/30/14 10:55 PM (10 years, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

fizzbin said:
* Too much moisture. I was going with 7 cups waters to 6 cups pellets. Ideally I'll iron these down to relative percents based on mass, not volume, but I'm using about 1:1 pellets:water per volume now, and an added 60% of the bran mass in water.




This was what I discovered as well, I've had much better luck with 6 cups pellets to 5.5 cups water, it's been about perfect for me.  Of course when you're adding bran it will be different...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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